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Also hi Cypher!
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Aug 14, 2019 14:26
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so that Xavier/Magneto/Moira scene just raises even more questions about how exactly this retcon fits into the past 45 years of X-continuity, but there are still eight issues left
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Aug 14, 2019 16:19
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Barry Convex posted:so that Xavier/Magneto/Moira scene just raises even more questions about how exactly this retcon fits into the past 45 years of X-continuity, but there are still eight issues left Yeah, that seems to place it squarely in AU territory, which instantly makes it a bit less interesting. Like it's no longer "how is this going to mesh with what we know?" and is more "oh, so this is just all new stuff that's essentially a universe reboot even if it sticks".
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Aug 14, 2019 16:40
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I think they are hinting in rather unsubtle ways at some heavy-handed uses of telepathy being involved here, which is part of what you'd need to make things consistent. Also, given that they introduced the concept of multiple lives...not all of these flashbacks (or flashforwards) might be from the latest or current one.
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Aug 14, 2019 16:40
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I haven't seen it mentioned, but do we know why certain books are in a red banner while most are in a black banner on the Reading Order at the back of each book? This is the first time I have given a poo poo about the X-Men in since Morrison's run.
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Aug 14, 2019 16:41
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enigmahfc posted:I haven't seen it mentioned, but do we know why certain books are in a red banner while most are in a black banner on the Reading Order at the back of each book? I believe it's meant to indicate those red entries are going to be very important issues. Like House of X #2 with the Moira reveal.
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Aug 14, 2019 16:42
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This is insane and making me want to hit up my LCS since forever. Also it's a breath of fresh fuckin air compared to how poo poo like Darkseid War/Doomsday Clock ran at DC
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Aug 14, 2019 16:50
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i know comic book time is always silly but reading through claremont’s run right now and how it handles time makes the idea of the x-men only having been around for 10 years as of now feel very very silly
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Aug 14, 2019 16:55
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Parallax posted:i know comic book time is always silly but reading through claremont’s run right now and how it handles time makes the idea of the x-men only having been around for 10 years as of now feel very very silly The New Mutants explicitly went to see ET at the theater and watched Magnum PI on tv.
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Aug 14, 2019 17:13
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Beerdeer posted:The New Mutants explicitly went to see ET at the theater and watched Magnum PI on tv. it's less cultural stuff like this (although i was thinking, if its only been ten years then colossus would come from a completely different russia, and would probably be quite a different character,) and more the idea that a character like kitty who joins the x-men when she's 13.5 but is now written like she's in her late 20s early 30s? when generously she should be like, 19-20 years old
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Aug 14, 2019 17:41
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Parallax posted:it's less cultural stuff like this (although i was thinking, if its only been ten years then colossus would come from a completely different russia, and would probably be quite a different character,) and more the idea that a character like kitty who joins the x-men when she's 13.5 but is now written like she's in her late 20s early 30s? when generously she should be like, 19-20 years old Kitty is like 24 at the oldest, maybe even younger. I'm pretty sure all the O5 are only like 28ish at this point. Kitty in particular is kind of weird because she was aging pretty consistently for a while, and then hit 18 and everything just slowed the gently caress down.
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Aug 14, 2019 17:58
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Rochallor posted:Kitty is like 24 at the oldest, maybe even younger. I'm pretty sure all the O5 are only like 28ish at this point. Yes, I realize this means Kitty aged like 15 years in Hickman's 10 year timeline.
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Aug 14, 2019 18:35
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Kind of weird for that dude to be so casually, indiscriminately murderous when talked back to, and still have people ready to talk back to him.
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Aug 14, 2019 18:39
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Emma Frost also was made canonically 27 at some point which makes Kitty's age even more complicated. Never list ages, comics.
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Aug 14, 2019 18:45
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To be fair Emma Frost is the kind of person who is 27 for a decade
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Aug 14, 2019 18:54
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At noon on her birthday, Emma always takes a couple of hours to mind-control someone at the Pentagon into altering all her records so she was born a year later.
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Aug 14, 2019 19:01
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In regards to the 616 in general, Spider-Man and the Fantastic Four got their powers around the same time as the events of Uncanny X-Men Vol 1 Issue 1. Peter Parker was definitely 15 when he got bit by a radioactive spider and he's still definitely under 30. It's really just one of those things you can't think too much about. Early issues of F4 make it clear Reed Richards and Ben Grimm are veterans of WW2,.
