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Jarmak posted:Basically "if something happens you're liable because you created the dangerous situation so it's your affirmative responsibility to make sure nothing happens, no negligence needs to be shown". In the case of guns it would mean a gun owner would be responsible for whatever their gun does, even if it's stolen. You had me up until here. I’m ok with some dumbass who leaves guns lying around in plain view or not securing them adequately getting held accountable after they got stolen, but what about someone whose durable wall-mounted safe gets taken (along with a chunk of wall), therefore allowing the thieves all the time in the world to cut into it and defeat any other measures they may have in place? Would Person 2 deserve to be held to the same standard as the first?
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Aug 16, 2019 01:17
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Looks like Epstein managed to break a couple bones in his neck while he was committing suicide while the guards slept.
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Aug 16, 2019 01:19
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Arven posted:In PA you pay your local sheriff 15$, pinky swear you don't have a criminal record, write down three character references that they don't call, and walk out with a license. Takes 10 minutes. During that 15m- 4 month process, they run a PICS check. The safest, and easiest way to find out if your criminal history precludes you is to apply for a CCW. I mean, you should know, but there are weird cases. The first day of gunsmith school, they spend a few hours teaching you how to clear the most common types of guns you'll come across as a Smith. We all found it kinda funny to spend 30 minutes on clearing Glocks, but it's whatever. We figured since there is an interview process, they weed out weird poo poo. The instructor then explains that until a relatively recent change, they had international students. They also had accepted a kid from NYC who never held a real gun in his life- he learned everything he could from studying, watching videos, and playing with airsoft clones.
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Aug 16, 2019 01:23
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pantslesswithwolves posted:You had me up until here. I’m ok with some dumbass who leaves guns lying around in plain view or not securing them adequately getting held accountable after they got stolen, but what about someone whose durable wall-mounted safe gets taken (along with a chunk of wall), therefore allowing the thieves all the time in the world to cut into it and defeat any other measures they may have in place? Would Person 2 deserve to be held to the same standard as the first? According to most gun banners, yes, because Person 2 committed the sin of owning guns in the first place and LOL PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF A GUN IS A HUGE PUBLIC RISK AUTOMATICALLY ONCE YOU TAKE OWNERSHIP OF ONE
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Aug 16, 2019 01:24
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Bored As gently caress posted:According to most gun banners, yes, because Person 2 committed the sin of owning guns in the first place and LOL PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF A GUN IS A HUGE PUBLIC RISK AUTOMATICALLY ONCE YOU TAKE OWNERSHIP OF ONE 
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Aug 16, 2019 01:27
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Bored As gently caress posted:According to most gun banners, yes, because Person 2 committed the sin of owning guns in the first place and LOL PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF A GUN IS A HUGE PUBLIC RISK AUTOMATICALLY ONCE YOU TAKE OWNERSHIP OF ONE How do we not have a strawman emote?
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Aug 16, 2019 01:28
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Straws are banned in California... no strawmen there.
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Aug 16, 2019 01:28
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Bored As gently caress posted:According to most gun banners, yes, because Person 2 committed the sin of owning guns in the first place and LOL PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF A GUN IS A HUGE PUBLIC RISK AUTOMATICALLY ONCE YOU TAKE OWNERSHIP OF ONE This but unironically.
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Aug 16, 2019 01:31
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ZombieApostate posted:How do we not have a strawman emote? Fallom posted:This but unironically. See? I'm not talking out of my rear end. I've had MANY conversations with people who say poo poo like that. Many anti gun organizations want to demonize gun ownership, and they've literally said they want guns to go the way of cigarettes in terms of public image, increased regulation, etc. Many anti gun people argue that more guns = more crime. Many also say they want to treat gun violence as a public health issue. The natural end of that argument is that any ownership of any firearm, even if it's a safe queen that never sees the light of day, or gets shot 15 times at the beginning of hunting season, automatically increases the danger to the public in the area.
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Aug 16, 2019 01:40
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Bored As gently caress posted:The natural end of that argument is that any ownership of any firearm, even if it's a safe queen that never sees the light of day, or gets shot 15 times at the beginning of hunting season, automatically increases the danger to the public in the area. Would you say that the public in the area would be more, or less in danger because there is a gun in the area? Even if it is a "Safe Queen" as you say. You don't get to pick the middle and say it doesn't change, because in one scenario there is no gun, and the other there is. Does the public danger increase or decrease due to a properly secured firearm in the area? orange juche fucked around with this message at 01:44 on Aug 16, 2019 |
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Aug 16, 2019 01:41
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Bored As gently caress posted:Many anti gun people argue that more guns = more crime. Many also say they want to treat gun violence as a public health issue. The natural end of that argument is that any ownership of any firearm, even if it's a safe queen that never sees the light of day, or gets shot 15 times at the beginning of hunting season, automatically increases the danger to the public in the area. Gun violence IS a public health issue. I'm not sure why you think it isn't.
