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Loomer posted:Fact: Gangrel spelled backwards is Lergnag. If you divide this in half and shuffle the letters you get Naggler. Naggler is a place in Austria. The Gangrel hate the tremere, who arebassd in Austria. Coincidence?? Wait, I thought this was World of Darkness, not Unknown Armies.
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Aug 19, 2019 17:25
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Omnicrom posted:Wait, I thought this was World of Darkness, not Unknown Armies. When loomer's involved there isn't much of a difference.
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Aug 19, 2019 17:33
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ZearothK posted:Nowadays I just give flat XP. The way XP is handed RAW in Storyteller/Storytelling feels metagamey in a way I don't feel always contributes to the game. I'm torn because on the one hand I think games giving you small but important incentives to play to tone is very helpful, but on the other hand, XP is just about the worst incentive you could use to do that -- it's too vital, and has too much potential for distortion or intra-party balance issues.
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Aug 19, 2019 17:40
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pavlovian conditioning w treats
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Aug 19, 2019 17:50
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theyre p cheap in the pet aisle
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Aug 19, 2019 17:50
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Metapod posted:See I think it's a 2 dot flaw because there are other flaws said in the v20 book (v5 doesn't have enough flaws right now which is ashame) that are kinda like a debt but not really. So with it being a major debt to a gang I think it would warrant 2 dots. Depends on what kind of debt. Have you considered maybe converting that debt into enemies?
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Aug 19, 2019 17:53
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Top Hats Monthly posted:Depends on what kind of debt. Have you considered maybe converting that debt into enemies? No that wouldn't work. Someone in my group wants to try being a st so he's going to do the pre built campaign in the Chicago by night book and that requires all the characters to know each other or at least know of each other beforehand. One of the other players is taking the Capone gang lore sheet so the debt is how my character will know him. The debt makes sense because my vampire has a gambling addiction so he would have lost a lot at some illegal poker game.
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Aug 19, 2019 18:03
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Metapod posted:No that wouldn't work. Someone in my group wants to try being a st so he's going to do the pre built campaign in the Chicago by night book and that requires all the characters to know each other or at least know of each other beforehand. One of the other players is taking the Capone gang lore sheet so the debt is how my character will know him. The debt makes sense because my vampire has a gambling addiction so he would have lost a lot at some illegal poker game. The level of debt would probably translate to dots. A two dot debt means that there are probably mafiosos looking for you and want to thump your skull, a one dot debt might deny you the ability to go on their turf. Chicago V5 is great when it comes to loresheets.
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Aug 19, 2019 18:15
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Top Hats Monthly posted:The level of debt would probably translate to dots. A two dot debt means that there are probably mafiosos looking for you and want to thump your skull, a one dot debt might deny you the ability to go on their turf. Chicago V5 is great when it comes to loresheets. Thank you for the feedback I'll definitely think about this. Yeah the Chicago book is very good
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Aug 19, 2019 18:28
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I'm torn because on the one hand I think games giving you small but important incentives to play to tone is very helpful, but on the other hand, XP is just about the worst incentive you could use to do that -- it's too vital, and has too much potential for distortion or intra-party balance issues. I think this is where really rigorously genre-appropriate game mechanics come in. Like a combat system in which wounds are easy to get but take forever to heal is going to help players take violence really seriously, or a magic system in which knowing your enemy's name lets you pierce their defenses is going to strongly encourage paranoiac anonymity, and so on.
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Aug 19, 2019 18:28
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ogresque posted:pavlovian conditioning w treats Literally how I use beats.
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Aug 19, 2019 18:30
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Thanks for the advice! I have indeed decided to go down the group beats route, as I think it will allow for more collaborative decisions and balance out the diverse roles people are going for in the group. When nights are purely sleuthing and surreptitious info gathering, the demon who made the biggest beatstick for a character wont have to feel like he s being left behind until his big moment. I did find the cheat sheet and it looks great, so I'll be printing a couple copies of it out to have on hand for beat collection and some condition tracking.
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Aug 19, 2019 18:40
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Metapod posted:I'm sorry I'm not just going to side with a poster who is clearly not telling the whole story because I'm not an entitled baby who only cares about how my character does rather than the story as a whole develops. murdering a PC over a masquerade violation, without getting them invested in that and getting the other PCs to swear eternal vengeance is poo poo storytelling and also poo poo Storytelling as in it's narratively unsatisfying and explicitly called out in every ST guide in every edition as Something Not to Do PCs deaths are supposed to be meaningful. They don't need to be pre-agreed on, but if you kill a PC outside of combat in one session you've failed as a Storyteller.
