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That's exactly why I said before that neutrality is the most Remain-ey feasible policy for an actual party of Government. Do your best, then put it to the people and do whatever. Saying beforehand "we'd totally campaign against it" is ridiculous, saying "we'd totally campaign for it" hands fubpees a bunch of ammo and removes the possibility of saying "welp we did our best looks like a good Brexit just isn't possible" later on e2: & yeah, to emphasise, the possibility of staying neutral thing was really just part of a "we won't rule anything out" spiel, which is kinda to be expected e: in 1154, Adrian IV became the only Englishman ever elected Pope, apparently Borrovan fucked around with this message at 15:14 on Aug 19, 2019 |
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Aug 19, 2019 15:09
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:pro-tip (if you're serious) - use a lovely brand of e-cigs. I eventually got so fed up of Blu's batteries and cartomiser cartridges basically dying after barely any use that I was able to kick them about six months after I moved to them I'm on the Champix - tried vaping (and every other form of NRT) multiple times and it never does it for me, probably because it never truly breaks the habit. Champix, despite making me feel seasick for an hour every morning and evening, works a loving blinder. Then inevitably a year later I think "Hey it won't hurt if I have just one fag..."
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Aug 19, 2019 15:10
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Junior G-man posted:Alright, I think I may have mis-interpreted stuff in my posts above, but this ... an EEA/Norway thingy could, and would need to, be negotiated after brexit day. the withdrawal agreement is only about what the relationship is immediately after leaving the EU, the real work's supposed to be done after that. the agreement was consciously drawn up to leave most hard questions for later, so everyone could say it was a first step to their brexit end stage. For all the good that did well, the backstop's in there but that's an exception. a formal customs union/single market deal would need to be negotiated after leaving, not before. In any case the actual policies that a fresh face might bring to Brussels won't interest the eurocrats, what they'll care about is the parliamentary mandate that underpins those policies. Corbyn with a fresh, dependably red parliament will get heard out. Corbyn as head of an avowedly temporary, five-party coalition of last resort to deliver another referendum and nothing more, won't. quote:Honestly, the only realistic referendum vote is on the current deal / hard Brexit with Bojo (one of the two) vs. pure Remain and revoke A.50. Every other option is so conditional and so dependent on a million other puzzle pieces falling into place. If you had a 49.0/49.7 hard leave/hard remain referendum result, would you be credibly able to argue that it gave you any sort of mandate
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Aug 19, 2019 15:16
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ThomasPaine posted:Lol sometimes I wish corbs was the terrifying super-tankie these guys want to convince themselves he is Lookin' forward to setting up an altar to Corbs
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Aug 19, 2019 15:17
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ThomasPaine posted:Lol sometimes I wish corbs was the terrifying super-tankie these guys want to convince themselves he is Ah yes, Stalin's famous unspun persona.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:19
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I wonder if jeremy corbyn can grant cleric spells. Again I want my Magic Circle Against Bourgeoisie.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:24
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Borrovan posted:Anyway the TUC has published this interactive guide to dealing with the far right. Lots of general info on there, but the focus seems to be on having frank and reasonable conversations with them without hurting their delicate feelings, which, uh... It is all based on talking and mobilizing and getting a dialog going, but that's modern trade unionism. At no point are they suggesting that a shop steward sits down with Tommy Robinson and talks him around to being less of a dickhead though, and they're not exactly being antagonistic to anti-fascists, just saying that we also need to build communities that are inherent unwelcoming places for fascist thought. ThomasPaine posted:Lol sometimes I wish corbs was the terrifying super-tankie these guys want to convince themselves he is  Sounds like something that we can get involved in the blood of sacrifice to the forces of the workers.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:26
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ThomasPaine posted:Lol sometimes I wish corbs was the terrifying super-tankie these guys want to convince themselves he is Love 2 see libs working themselves up into a frothing rage over fantasies they're imagining in their head
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Aug 19, 2019 15:27
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:If you had a 49.0/49.7 hard leave/hard remain referendum result, would you be credibly able to argue that it gave you any sort of mandate Just don't tell us the numbers. Have the computer count it up then just put up a big yes or no on the screens at piccadilly, then scrub itself.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:27
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Borrovan posted:That's exactly why I said before that neutrality is the most Remain-ey feasible policy for an actual party of Government. Do your best, then put it to the people and do whatever. I'm warming to this Labour can credibly claim they're not instigators of brexit, but trying to not only fix somebody else's mess, but also trying to keep the promises those wankers failed to keep--workable defence against brexit purists and such. I do hope all those hard remainers left themselves some excuse to turn toward corbyn as PM though, or they'll look a lot like spineless twats fighting for PM Spineless Twat
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Aug 19, 2019 15:29
