EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > EU Politics: I miss Renaults(don't make fun of me)

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Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

That's

, yes.

I assume Trump is vaguely familiar with the Louisiana Purchase and/or Alaska and got ideas in his head.

# ? Aug 16, 2019 17:32

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# ? May 24, 2024 01:25

I Love Annie May: Oct 10, 2012

Greenland should be an indipendent state anyways. There is no reason why it should remain a Danish colony.

# ? Aug 16, 2019 22:24

Cerv: Sep 14, 2004; This is a silly post with little news value.

I Love Annie May posted:

Greenland should be an indipendent state anyways. There is no reason why it should remain a Danish colony.

because the people of Greenland want to remain Danish?

# ? Aug 16, 2019 22:28

Baudolino: Apr 1, 2010; THUNDERDOME LOSER

Perhaps there are valuable minerals or fossil fuels locked under all that melting ice? That`s their best hope for one day becoming independent.

# ? Aug 16, 2019 22:33

No. 1 Callie Fan: Feb 17, 2011; This inkling is your FRIEND
She fights for LOVE

Baudolino posted:

Perhaps there are valuable minerals or fossil fuels locked under all that melting ice? That`s their best hope for one day becoming independent.

Those are just prerequisites for an US invasions. They'll just throw in some tale about Eskimo extremists threatening the US with weaponised icebergs and they'll be pumping Greenland full of freedom and liberty.

# ? Aug 17, 2019 06:05

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

I Love Annie May posted:

Greenland should be an indipendent state anyways. There is no reason why it should remain a Danish colony.

Cerv posted:

because the people of Greenland want to remain Danish?

It's official bilateral Danish-Greenlandic policy to work towards a point where Greenland decides it wants to go independent. A huge percentage of their current budget is subsidized by Denmark however, so even the more pro-independence politicians aren't in a hurry to leave.

No. 1 Callie Fan posted:

Those are just prerequisites for an US invasions. They'll just throw in some tale about Eskimo extremists threatening the US with weaponised icebergs and they'll be pumping Greenland full of freedom and liberty.

I said something similar six years ago in the politically loaded map thread, and was told Americans don't care about Greenland. Which I mean, yeah, that's why they'd take over - because it'd just be a nearly empty island full of mineral wealth. Greenland definitely deserves independence, but man do I not trust the US to respect a tiny state sitting on massive mineral wealth, given their track record with Native Americans and places with resources wealth. I guess they could join the EU as the smallest member state, assuming the Faroe Islands haven't already at that point.

# ? Aug 17, 2019 06:26

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

A Buttery Pastry posted:

I guess they could join the EU as the smallest member state, assuming the Faroe Islands haven't already at that point.

They've left the EEC (as an overseas territory of Denmark) over the common fisheries policy, so they'd need a reform of said policy, or at least some derogations and exemptions, before thinking about getting back in the EU. Fishing is their main industry so it's the main sticking point for them. Same for the Faroe Islands.

# ? Aug 17, 2019 12:07

A Buttery Pastry: Sep 4, 2011; Delicious and Informative!

Cat Mattress posted:

They've left the EEC (as an overseas territory of Denmark) over the common fisheries policy, so they'd need a reform of said policy, or at least some derogations and exemptions, before thinking about getting back in the EU. Fishing is their main industry so it's the main sticking point for them. Same for the Faroe Islands.

Fishing becoming a much smaller part of their economy seems to basically be a requirement for becoming independent in the first place though, so it might not matter as much in that scenario. Obviously there's some inertia that's gonna have it matter more in politics than it does in the economy, so a transition period where Greenland had exemptions on the common fisheries policy might be needed still.

# ? Aug 17, 2019 12:44

breadshaped: Apr 1, 2010; Soiled Meat

I would imagine having sovereignty over Greenland terrestrial and sea territories will become extremely valuable when the whole 'arctic ice' thing becomes history due to climate change?

# ? Aug 17, 2019 14:04

Owling Howl: Jul 17, 2019

Bedshaped posted:

I would imagine having sovereignty over Greenland terrestrial and sea territories will become extremely valuable when the whole 'arctic ice' thing becomes history due to climate change?

It certainly has strategic value but I'm not so sure about the economic potential.

# ? Aug 17, 2019 15:43

Slashrat: Jun 6, 2011; YOSPOS

There are a bunch of overlapping EEZ claims in the artic between Canada, Denmark (on behalf of Greenland), Norway and Russia that are currently pending resolution. (The US would probably have filed a claim as well, but haven't ratified the UN convention that would allow them to do so officially).