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Aug 19, 2019 18:56
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Relevant Tangent posted:murdering a PC over a masquerade violation, without getting them invested in that and getting the other PCs to swear eternal vengeance is poo poo storytelling and also poo poo Storytelling as in it's narratively unsatisfying and explicitly called out in every ST guide in every edition as Something Not to Do Yeah I agree with the first part but why are you assuming they aren't invested in it? Considering the op died by the hand of his own coterie member and was told afterward to stop loving up that more than implies that breaches are supposed to be taken seriously in his campaign.
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Aug 19, 2019 19:18
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Metapod posted:Yeah I agree with the first part but why are you assuming they aren't invested in it? Considering the op died by the hand of his own coterie member and was told afterward to stop loving up that more than implies that breaches are supposed to be taken seriously in his campaign. The real hosed up thing is the fellow coterie member being forced to execute their friend. Blitz got what he deserved but his coterie member shouldn't have had to kill his own friend. That's actually sorta hosed up. Roman style decimation poo poo
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Aug 19, 2019 19:41
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Wow that sounds like garbage storytelling all around. There's easily a dozen better ways to spin a breach. Have the players recover the CCTV footage, or let the Prince leverage it as blackmail forcing increasingly dangerous and illicit situations. Or use it as a springboard to bring in hunters, curious mages, rival vampires, or anything else that lives in the WoD. Good improvisation is "Yes, and..." but this went straight to "No and gently caress you." That's someone who thinks they're much better at storytelling than they are.
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Aug 19, 2019 20:22
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Oberst posted:The real hosed up thing is the fellow coterie member being forced to execute their friend. Blitz got what he deserved but his coterie member shouldn't have had to kill his own friend. That's actually sorta hosed up. Roman style decimation poo poo Yeah idk what blitz could have done to elicit that type of execution but it had to be something serious before the club thing because its really hosed up
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Aug 19, 2019 20:22
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All this talk about "real consequences" makes me remember when White Wolf's official chatgame tried to make masquerade breaches serious business by having PC and NPC police officers investigate crimes and going after people who left any indication of a victim. Which resulted in a number of goofy effects, two of the bigger being: 1. Lots of vampires ending up in jail and then bursting into flames from the sun before the camarilla could find out they were arrested, leading to hilariously larger masquerade breaches altogether. 2. Players just not describing their feedings, and only limiting it to very vague description and dice rolls when they really had to log how many blood points they had. Which did technically limit the number of dead bodies found in alleys or club bathrooms or whatever, but mainly by players figuring out how to game the ST's approach to "realism". Rather than learning to be more careful about feeding, they learned to be very vague and obtuse in describing it to the STs or other players. There were lots of other weird artifacts of attempts to make things "realistic" in the various game lines, but pretty much they all boiled down to "applying realism to fictional supernatural predators mostly highlights why those creatures wouldn't actually function well if they were real, and/or leads to often amusing unintended consequences in a game". Desiden fucked around with this message at 20:56 on Aug 19, 2019 |
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Aug 19, 2019 20:53
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Metapod posted:Yeah idk what blitz could have done to elicit that type of execution but it had to be something serious before the club thing because its really hosed up Wait so your assumption is that the ST must be justified, and the poster must have done something Real Serious? That's not very parsimonious. There's no actual vampire leadership making rational decisions here. Just some people at a table, one of whom makes these calls.
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Aug 19, 2019 20:59
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Joe Slowboat posted:Wait so your assumption is that the ST must be justified, and the poster must have done something Real Serious? That's not very parsimonious. There's no actual vampire leadership making rational decisions here. Just some people at a table, one of whom makes these calls. Yes I assume the person being told to stop loving up did something else. Now whether or not it was justified idk cause the op won't tell us what all happened
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Aug 19, 2019 21:24
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Sour Diesel posted:I'm about to start running a game with some friends of mine, we're still unsure of which WoD game we wanna play, but that's not the issue. Seeing some reactions from earlier, I've learned that it's apparently really bad to have negative effects on a player's character at any time without their permission. Does anyone have any tips on how to break the ice when opening a discussion and seeing if it's okay with the player if something bad happens to their character, such as them taking damage or having a NPC disagree with them? "You're going in guns blazing? Okay, I won't stop you, but keep in mind your character is aware they're facing [LETHAL THREAT], [LETHAL THREAT], and [A LETHAL, SUPERNATURAL THREAT.]" "Yes, exactly, I'm bored of this character and want to go down in a blaze of glory." "Okay, I wasn't prepared for that tonight, but give me 5 minutes to switch up the plot a little and we can go forward." Basically just keep reminding them of context they might have forgotten, or discuss a little your plans for the story moving forward. It's very much a push pull thing, but once you integrate it into the playstyle you'll find everything runs smoother than DM-is-the-ultimate-arbiter style.