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Aug 14, 2019 19:36
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So in relation to the chart at the end, isn’t that a bit of a retcon? Like it says Technarcs are lead by a Magus and think they are the only big deals and don’t know about the Phalanax. Who are their creators. But wasn’t it originally the other way around? That the Technarcs created the Phalanax as their smaller, dumber kids. Like it was a plot point in Annihilation Conquest. Is this a Geoff Johns level of retcon? (“She wasn’t jailbait! She was super old by our standards!”)
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Aug 14, 2019 19:38
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The Question IRL posted:So in relation to the chart at the end, isn’t that a bit of a retcon? It's not being used to excuse an adult loving a child, so it's definitely not a Geoff Johns level retcon.
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Aug 14, 2019 19:43
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Android Blues posted:Yeah, that seems to place it squarely in AU territory, which instantly makes it a bit less interesting. Like it's no longer "how is this going to mesh with what we know?" and is more "oh, so this is just all new stuff that's essentially a universe reboot even if it sticks". Why they would need to bide for that time...who knows.
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Aug 14, 2019 20:24
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BrianWilly posted:An easy way I can see this being relevant in current continuity is for Xavier to have placed a mental block on both himself, Magneto, and Moira so that they don't remember any of this...until the time comes that they should.
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Aug 14, 2019 20:50
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Aren’t we making a critical assumption here? That Power of X Timeline 1,2,3 and 4 all occur after each other. That Timeline 3 happens 100 years after Timeline 2 and so forth. What if...the timelines are not connected. That maybe Timeline 1 is from Moria life 10 (or her possible 11th life) and Timeline 2 is from her 6th life. In which case all we know could be up in the air.
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Aug 14, 2019 20:50
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The Question IRL posted:Arent we making a critical assumption here? It could be that but the name "Powers of X" and how the timelines are "named" seem to imply these are all, well, the X timeline. Ten to the power of 0 is the first year, etc. Plus that conversation between Cyke, Magnus and Xavier mentions project NIMROD, and we know Nimrod is a thing that began a "machine-men alliance" or whatever. (I assume we don't use spoilers here? Yell at me if this should be spoilered)
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Aug 14, 2019 22:07
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It's been argued thar the Magneto, Xavier and Moira scene isn't really a problem if it is understood as set around the transition that led to his redemption arc under Claremont, which was somewhere between Uncanny #150 and 200. He does start to hang out with the X-Men and New Mutants during that era, more or less, until what we see in those first issues of X-Men (1991). wielder fucked around with this message at 22:33 on Aug 14, 2019 |
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Aug 14, 2019 22:29
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Like I said above, there are still eight issues to go, but I do hope we get some answers as to who did/didn’t have foreknowledge of which events, and how/why that did/didn’t shape previously published stories, sooner rather than later. (and I don’t expect or demand this retcon to be consistent with every single previously published story, but those are big and obvious questions that need something in the way of answers)
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Aug 14, 2019 22:53
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I'm not too worried about the exact metaphysical events eventually making sense...it's Hickman, he tends to find a way to make it work somehow (remember the flips and turns that the whole "Rabum Alal" mystery took). I am still a bit concerned about the more human elements being sidelined, or at least not really highlighted, by all the big poo poo happening, which is absolutely a danger with Hickman. We still don't know why this whole Krakoan mutant unity thing even works. What about mutants with human friends and family, like Jubilee and Shogo, and Northstar and his husband, and the remaining -- I dunno -- ten or eleven Guthries? Do they just...not see each other again? It feels like a big issue to have to tackle, but with the following issues all probably having to deal with the Mother Mold thing I don't know how we'll have the space to tackle it.
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Aug 14, 2019 23:25
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Parallax posted:it's less cultural stuff like this (although i was thinking, if its only been ten years then colossus would come from a completely different russia, and would probably be quite a different character,) and more the idea that a character like kitty who joins the x-men when she's 13.5 but is now written like she's in her late 20s early 30s? when generously she should be like, 19-20 years old Maybe X1 is 15-20 years after X0 but he just rounded to the nearest power of 10. X3 probably isn't exactly 1000 years after X0 either.