Depending on how the borders between these shake out, and the result of oil prospecting in the area, it could add significant economic potential to Greenland.

# ? Aug 17, 2019 16:04

Squalid: Nov 4, 2008

Owling Howl posted:

It certainly has strategic value but I'm not so sure about the economic potential.

Historically Denmark has just let the US put w/e radar or air force bases there that it wants anyway. Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?

I mean maybe US pays a lease but god this is just Trump�s famous real estate instincts kicking in, the same instinct that led to his half dozen bankruptcies.

# ? Aug 17, 2019 16:23

vuk83: Oct 9, 2012

Squalid posted:

Historically Denmark has just let the US put w/e radar or air force bases there that it wants anyway. Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?

I mean maybe US pays a lease but god this is just Trump’s famous real estate instincts kicking in, the same instinct that led to his half dozen bankruptcies.

During the cold war denmark had a significant defense underspend, but got a free pass cause thule

# ? Aug 17, 2019 19:43

Junior G-man: Sep 15, 2004; Wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

The UK's new leadership seems to be on to something ...

quote:

Boris Johnson claims he is 'confident' EU will shift its position on backstop
Boris Johnson has been speaking to broadcasters on a visit to the Royal Cornwall Hospital in Truro, where he has been promoting measures to increase the number of parents getting their children vaccinated. Here are the key points he has been making.

Johnson claimed he remained �confident� that the EU would shift its position on the Northern Ireland backstop, allowing a Brexit deal to be agreed before 31 October. Asked about planning for no deal, he said:

quote:
I�m not going to suggest that there won�t be - as I said on the steps of Downing Street - there may well be bumps in the road but we will be ready to come out on October 31 deal or no deal.

Now of course our friends and partners on the other side of the Channel are showing a little bit of reluctance at the moment to change their position.

That�s fine - I�m confident that they will - but in the meantime we have to get ready for a no deal outcome.

I want a deal. We�re ready to work with our friends and partners to get a deal but if you want a good deal for the UK, you must simultaneously get ready to come out without one.

It is hard to see why Johnson is confident that the EU will back down because European leaders have been saying, almost unanimously and ad nauseam, that they are not willing to renegotiate the withdrawal agreement.

Or, you know, possibly, not.

# ? Aug 19, 2019 13:04

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

The EU cannot legally drop the backstop.

But the good news is, the backstop is only a "plan B" measure, a just-in-case thing, in the extremely unlikely case where the brain geniuses in Great Britain would be unable to come up with a workable solution during the transition period.

The only way you can justify being so opposed to the backstop that it's the one thing preventing ratification of the withdrawal agreement is if you know that it is absolutely impossible to come up with a workable solution, and still think reneging on the Good Friday Agreement is a good idea that Britain should do.

Cat Mattress fucked around with this message at 13:20 on Aug 19, 2019

# ? Aug 19, 2019 13:16

Junior G-man: Sep 15, 2004; Wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

Nah, you just have to have genuine faith that the EU is bad, UK is good, and any form of tether (however reasonable and far-off in practice) ties the bad EU to the good UK, causing it to be bad too.

I genuinely think you can only understand a whole bunch of the UK Brexiteers if you accept that they have doctrine and faith, and that they consider any diminution of that faith to be heresy that must be stamped out.

# ? Aug 19, 2019 13:20

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Cat Mattress posted:

still think reneging on the Good Friday Agreement is a good idea that Britain should do.

This is absolutely what these fucks believe.

Brexit is a cadaveric spasm of empire. It's bloated corpse filled with the same noxious gas it always was, eagerly sniffed up by the same toffs as yesteryear.

Orange Devil fucked around with this message at 15:13 on Aug 19, 2019

# ? Aug 19, 2019 15:07

Blut: Sep 11, 2009; if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

Recent polls show approx 60% of the Northern Irish population would prefer a customs border in the Irish sea rather than one between Northern Ireland and Ireland. So the EU and BoJo could actually agree to ditch the backstop - if BoJo left NI aligned with the EU, separate from the rest of the UK. Then theres no need for a backstop at all.

If hes aiming for a general election soon anyway then the fact he'd lose DUP support probably wouldn't be an issue. And a majority of Tory party members have already said they'd be fine with losing Northern Ireland if it resulted in "achieving" Brexit, so its unlikely he'd face an internal party revolt.