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Aug 19, 2019 21:29
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I feel like my approach to tabletops decisions is really a glowing example for taking care of player disputes. Allow me to explain: The first step is we hit the Staples Easy Button In the middle of the table to signify our intention to speak out of character. The DM will stand up and bow while saying “you have the floor, fellow kindred”. We then display our grievances and take a break and upon a round table vote, if successful, we put it in a bill form. At the end of every session we address the bills in another vote, but there’s no way to really guarantee it goes through. Which is why it’s important to form alliances within the tabletop group, now they may, in exchange for supporting the bill, demand other concessions in exchange for their support which is where we decide whether or not it’s truly worth it. Will filing our bill dilute our overall message of where the role play should go? Or how combat is handled? Once putting together the bill, it must be approved yet again by the round table by a ‘yay’ or ‘nay’ vote, after which the DM has a veto clause. This doesn’t mean the DM has unlimited power however, it means we can take the bill and pass it among our friends and family to get their vote on it in a committee that’s formed beforehand. If it goes through this group, it’s brought back to the round table where we can approve or deny it. In which case our majority rule would override the DM’s choice (assuming it passed with over 60% of the vote.) This can all happen within ten minutes with the help of a chat program like Discord or X-Fire.
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Aug 19, 2019 23:10
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I honestly can't tell if you're trying to satirize the idea of any kind of basic discussion of what a game's going to play like, or really effectively satirizing the bizarre way some people seem to think talking about this stuff would involve a total loss of all common sense.
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Aug 19, 2019 23:13
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Metapod posted:some dumb bullshit christ you're awful
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Aug 20, 2019 00:25
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Relevant Tangent posted:christ you're awful Gonna provide another quote as a response to your quote. Soonmot posted:I cannot believe y'all haven't placed those two on ignore. You're just yelling at a wall. Soonmot is totally on point here, by the V20 duo have gone into dedicated threadshitting mode and are absolutely not worth engaging. Report, ignore, move on.
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Aug 20, 2019 01:25
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Omnicrom posted:Soonmot is totally on point here, by the V20 duo have gone into dedicated threadshitting mode and are absolutely not worth engaging. Report, ignore, move on. Lmfao someone doesn't agree with me gotta report to the wah wah police so I don't have to think about what I believe
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Aug 20, 2019 01:35
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The thing with RPG Horror Stories is that a lot of time we get the information filtered from the perspective of one gamer than a more holistic view. And I've definitely heard of my share of melodramatic Vampire players who hate anyone with so much as 1 dot in Potence (ROLEPLAYING NOT ROLLPLAYING). That said... When the Sabbat burned down the White House and are openly killing people in Mexico, I'm pretty sure that the Masquerade has been blown wide open by now. From a Storyteller's standpoint it seems weird that someone being bitten in the jugular in a nightclub counts as a Final Death-worthy Masquerade Violation when IRL mortals do the same when jumped up on bath salts. Unless of course the PC was screaming "I AM A VAMPIRE" and using a very obvious Discipline like powerslamming the dude through a solid wall. Or there's several news reports of "biters" already floating around, or whatnot. Libertad! fucked around with this message at 01:47 on Aug 20, 2019 |
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Aug 20, 2019 01:42
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So according to the Demon Storyteller's Guide, apparently the Qashmallim just see right through Covers. Does this make them the only beings that can just straight-up do that?
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Aug 20, 2019 01:45
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Blitz7x posted:So according to the Demon Storyteller's Guide, apparently the Qashmallim just see right through Covers. Does this make them the only beings that can just straight-up do that? I think so. Qashmallim are weird as hell, and I am glad they give you more to do with them in Promethean 2e. Easily one of the most alien things in CoD.
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Aug 20, 2019 01:57
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Blitz7x posted:So according to the Demon Storyteller's Guide, apparently the Qashmallim just see right through Covers. Does this make them the only beings that can just straight-up do that? The children of two demons can see through their parents' cover, but only their parents'. The qashmallim "we see life" passage there is an example of my favorite kind of crossover material, the kind I wish we saw more of instead of approaches like the Contagion Chronicle. It's new information about how two parties interact, it fits the relevant themes being worked with, and it adds both to the image of the qashmallim as a whole and to complicating the drama when they interact with demons. And all this without having to pluck the low-hanging fruit of defining "are they related to God-Machine angels?"
