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CainFortea posted:There was no series of stopable events to create that disaster tho. It was literally just "we'll save money by doing this wrong gently caress everyone" and that was it. - Flint - Bopal - Literally everything done outside of Soviet sphere of influence - Oh wait this was done at Chernobyl too as they were literally saving money on this flawed reactor design. It was just more about because the Soviet Union was going broke and less about making shareholders even richer at the expense of everyone else.
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Aug 16, 2019 17:34
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jeeves posted:- Flint If you think THE ONLY preventable step in chernobyl was "cost savings" you need to rewatch it and pay attention.
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Aug 16, 2019 17:41
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CainFortea posted:If you think THE ONLY preventable step in chernobyl was "cost savings" you need to rewatch it and pay attention. From what I understood, yes there was a whole series of idiot decisions which led to the catastrophe but, had the USSR not cheapened out on those rods, the panic button would have worked.
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Aug 16, 2019 18:03
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Kemper Boyd posted:That really wasn't a major fear in the Soviet Union of the eighties. More of a Stalin era thing. And it's not like the show wasn't trading on those very same stereotypes. The whole cow episode makes absolutely no sense unless the viewer is expected to honestly believe the soldier is about to shoot the old woman. (Or the made up soldier escorting Sitnikov to view the reactor core at gunpoint).
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Aug 16, 2019 18:12
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the rods weren't designed that way to save money but to give them greater control over the reaction rate. The real problem was its design as a dual use reactor.
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Aug 16, 2019 18:13
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Dalael posted:From what I understood, yes there was a whole series of idiot decisions which led to the catastrophe but, had the USSR not cheapened out on those rods, the panic button would have worked. And if Dyatlov had followed safety protocols it also wouldn't have happened. Almost as if, now follow closely here, there were multiple preventable steps.
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Aug 16, 2019 18:19
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Dalael posted:I think that people are reading too much into it. It doesn't need to be about anything more than what it is, a docu-drama about a disaster. Correct. Art is never ever political. Guernica is just some weird picture. Why think more about it?
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Aug 16, 2019 18:49
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It's possible for the artist to actually just intend a surface-level analysis but for the viewer to take more away from that, too.
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Aug 16, 2019 19:38
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Wasn't it mentioned if the reactor had a containment vessel it wouldn't of been as much of a disaster?
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Aug 16, 2019 19:47
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twistedmentat posted:Wasn't it mentioned if the reactor had a containment vessel it wouldn't of been as much of a disaster? It would definitely have been better are easier to get control of. Graphite wouldn't have been flung everywhere and putting out the initial fire would have been easier.
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Aug 16, 2019 20:01
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Xander77 posted:Americans will literally never ever care to comprehend that. I just watched Stranger Things season 3 and holy god it's trading in the same comically evil Soviet stereotypes from the 80s, which I know is the show's schtick, but it was like, even worse than I remembered. Square-jawed wrinkly scarred old Soviet general choking out a guy who dares to give him bad news, holding him up off the ground and strangling him and then telling the next guy "You have one year". Darth Vader eat your heart out. Torture rooms, truth drugs, trading quips about capitalism and marxism, man it was painful and not in a good way.
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Aug 16, 2019 20:17
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twistedmentat posted:Wasn't it mentioned if the reactor had a containment vessel it wouldn't of been as much of a disaster? Yeah. Chernobyl-like events have happened multiple times in the US, but it never affected anyone who didn’t work in the plants because they had containment vessels. Also, the lack of containment in Soviet designs was one of many cost-savings measures.
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Aug 16, 2019 20:29
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Yeah. Chernobyl-like events have happened multiple times in the US, but it never affected anyone who didn’t work in the plants because they had containment vessels. To be fair, America never had a reactor straight up explode. Did anyone ever assess whether a vessel would have contained the entire explosion?
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Aug 16, 2019 20:44
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Pook Good Mook posted:To be fair, America never had a reactor straight up explode. Did anyone ever assess whether a vessel would have contained the entire explosion? The size of an RBMK reactor makes it practically impossible to make a containment vessel strong enough.
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Aug 16, 2019 21:20
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:It's possible for the artist to actually just intend a surface-level analysis but for the viewer to take more away from that, too. He absolutely did not.