# ? Aug 19, 2019 17:17

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Blut posted:

Recent polls show approx 60% of the Northern Irish population would prefer a customs border in the Irish sea rather than one between Northern Ireland and Ireland. So the EU and BoJo could actually agree to ditch the backstop - if BoJo left NI aligned with the EU, separate from the rest of the UK. Then theres no need for a backstop at all.

If hes aiming for a general election soon anyway then the fact he'd lose DUP support probably wouldn't be an issue. And a majority of Tory party members have already said they'd be fine with losing Northern Ireland if it resulted in "achieving" Brexit, so its unlikely he'd face an internal party revolt.

It would be extremely funny if imperial delusions somehow 'decolonises' Northern Ireland into a United Ireland. I know we've said that a lot recently but come on, it would.

# ? Aug 20, 2019 11:13

Tesseraction: Apr 5, 2009

Squalid posted:

Historically Denmark has just let the US put w/e radar or air force bases there that it wants anyway. Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?

I mean maybe US pays a lease but god this is just Trump�s famous real estate instincts kicking in, the same instinct that led to his half dozen bankruptcies.

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1163603361423351808

# ? Aug 20, 2019 11:14

Junior G-man: Sep 15, 2004; Wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

Tesseraction posted:

It would be extremely funny if imperial delusions somehow 'decolonises' Northern Ireland into a United Ireland. I know we've said that a lot recently but come on, it would.

It would probably take the current generation of boomers and politicians to die first though? But hell yes I can see a United Ireland in 15-20 years if Brexit goes ahead.

# ? Aug 20, 2019 11:18

Honj Steak: May 31, 2013; Hi there.

Junior G-man posted:

It would probably take the current generation of boomers and politicians to die first though? But hell yes I can see a United Ireland in 15-20 years if Brexit goes ahead.

Sooner than you think! https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Irish_Unification_of_2024

# ? Aug 20, 2019 12:08

Darth Walrus: Feb 13, 2012

Junior G-man posted:

Nah, you just have to have genuine faith that the EU is bad, UK is good, and any form of tether (however reasonable and far-off in practice) ties the bad EU to the good UK, causing it to be bad too.

I genuinely think you can only understand a whole bunch of the UK Brexiteers if you accept that they have doctrine and faith, and that they consider any diminution of that faith to be heresy that must be stamped out.

That's the rank and file. The leadership have repeatedly made it clear that their motives are far more cynical.

# ? Aug 20, 2019 12:12

Junior G-man: Sep 15, 2004; Wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

Darth Walrus posted:

That's the rank and file. The leadership have repeatedly made it clear that their motives are far more cynical.

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure that's the case. Some of them are utterly cynical bastards, but I'd not be surprised at all if a lot of hard Brexit Tory MPs are just as convinced.

# ? Aug 20, 2019 12:14

V. Illych L.: Apr 11, 2008; ASK ME ABOUT LUMBER

Darth Walrus posted:

That's the rank and file. The leadership have repeatedly made it clear that their motives are far more cynical.

where's the line? cynical lies often end up being sincerely believed - one has to make the lie credible, which means convincing oneself first

e.g. i'm sure trump really believed that obama was born in kenya by the end there, and that liberals in the uk really believe that corbyn is pro-brexit, and that bolsanaro really thinks he's not destroying the amazon

# ? Aug 20, 2019 12:21

Shibawanko: Feb 13, 2013

Yeah deception works both ways, it's easier to deceive someone else if you first deceive yourself. The way some fascist or ultrarich ideologues behave is too bizarre sometimes to not be the product of genuine faith.

# ? Aug 20, 2019 14:22

Junior G-man: Sep 15, 2004; Wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

Alright, so Conte just resigned and the government has fallen.

Looks like new elections in Italy - there was even some guff about a Renzi comeback. God help us all.

quote:

Italian PM Conte resigns
�This government ends here,� prime minister tells parliament.

By SILVIA SCIORILLI BORRELLI 8/20/19, 3:58 PM CET Updated 8/20/19, 4:02 PM CET
ROME � Italian Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte has announced his resignation.

Conte's move preempted a confidence vote that had been expected to take place on Tuesday, 12 days after Interior Minister Matteo Salvini called for such a motion.

Before announcing his resignation, Conte said Salvini's decision "has major consequences on the country and its economy."

"This government ends here," Conte said.

The prime minister's resignation will not automatically trigger a snap election. It is now up to President Sergio Mattarella to decide on the way forward.

Salvini's far-right League is calling for new elections, a request backed by Silvio Berlusconi's Forza Italia and the far-right Brothers of Italy party.