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Aug 20, 2019 02:02
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So I have a dilemma. I have a group of friends that have been playing one of these kinda games for a long time. A few years, I think, but I'm not sure. I think it's called 13th age? They're all well established and know all the rules and everything. I've always kinda resisted because it doesn't really sound like my kind of thing, but this weekend I finally agreed to join in and give it a shot. So I get there and the guy running the game, whom I've known for a while and know can be a bit of a narcissist, basically shoves all these books at me and tells me to create a character. That's it. Doesn't give me any kind of direction or whatever. Just hands me a couple of books that have character classes and whatnot, and says that once I pick a character and class, they can work with me to try and get me involved in the game. So I'm looking through the books he gave me and I pick out a Tiefling (the demon guys I think), and I pick Chaos Mage because that sounds like a cool class. I write down a name and all that kinda stuff and let my buddy know. He and the rest of the guys that had arrived by then just start laughing and say absolutely not, Chaos mages are too hard to keep track of and a Tiefling wouldn't fit with the aesthetic of the story. He tells me to pick something else, and at that point I'm already annoyed and just tell him to tell me what I should pick since I don't want to waste my time picking something else only to be shot down again. He gets all defensive and says that he's trying to do what's best for me since I'm a rookie and wouldn't really know what to do with a chaos mage anyway. We argue about it for a while, and even the mild curiosity and intrigue I had for the game they all seem to really enjoy, was gone. I told him that I'd think about it and let him know by next weekend what I was gonna do. Should I even bother going back at this point? Like, the last thing I want to do is devote myself to this if all that's going to happen is me being coddled and being told what to do, instead of making my own choices and whatnot.
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Aug 20, 2019 02:24
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a neat cape posted:So I have a dilemma.
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Aug 20, 2019 02:47
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a neat cape posted:So I have a dilemma. That guy sounds like a condescending jerk and should probably either let you play the class/race combo you picked or, at minimum, work through exactly why it's off-tone and how and help you come up with something as close as possible while still retaining the parts you cared about. Or, you know, told you up front what the real permitted options were. But yeah, it also has zero to do with the World of Darkness. 
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Aug 20, 2019 02:48
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Oh, my bad, sorry.
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Aug 20, 2019 02:50
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a neat cape posted:Oh, my bad, sorry. I'd suggest getting your group to play v5
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Aug 20, 2019 02:53
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Metapod posted:I'd suggest getting your group to play v5 Just to let the prospective newcomer know where his money's going... V5 courted alt-right shitheads to help write it, although said people were kicked out of the company when they caused an international incident. So if that's a dealbreaker and you want to get into weird vampirey goth stuff you should try one of the Chronicles of Darkness games by Onyx Path Publishing such as Vampire the Requiem. Granted, OPP has its own share of problems (coughbeasttheprimordialcough), but courting fascists is not one of them to my knowledge. Anyone should feel free to correct me. a neat cape posted:Oh, my bad, sorry. Friendly Neighborhood Link to the 13th Age thread! Libertad! fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Aug 20, 2019 |
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Aug 20, 2019 03:13
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They also peppered the game with fogwhistles like rolling 1,4,8,8 in an example, a child NPC muslim terrorist posing as a refugee, suggestions of pedophilia, and a new (((globalist))) threat. The whole thing is super loving gross, slapped together over stupid LARP photos, and a heaping helping of swededracula's uh... flavor. Management was signing emails with "Blood and Souls," a play on the popular neo-nazi "Blood and Soil." Also they hired alleged pants-shitter and known trash person ZakS for a tie-in phone game!
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Aug 20, 2019 03:31
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To give the tiniest allowance for incompetence rather than the miasma of malice Swedracula expels, 'blood and souls' was also the battle cry of Elric, the original White Wolf. Well, "Blood and Souls for My Lord Arioch." Funny how he left off the last part. Real puzzler.
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Aug 20, 2019 06:24
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I've been running a high fever the last few days and don't remember making that Gangrel post. I am delighted that fever-me is indistinguishable from regular me in this thread.
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Aug 20, 2019 08:11
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Loomer posted:I've been running a high fever the last few days and don't remember making that Gangrel post. I am delighted that fever-me is indistinguishable from regular me in this thread. You're delighted now, but practically speaking that just means your fetch is getting really good at its Loomer impression.
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Aug 20, 2019 08:44
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