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Aug 15, 2019 01:07
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BrianWilly posted:I'm not too worried about the exact metaphysical events eventually making sense...it's Hickman, he tends to find a way to make it work somehow (remember the flips and turns that the whole "Rabum Alal" mystery took). Not all mutants are affiliated with Krakoa and I imagine they have elected to stay at home. And I would also guess that not all mutants living on the island are true believers like Magneto and don't think they're gods, the probably just want to live somewhere mutants can have a culture. I don't think Magneto and Xavier require complete isolation and denies them interacting with the outside world considering Scott was more or less friendly with the FF. Of course it won't go well for mutants living on the outside considering the humans will undoubtedly escalate matters and non-krakoan mutants won't be safe at all unless they go live there.
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Aug 15, 2019 01:19
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I would imagine the plan is to explore most of the human consequences during the Wave 1 books, including Hickman's own titles. Right now, this initial HOX/POX period is basically all about starting in media res, letting us ask questions while giving only a few answers, and ultimately making a big splash to get readers hooked.
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Aug 15, 2019 01:34
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The Question IRL posted:So in relation to the chart at the end, isn’t that a bit of a retcon? Skwirl posted:It's not being used to excuse an adult loving a child, so it's definitely not a Geoff Johns level retcon. The whole "Arisa isn't technically a teenager" thing originated with Steve Englehart, not Geoff Johns. As for the Technarchs/Phalanx, the whole thing is kind of a retcon but in general the backstory of the Techno-Organic Peoples is a mess. I might be missing some recent retcons but at least initially the set-up of the Technarchy was: It's been established that the Technarchs replicate themselves asexually and then fight their offspring to the death as soon as they emerge from the "creche". They feed by infecting living things with the transmode virus and absorbing all of their life energy. Their whole thing is very Kill or Be Killed, Destroy Everyone Else. Despite there being references from the outset to Magus/Warlock's homeworld (Kvch) and Magus being the ruler of it and there being all sorts of other Sire/Offsprings, as best as I can tell we've never actually seen any members of the Technarchy outside of Magus and Warlock. Plus I guess whatever you want to call the various versions of Douglock, and Warlock's own kid from Annihilation Conquest. Meanwhile the Phalanx have always been portrayed as basically the Borg type assimilation/control type hiveminds. It's all kind of messy since they were originally like... I don't even know. I am literally reading through the Phalanx Covenant and it's such a mess of words; even the title of the crossover is because they refer to groups of the Phalanx as "Covens of Phalanx" so like... a Covenant is like a BIG Coven, right? And they keep talking about Carbonite as a term for humans/biological life even though that's not what carbonite is either. Originally the Phalanx were supposed to be a new form of Sentinel made by Cameron Hodge (and Steven Lang) after Hodge had like uh... stolen... or cloned... or somethinged Warlock's powers during X-Tinction Agenda, and they were converting humans over into like half-human half-Technarch mutant killers who for some reason couldn't assimilate mutants (except for the ones they could) but when they started making a bigger collective hive they had the urge to create spires to alert all of their brethren to come help them strip Earth of resources/knowledge by assimilating the whole planet. So what that means for their relationship I have no idea. It honestly makes more sense for the Phalanx (who want to assimilate/absorb the entire universe) to create/manipulate the Technarch (who only want to kill everyone, including their own offspring to prove their might) than vice versa, but it's been forever since I read Conquest so maybe they explain it better there.
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Aug 15, 2019 02:04
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Parallax posted:i know comic book time is always silly but reading through claremont’s run right now and how it handles time makes the idea of the x-men only having been around for 10 years as of now feel very very silly Claremont's run actually proceeds through time in a more or less linear fashion, and it's a breath of fresh air. This was before the sliding timescale had really hit Marvel in a big way - in the early 80s especially, they were only twenty years out from the first Marvel comics, and you already had things like Peter Parker no longer being a teenager, etc. Writers could still have their characters age and move through different life stages, because the issues with long-running comic book continuity hadn't really become apparent yet. Claremont was reportedly trying to do the same sort of thing with the Cyclops/Madelyne Pryor plot, but got steered away from it by editorial. Which is a shame, because that turn really does a number on Scott's character. But yeah, I feel like you're better off just ignoring specific time than saying, "oh, all the stuff that happened between now and the first X-Men comic took ten years".
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Aug 15, 2019 02:13
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Which, incidentally, would mean that Scott and Jean and Hank et al. were all, like...26? Which is a fully wild age for these hardened revolutionary leaders who have had kids, died several times (sometimes for a large portion of those ten years!) and between them committed multiple genocides.