Meanwhile, the 5Stars � the League's current coalition partners � are reported to be in talks with the center-left Democratic Party to potentially form a new government. Such a tie-up would effectively oust Salvini's party from government.

If an alternative parliamentary majority becomes a possibility, Mattarella could decide to install a new government without fresh elections. The president could also opt for a caretaker government to pass crucial budget legislation if a majority of lawmakers are willing to back such option.

# ? Aug 20, 2019 15:08

Dawncloack: Nov 26, 2007; ECKS DEE!; Nap Ghost

Hell yeah! Put Renzi and Monti on the same ballot! That will work this time!

# ? Aug 20, 2019 15:44

mortons stork: Oct 13, 2012

I wrote in the cspam thread about why a new govt is not as bad an idea as it seems, and since I am an insanely lazy person I'll just quote myself.

This would be deceptively good because salvini is on the backfoot and a. people in his party have been showing signs of discontent which might explode into full blown revolt if he shows them that he got outmaneuvered out of power, b. a lot of his political clients are new and not well consolidated, appointments can be reversed, so hitting him there another good way to hit him where it hurts (if he can't show his people they get appointments and power and money and bitches if they follow him theres good reason to find a better one). c. if he's no longer the minister of the interior he can't go campaigning around on state dime and have the political police's thugs protect his rallies like he did before, so he could actually face a modicum of organized resistance, further tarnishing his reputation.

ffs the guy got his communication and pr staff consultancies at the interior ministry so we've been basically subsidising his campaign the whole way. if he leaves govt and a new one is formed he loses that, and he also loses control over state tvs, he can actually be toppled i think.

i know that a lot of this is unlikely, as it implies other political forces have not only the foresight to put such a plan in act but the acumen to do it effectively, but still its a heck of a lot better than dehumanizing myself and facing to fascism.

# ? Aug 20, 2019 17:02

No. 1 Callie Fan: Feb 17, 2011; This inkling is your FRIEND
She fights for LOVE

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/1163961884225277954

Oh, he really was that serious about it.

Absolutely hilarious.

# ? Aug 21, 2019 05:32

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

The tories genuinely believe that Ireland is a throwaway backwater full of drunken peasants that no one cares about and can't understand that the EU doesn't see it that way.

# ? Aug 21, 2019 05:36

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

Ghost Leviathan posted:

The tories genuinely believe that ~~Ireland~~ everything outside of England is a throwaway backwater full of drunken peasants that no one cares about and can't understand that the EU doesn't see it that way.

Ftfy.

# ? Aug 21, 2019 06:46

Cat Mattress: Jul 14, 2012; by Cyrano4747

Greenland's not for sale, but other places apparently are:

https://twitter.com/Jongnva/status/1164190996982317056

# ? Aug 22, 2019 10:08

persopolis: Mar 9, 2017

Cat Mattress posted:

Greenland's not for sale, but other places apparently are:

https://twitter.com/Jongnva/status/1164190996982317056

gently caress, I hate our cringey right-wing seperatists...

# ? Aug 22, 2019 10:25

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Gets mixed up and tries to buy Wallachia.

# ? Aug 22, 2019 10:40

Orange Devil: Oct 1, 2010; Wullie's reign cannae smother the flames o' equality!

Ghost Leviathan posted:

Gets mixed up and tries to buy Wallachia.

Walcheren you say?

# ? Aug 22, 2019 11:01

Dommolus Magnus: Feb 27, 2013

Talking about places called "Foreignia" in old Germanic: Wales might actually up for sale once the economic impact of No-Deal-Brexit hits.

# ? Aug 22, 2019 11:47

Ghost Leviathan: Mar 2, 2017; Exploration is ill-advised.

Dracula returns, is looking good in comparison despite lobbying from the Belmonts.

# ? Aug 22, 2019 12:35

Squalid: Nov 4, 2008

Dommolus Magnus posted:

Talking about places called "Foreignia" in old Germanic: Wales might actually up for sale once the economic impact of No-Deal-Brexit hits.

*side eyes the Cayman Islands hungrily*

# ? Aug 22, 2019 15:37

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# ? May 24, 2024 01:25

MiddleOne: Feb 17, 2011

Dommolus Magnus posted:

Talking about places called "Foreignia" in old Germanic: Wales might actually up for sale once the economic impact of No-Deal-Brexit hits.

Watch Boris resolve the Irish border issue by selling Northern Ireland.

# ? Aug 22, 2019 15:46

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