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ThomasPaine posted:Lol sometimes I wish corbs was the terrifying super-tankie these guys want to convince themselves he is Can't wait to sacrifice unbelievers at my street corner Corbyn altar.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:30
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Tijuana Bibliophile posted:an EEA/Norway thingy could, and would need to, be negotiated after brexit day. the withdrawal agreement is only about what the relationship is immediately after leaving the EU, the real work's supposed to be done after that. the agreement was consciously drawn up to leave most hard questions for later, so everyone could say it was a first step to their brexit end stage. For all the good that did Completely agreed on that, so the first thing for a Corbyn government to do would have to be to sign a possibly slightly but not hugely different version to the current Chequers agreement - a Tory policy - which spells out the transition periods and the bits about Ireland, money and citizenship. Probably a strong Labour government would, due to its lack of red lines, be able to do better on those last 3 bits and get a better negotiating period as it would hint/state that its outcome would be EEA-like. But in that case Labour would certainly have to spell out its own end goals in general, if not explicit terms. How it can do that with a party currently split between leave and remain I don't know. Plus, why would the EU consider Labour a trustworthy negotiating partner if it pledges to call a referendum between its own deal and full remain, and not to give any opinion on that matter. It just creates years more insecurity for the EU and is dependent on an outcome that may not be formally supported by the government they're negotiating with. quote:In any case the actual policies that a fresh face might bring to Brussels won't interest the eurocrats, what they'll care about is the parliamentary mandate that underpins those policies. Corbyn with a fresh, dependably red parliament will get heard out. Corbyn as head of an avowedly temporary, five-party coalition of last resort to deliver another referendum and nothing more, won't. Completely agreed, they might be willing to give the Unified Government of All Parties a few months, but absolutely conditional on either a) knowing what Labour's position would be for a new negotiating round and having confidence that Labour would actually win the majority needed to see it through or b) an immediate referendum on Chequers vs. Remain, with no more take-backsies after that. quote:If you had a 49.0/49.7 hard leave/hard remain referendum result, would you be credibly able to argue that it gave you any sort of mandate I dunno, 52-48 worked out pretty well for the Hard Brexit crowd. Ish. I have no idea.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:30
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marktheando posted:Ah yes, Stalin's famous unspun persona. I mean, tbf, kinda? Friendly old Uncle Joe and all that
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Aug 19, 2019 15:35
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Borrovan posted:Seema Chandwani and Billy Hayes Thanks - tiz done. I'll go along with taking the views of lefties how to vote as I know none of these people and agree with your 'united front' sentiment. The person who it gives me greatest grief to vote for is Lansman but he's not in this lot. Not see anything for the PCC voting yet!
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Aug 19, 2019 15:40
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Borrovan posted:
Yesssssssssss, re-messaging for anyone else in South Wales who skimmed past this the first time. Full disclaimer: I'm involved in this campaign.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:41
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What do PCCs actually do because I'm pretty sure all mine does is hobnob with cop nobs and email me about it.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:43
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feedmegin posted:I mean, tbf, kinda? Friendly old Uncle Joe and all that That persona is like the opposite of an unspun persona though? It's a carefully created propaganda thing that has nothing to do with the real Stalin. If we are drawing up a list of Stalin and Corbyn comparisons the way they manage their public image is not one I would use.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:43
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In more hilarious LibDem garbage, they have gone nuh-uh double downsies on the National Unity But Not With You thing:quote:Tom Brake, the Lib Dem Brexit spokesman, says that if Jeremy Corbyn really intends to do “everything necessary” to stop a no-deal Brexit, as he promised in his speech this morning, he must prove it. In a statement Brake said:
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Aug 19, 2019 15:43
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Further utter LMAO  Oh no, not the TRIBALISM!!! Where's my radical centre?
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Aug 19, 2019 15:46
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marktheando posted:If we are drawing up a list of Stalin and Corbyn comparisons the way they manage their public image is not one I would use.  That's all I got.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:47
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marktheando posted:That persona is like the opposite of an unspun persona though? It's a carefully created propaganda thing that has nothing to do with the real Stalin. The persona being projected is of someone who is unspun, whatever the reality, was my take on it.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:49
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Guavanaut posted:Facial hair. Hat, sometimes. Both to the left of Yvette Cooper.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:50
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UnquietDream posted:Yesssssssssss, re-messaging for anyone else in South Wales who skimmed past this the first time. I've not seen anything about voting in this one? Has something been sent out? I've just searched my emails and found nothing.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:51
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Is there a way they can actually find out if anyone can command a majority, like a parliamentary process as opposed to a SPAD straw poll while they're on a smoke break?