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Aug 16, 2019 01:44
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Bored As gently caress posted:See? I'm not talking out of my rear end. I've had MANY conversations with people who say poo poo like that. Many anti gun organizations want to demonize gun ownership, and they've literally said they want guns to go the way of cigarettes in terms of public image, increased regulation, etc. Well yes, because poor bullied lil Timmy saw you hide the key and now his classmates are hosed. The only way to meaningfully make a dent in gun violence is to radically reduce the amount of guns in distribution. This is why I don't care if a new assault weapons ban won't cover everything. It'll cover some things, and reduce supply that way. It's just one part of a comprehsive whole to reduce gun ownership in America, and maybe, just maybe stop some of the pointless, wasteful deaths that have no real cause but our national cowardice.
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Aug 16, 2019 01:44
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Cat Army 
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Bored As gently caress posted:The natural end of that argument is that any ownership of any firearm, even if it's a safe queen that never sees the light of day, or gets shot 15 times at the beginning of hunting season, automatically increases the danger to the public in the area. Statistically it literally does.
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Aug 16, 2019 01:48
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Bored As gently caress posted:See? I'm not talking out of my rear end. I've had MANY conversations with people who say poo poo like that. Many anti gun organizations want to demonize gun ownership, and they've literally said they want guns to go the way of cigarettes in terms of public image, increased regulation, etc. Yes and?
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Aug 16, 2019 01:56
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Bored As gently caress posted:According to most gun banners, yes, because Person 2 committed the sin of owning guns in the first place and LOL PRIVATE OWNERSHIP OF A GUN IS A HUGE PUBLIC RISK AUTOMATICALLY ONCE YOU TAKE OWNERSHIP OF ONE If person 2's gun is used to murder people doesn't that defacto prove exactly that? pantslesswithwolves posted:You had me up until here. I’m ok with some dumbass who leaves guns lying around in plain view or not securing them adequately getting held accountable after they got stolen, but what about someone whose durable wall-mounted safe gets taken (along with a chunk of wall), therefore allowing the thieves all the time in the world to cut into it and defeat any other measures they may have in place? Would Person 2 deserve to be held to the same standard as the first? Realistically what would happen is owning a firearm would require insurance just like owning a car. Person two would pay a far lower premium on that insurance because they stored their guns in such a manner.
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Aug 16, 2019 01:57
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"Gun insurance" is a really great way to let America's racism turbo-gently caress minorities again. It's an insidiously genius idea; solves nothing, protects no one, fucks minorities.
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Aug 16, 2019 02:00
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bird food bathtub posted:"Gun insurance" is a really great way to let America's racism turbo-gently caress minorities again. It's an insidiously genius idea; solves nothing, protects no one, fucks minorities. I've not heard of it but if it also makes money while doing it I'm gonna finish
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Aug 16, 2019 02:04
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bird food bathtub posted:"Gun insurance" is a really great way to let America's racism turbo-gently caress minorities again. It's an insidiously genius idea; solves nothing, protects no one, fucks minorities. Right? OH THANK GOD THE GUN THAT MURDERED MY FAMILY MEMBER WAS INSURED AND I CAN GET $300,000 FOR MY LOSS
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Aug 16, 2019 02:14
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orange juche posted:Would you say that the public in the area would be more, or less in danger because there is a gun in the area? Even if it is a "Safe Queen" as you say. Unless you're in a legally-enforceable gun-free zone or in a handful of jurisdictions in the country, there's almost certainly a gun near you in any public place. Also, we tried a national assault weapons ban.
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Aug 16, 2019 02:23
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bird food bathtub posted:"Gun insurance" is a really great way to let America's racism turbo-gently caress minorities again. It's an insidiously genius idea; solves nothing, protects no one, fucks minorities. The "reasonable gun owners who support gun control" I've met generally refer to stuff like that as the "[n-word] tax" when they've been lured into a false sense of security by my scando-irish paleness. If you really want gun control, start forming left-wing gun clubs and repeating the same "second amendment solutions" rhetoric that the militia crowd did under Obama. Republicans will absolutely abandon the gun rights movement when that happens, just like back in the 70s and 80s when the NRA supported gun bans because the Black Panthers were protesting with rifles and there was the specter of "inner-city youth" buying full autos so they could out-gun the police and invade the suburbs via public transport. 
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Aug 16, 2019 02:23
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UP THE BUM NO BABY posted:Right? OH THANK GOD THE GUN THAT MURDERED MY FAMILY MEMBER WAS INSURED AND I CAN GET $300,000 FOR MY LOSS  The point isn't to give victims money (though it's a happy side effect), the point is to create a financial burden for not keeping guns secure.