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Aug 16, 2019 22:27
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The cost saving stupidity involved in Flint really pisses me off, try to pinch some pennies and then you have to spend exponentially more money fixing the mess you made and you get to poison loads of residents as a bonus. There's just no excuse for that poo poo happening.
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Aug 17, 2019 00:38
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Data Graham posted:I just watched Stranger Things season 3 and holy god it's trading in the same comically evil Soviet stereotypes from the 80s, which I know is the show's schtick, but it was like, even worse than I remembered. Square-jawed wrinkly scarred old Soviet general choking out a guy who dares to give him bad news, holding him up off the ground and strangling him and then telling the next guy "You have one year". Darth Vader eat your heart out. I’ve barely watched S2 let alone 3 but the American facility had all those horrible things in S1?
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Aug 17, 2019 00:58
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NowonSA posted:The cost saving stupidity involved in Flint really pisses me off, try to pinch some pennies and then you have to spend exponentially more money fixing the mess you made and you get to poison loads of residents as a bonus. Evidence suggests they don't have to pay anything to fix it by just not fixing it.
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Aug 17, 2019 01:27
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CainFortea posted:Evidence suggests they don't have to pay anything to fix it by just not fixing it. Ugh, there's that side to the whole mess too, yeah. Can't really trust that it's all getting done right. Hard to trust the government that just let you down so significantly. I'm about an hour and change from Flint, but it's still a heck of a blemish on the whole state, from my perspective.
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Aug 17, 2019 01:54
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Data Graham posted:I just watched Stranger Things season 3 and holy god it's trading in the same comically evil Soviet stereotypes from the 80s, which I know is the show's schtick, but it was like, even worse than I remembered. Square-jawed wrinkly scarred old Soviet general choking out a guy who dares to give him bad news, holding him up off the ground and strangling him and then telling the next guy "You have one year". Darth Vader eat your heart out. I'm not the biggest ST fanboi, but there's a decent chance this is intentional right.
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Aug 17, 2019 12:18
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It's 100% intentional. They've switched from "creepy mystery that happens to take place in the 80's" and are now full on "remember this from the 80's?!?!" So evil Russians and Magnum PI had to sneak in there somewhere.
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Aug 17, 2019 13:33
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And whereas S1 was ET and S2 was Jurassic Park, S3 had a straight-up Terminator
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Aug 17, 2019 14:27
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Data Graham posted:And whereas S1 was ET and S2 was Jurassic Park, S3 had a straight-up Terminator I liked how they made him look simultaneously like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Robert Patrick. But yeah, they started with stereotypical 80s media evil secret American mad science agency and then did a stereotypical 80s media evil secret Soviet mad science agency and it suddenly draws out all the 
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Aug 17, 2019 16:41
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Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:Yeah. Chernobyl-like events have happened multiple times in the US https://mobile.twitter.com/simpsonsqotd/status/481780827597324288
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Aug 17, 2019 19:10
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https://twitter.com/Mach1ne_4423/status/1162574773970358272?s=09
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Aug 18, 2019 08:25
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IDGIT
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Aug 18, 2019 08:57
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MarcusSA posted:IDGIT https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demon_core quote:On the day of the accident, Slotin's screwdriver slipped outward a fraction of an inch while he was lowering the top reflector, allowing the reflector to fall into place around the core. Instantly there was a flash of blue light and a wave of heat across Slotin's skin; the core had become supercritical, releasing an intense burst of neutron radiation estimated to have lasted about a half second.
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Aug 18, 2019 11:13
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZIjbX1gj88 I think this explains it pretty well.
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Aug 18, 2019 13:44
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twistedmentat posted:Wasn't it mentioned if the reactor had a containment vessel it wouldn't of been as much of a disaster? Yes. And depends. Current papers support the idea that the initial explosion was a nuclear fizzle rather than a steam explosion which probably occurred a few seconds later., so basically a nuclear explosion that largely failed, but still provided enough energy to lift the containment lid off it. Containment would've helped keep the mess in, but most BWR containment systems are designed around massive steam explosions, not encountering a nuclear fizzle (which https://www.chemistryworld.com/news/chernobyl-disaster-mystery-solved/3008327.article CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 21:38 on Aug 18, 2019 |
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Aug 18, 2019 21:30
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i gotta watch the movie cuz i still dont understand why he was using a screw driver and what his loving goal was if not to join the two sides
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Aug 19, 2019 02:02
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KoRMaK posted:i gotta watch the movie cuz i still dont understand why he was using a screw driver and what his loving goal was if not to join the two sides Well, it sounds like the goal was to bring the core as close to supercritical as possible to test how pure the metals were, and he used a screwdriver because he was a lazy idiot.