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Aug 15, 2019 02:18
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Android Blues posted:Claremont was reportedly trying to do the same sort of thing with the Cyclops/Madelyne Pryor plot, but got steered away from it by editorial. Which is a shame, because that turn really does a number on Scott's character. Yeah, he's said before that the reasoning behind shuffling Scott off to Alaska, and why the original ending to the Dark Phoenix Saga was to have Scott and Jean retire together, was that he thought the characters needed to gracefully retire and let younger characters take the reins. If he'd had his way, the New Mutants would've been wave one of a steady cycle of protagonists who'd come to the fore, then move out.
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Aug 15, 2019 03:03
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Wanderer posted:Yeah, he's said before that the reasoning behind shuffling Scott off to Alaska, and why the original ending to the Dark Phoenix Saga was to have Scott and Jean retire together, was that he thought the characters needed to gracefully retire and let younger characters take the reins. If he'd had his way, the New Mutants would've been wave one of a steady cycle of protagonists who'd come to the fore, then move out. The naivity of a young Claremont... I'm still convinced these time periods aren't all the same universe/MoiraLife. There was a theory getting passed around Twitter that specially calls out some good evidence that at least one of them matches up with a MoiraLife that isn't X, which is what I think everyone is generally assuming is what we're seeing. BrianWilly posted:I am still a bit concerned about the more human elements being sidelined, or at least not really highlighted, by all the big poo poo happening, which is absolutely a danger with Hickman. I've been a Hickman fanboy since The Nightly News. He's the obvious heir apparent to Ellis' break-poo poo-with-the-biggest-ideas-you-can style of writing and world-building. I think he has the capacity to do deeper human elements (EoW might be the best example) but... that's really not his thing. That's part of the reason why I'm so onboard with all of this: Marvel is letting him do his biggest-idea-he-can thing to set the table and then- as far as I can tell- oversee the big ideas for a while. It sounds like he's going to operate as a sort of "show runner" with Dawn of X, which I think is a unique way for a Big 2 to handle a property like this. And I don't know I'd trust anyone other than Hickman to do it well.
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Aug 15, 2019 03:40
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Did they tell Morrison they would have his back after his changes in New X-men or did he just write the story he wanted to write and then crossed his fingers that it all wouldn't get retconned to poo poo?
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Aug 15, 2019 03:54
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CubanMissile posted:Did they tell Morrison they would have his back after his changes in New X-men or did he just write the story he wanted to write and then crossed his fingers that it all wouldn't get retconned to poo poo? Maybe they looked at the end of his run and thought "huh, this kinda loving sucked." HOT TAKE: The best part of Morrison's run was all the stuff with the kids and Jason Aaron took those ideas- and more- and did them better in Wolvie and the X-Men. Though I'm still annoyed that they hosed over Beak so much.
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Aug 15, 2019 03:58
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CubanMissile posted:Did they tell Morrison they would have his back after his changes in New X-men or did he just write the story he wanted to write and then crossed his fingers that it all wouldn't get retconned to poo poo? Morrison pretty much said that he expected it to get retconned eventually and not to worry too much about it, because that’s comics.
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Aug 15, 2019 04:29
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BrianWilly posted:An easy way I can see this being relevant in current continuity is for Xavier to have placed a mental block on both himself, Magneto, and Moira so that they don't remember any of this...until the time comes that they should. I kind of like the idea of the time-release memories in theory, but yeah, I highly doubt you could come up with a why that isn't completely stupid, especially since Professor X and Magneto now know all of these futures, and since the flashes of Moira's fourth life strongly resemble the current continuity. Like, imagine Charles just going "listen Moira, I know you've showed us how these alternate plans for our futures won't ensure the survival of our race, but see, I really liked the look of that one where Erik and I fight each other for about a decade. I think it's crucial that our species is driven to near-extinction by Erik's adopted daughter, and that I die at the hand of one of my most beloved students. That's the only way I can see this utopia happening..."
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Aug 15, 2019 05:42
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I’m of the mind that the future stuff is part of Life Nine. While trying to see if any of the society symbols matched with the Moira timelines (I got nothing), I did notice that Life One is the only one with a circle in the timeline, but I guess that’s to be expected.
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Aug 15, 2019 06:08
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CubanMissile posted:Did they tell Morrison they would have his back after his changes in New X-men or did he just write the story he wanted to write and then crossed his fingers that it all wouldn't get retconned to poo poo? I'm pretty sure the only thing he really wanted them to stick with was Scott and Emma staying together.
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Aug 15, 2019 06:18
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