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Aug 16, 2019 02:23
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UP THE BUM NO BABY posted:Right? OH THANK GOD THE GUN THAT MURDERED MY FAMILY MEMBER WAS INSURED AND I CAN GET $300,000 FOR MY LOSS I didn't even think of the payouts, I was looking at it from the other side of the exchange. It's always presented as some kind of invisible hand solution that just magics away all the problems because free market while not "infringing" anyone's "rights" and all I can ever think of is everyone darker than a paper bag trying to have the same rights in this magical free market wonder land and hearing, "Well based on your neighborhood, level of education, prior history and all these other completely neutral totally not-racist factors it's going to cost you twenty times as much as Whitey McDrivenSnow over here to have the same access to your rights."
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Aug 16, 2019 02:24
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C.M. Kruger posted:The "reasonable gun owners who support gun control" I've met generally refer to stuff like that as the "[n-word] tax" when they've been lured into a false sense of security by my scando-irish paleness. You hang out with assholes. I've literally never met anyone who said anything like that, and I've had gun friends for almost 20 years. I've only known a few "from my cold dead hands" types, and they were almost all 60+.
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Aug 16, 2019 02:25
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gently caress it then no guns for anyone
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Aug 16, 2019 02:28
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Bored As gently caress posted:
I feel like I say this every time it comes up, but my guy, this is exactly how most people outside the US think.
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Aug 16, 2019 02:28
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Jarmak posted:gently caress it then no guns for anyone I'm p cool with this
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Aug 16, 2019 02:32
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yeah lets make only rich people able to afford guns lmao
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Aug 16, 2019 02:35
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45 ACP CURES NAZIS posted:yeah lets make only rich people able to afford guns lmao Only the rich and the police. Because we trust them ITT.
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Aug 16, 2019 02:36
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Remove qualified immunity and let the free market decide insurance rates
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Aug 16, 2019 02:39
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hobbesmaster posted:Remove qualified immunity and let the free market decide insurance rates
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Aug 16, 2019 02:43
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Godholio posted:Only the rich and the police. Because we trust them ITT. Don’t forget Peter Thiel’s protection detail and Don Jr; I definitely trust them to responsibly use firearms!
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Aug 16, 2019 02:52
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A federal series of registration and background check requirements with mandatory training would solve a vast amount of problems. That’s literally it, make it a mild inconvenience to own a gun, a major one to own 50. Requirements would include a gun safe and re ups on training every few years like Australia. I’ll be buying a rifle soon for kangaroo hunting and it’s a fair investment of time and money but it means psychos like that guy who stabbed two people in Sydney two days ago can’t get one.
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Aug 16, 2019 02:57
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We already have a system in place in the US for tightly regulating certain firearms which someone suggested expanding right at the start of this two page argument.
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Aug 16, 2019 03:00
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C.M. Kruger posted:The "reasonable gun owners who support gun control" I've met generally refer to stuff like that as the "[n-word] tax" when they've been lured into a false sense of security by my scando-irish paleness. What do you do to these people when they say that? I sure hope you're recording on your phone so that you can send it to their work so they're fired.
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Aug 16, 2019 03:09
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Post deleted because answering it would only lead to cop chat.
piL fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Aug 16, 2019 |
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Aug 16, 2019 03:10
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Ah yes, the auto insurance model only allows rich people to have guns so instead we should *checks notes* require even more expensive gun safes. One of the biggest complaints against the NFA path is the expense making them unattainable by poor people. Y'all's goal of ending gun violence doesn't sync well with making sure poor and/or minority communities are flooded with guns in the name of equality. I said it before and it was flippant but not sarcastic, I'm loving fed up with there always being some reason why gun control measures that work everywhere else somehow won't work here. The time for compromising is over, gun owners (as a political force) have shown themselves incapable of being responsible stewards of this right. Repeal the second, go full UK/EU/Australia.
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Aug 16, 2019 03:25
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There's no reason the NFA path has to be expensive. Just scrap or reduce the fee, which only exists because it was intended to be prohibitively expensive when enacted. That's an incredibly silly argument against it.
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Aug 16, 2019 03:31
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ZombieApostate posted:I was listening to 1A 2 or 3 weeks ago where they were asking questions of a liberal and an independent voter, both from the midwest, iirc. They then had the Director from some conservative think tank there in studio as a third guest to poo poo all over both of them any time the two voters criticized anything Trump/Republicans were doing. As if pitting a professional republican against two average people wasn't slanted enough, the host made no attempt to challenge or contradict the think tank lady at any point. I used to listen to NPR all the time, but this hasn't been an isolated incident and now I have no interest. It's thinly veiled right wing radio with a peeling, moldy veneer of liberalism left over from the past. This is like iq2, which is basically just a rehashed cable-news style Firing Line show. That show is the epitome of overton-window-shifting both-sides bullshit.
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Aug 16, 2019 03:39
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how about people get to buy bullets with their EBT card
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Aug 16, 2019 03:50
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lol imagine trying to file a claim after surviving a mass shooting
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Aug 16, 2019 03:57
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