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Aug 19, 2019 02:07
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Wikipedia posted:As the reflectors were manually moved closer and farther away from each other, scintillation counters measured the relative activity from the core. The experimenter needed to maintain a slight separation between the reflector halves in order to stay below criticality. The standard protocol was to use shims between the halves, as allowing them to close completely could result in the instantaneous formation of a critical mass and a lethal power excursion. Under Slotin's own unapproved protocol, the shims were not used and the only thing preventing the closure was the blade of a standard straight screwdriver manipulated in Slotin's other hand. Slotin, who was given to bravado, became the local expert, performing the test on almost a dozen occasions, often in his trademark blue jeans and cowboy boots, in front of a roomful of observers. Enrico Fermi reportedly told Slotin and others they would be "dead within a year" if they continued performing the test in that manner. Literally he was just lazy and arrogant.
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Aug 19, 2019 02:11
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Reminds me of another accident where one of the Los Alamos crew accidentally ingested plutonium. https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes.com/books/first/w/welsome-plutonium.html quote:
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Aug 19, 2019 02:27
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Rip Testes posted:Reminds me of another accident where one of the Los Alamos crew accidentally ingested plutonium. Why did I feel like that story was going to go "and he saw the weird liquid and decided to try drinking it". Like with that Egyptian Sarcophagus and that red liquid.
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Aug 19, 2019 03:10
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If you're interested in stories like those (both of which are covered in the book) I would recommend reading The Plutonium Files by Eileen Welsome. Some really hosed-up stories in there, especially when it comes to the government secretly administering plutonium and other radioactive substances to civilians (many either black or mentally-handicapped) without their knowledge in order to see what would happen. The book also notes how as a result of the 1940s/50s nuclear testing, cancer rates across the entire Midwest dramatically went up, and how the government worked to sweep that under the rug.
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Aug 19, 2019 03:12
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Both the Slotin incident and the Mastick incident are shown in the movie "Fat man and Little Boy", which if not entirely historically accurate, is worth a watch. Here's the Slotin scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hh89h8FxNhQ E: or actually the Mastick incident is not in the movie, I misremembered. Both are in the Manhattan TV show, iirc. spankmeister fucked around with this message at 06:51 on Aug 19, 2019 |
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Aug 19, 2019 06:46
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spankmeister posted:Both the Slotin incident and the Mastick incident are shown in the movie "Fat man and Little Boy", which if not entirely historically accurate, is worth a watch. Man I love how janky all nuclear stuff was in the early days. Man an HBO show about the Atom and hydrogen bomb development would be cool. It's pure visual but if you can track it down, Trinity and beyond The Atomic Bomb movie is awesome to see the test footage and the lengths they'd go to test out the bombs. You even have Edmund "Oppenhiemer was a Communist because he didn't approve of my giant rear end bombs" Teller as a very old man. Chairman Capone posted:The book also notes how as a result of the 1940s/50s nuclear testing, cancer rates across the entire Midwest dramatically went up, and how the government worked to sweep that under the rug. This is often used as an counter to "smoking causes cancer" because they love to point out the Conquerer was shot on radioactive sand and that's what gave John Wayne lung cancer, not his 40 cigarettes a day.
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Aug 19, 2019 08:01
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spankmeister posted:Both the Slotin incident and the Mastick incident are shown in the movie "Fat man and Little Boy", which if not entirely historically accurate, is worth a watch. Manhattan was such a great show
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Aug 19, 2019 13:54
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I watched this entire thing yesterday thinking "meh yeah I remember that I'll see if its any good before bed" and i wound up staying up until 3am so I could watch the entire thing. There were a few scenes I just could not do but holy poo poo it was good. How real was the radiation poisoning poo poo? I did not know it could've been a lot worse than it was..... loving crazy.
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Aug 19, 2019 18:06
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karma_coma posted:
That really seems to depend on who you ask.
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