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Aug 19, 2019 15:51
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OwlFancier posted:What do PCCs actually do because I'm pretty sure all mine does is hobnob with cop nobs and email me about it. Theoretically? Hold the police to account and implement/steer policy, for example one of the Plaid PCC's has supposedly started the (sorta) defacto decriminalisation of cannabis in North Wales: https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/qvy4qd/this-is-de-facto-decriminalisation-welsh-police-chiefs-stance-on-weed
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Aug 19, 2019 15:52
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hey rarity! *secret DiS handshake*
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Aug 19, 2019 15:53
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UnquietDream posted:Theoretically? Hold the police to account and implement/steer policy, for example one of the Plaid PCC's has supposedly started the (sorta) defacto decriminalisation of cannabis in North Wales: https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/qvy4qd/this-is-de-facto-decriminalisation-welsh-police-chiefs-stance-on-weed marktheando posted:Both to the left of Yvette Cooper. 
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Aug 19, 2019 15:54
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Labour can't commit to backing remain over a deal they've negotiated before they negotiate it because then why would the EU make a good deal? Labour also can't commit to backing its own deal over remain because they can't know what's going to be in such a deal. They know how they want to go about it, but not what they'll actually get from the EU.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:55
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Champix, despite making me feel seasick for an hour every morning and evening, works a loving blinder. 
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Aug 19, 2019 15:55
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Jaeluni Asjil posted:I've not seen anything about voting in this one? Has something been sent out? I've just searched my emails and found nothing. It should have been part of your original Conference Arrangements Committee email list. Are you in any of the following areas? Aberavon Bridgend Cardiff Central Cardiff North Cardiff South and Penarth Cardiff West Cynon Valley Gower Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney Neath Ogmore Pontypridd Rhondda Swansea East Swansea West Vale of Glamorgan If yes, send me a message and I'll look into it. If not then it's because you're not in the area defined as South Wales electorally.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:55
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Tarnop posted:Is there a way they can actually find out if anyone can command a majority, like a parliamentary process as opposed to a SPAD straw poll while they're on a smoke break? Don't know how you could possibly find this out for sure without having a vote in parliament.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:57
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Pilchenstein posted:That's the stuff where you keep smoking and then one day you just get nothing from it? I used that to quit the second time and it stuck. Helps that I quit getting pissed too though, I have to admit Yeah, it pretty much just burns off all your nicotine receptors. It's really weird to just suddenly not have this constant urge for a fag.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:58
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ash sarkar in the mirror, what do we make of this? i generally trust her instincts tbh.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:58
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gh0stpinballa posted:ash sarkar in the mirror, what do we make of this? i generally trust her instincts tbh. If you see ash sarkar in the mirror, you may, in fact, be ash sarkar. Worth checking out.
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Aug 19, 2019 15:59
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UnquietDream posted:It should have been part of your original Conference Arrangements Committee email list. Are you in any of the following areas? I'm further to the east than those but definitely South Wales geographically!
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Aug 19, 2019 16:00
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gh0stpinballa posted:ash sarkar in the mirror, what do we make of this? i generally trust her instincts tbh. Smart move by the mirror IMO. Anything Ash is involved in is better by virtue of Ash being involved in it.
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Aug 19, 2019 16:00
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gh0stpinballa posted:ash sarkar in the mirror, what do we make of this? i generally trust her instincts tbh. What's she saying? Still lolling at the idea of the national unity government expecting Corbyn to join the National Government but not lead it.
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Aug 19, 2019 16:00
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namesake posted:What's she saying? All Boris' proposals aren't actual policies, they're there to activate and energise the curtain-twitching Tories in the shires and dog-whistle the racists to come out and support him for an election.
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Aug 19, 2019 16:02
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I like that the job of corbyn is not to achieve a majority, but to use his magic powers to give someone else a majority. Like surely the onus is on someone else to drum up a majority rather than asking completely ineffectual nobody Jeremy Corbyn to hand them one?
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Aug 19, 2019 16:03
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Ken Clarke or Harriet Harman or The Hat Man are acceptable to the LibDems. Those are therefore the only acceptable choices because the LibDems are the kingmakers. Obviously.
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Aug 19, 2019 16:05
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