|
quote:Besides that, at the end of day all is at stake is the honor of a Japanese government that was destroyed before the vast majority of people alive today were even born. That kind of thing might be very important to guys like Abe whose entire origin myth is wrapped up in the Japanese Empire being secretly good but I can't imagine that any normal person younger than thirty could possibly care. On the other hand, although this is less mainstream, the right wing is ironically obsessed with the idea that post-war Japan is still being punished for ww2 and needs to step up and reclaim its status as a normal nation. For example in this case, although the connection may seem tenuous to sane people, commentator Tsukasa Jonen said on his youtube channel a couple days ago that by de-whitelisting South Korea, Japan had finally become a normal nation again. Unfortunately, presenting these issues as still having a huge impact on modern Japan's status enables the right wingers helps get younger people emotionally invested in denying Japan's history. Edit: Actually, something else just occurred to me: until a few years ago, it seemed like right wingers were constantly using the term "自虐史観" (which means something like "a masochistic view of history") to criticize discussions of bad stuff that Japan did during ww2, but I don't think I've seen this term at all in the last 4 years or so. Instead, there seems to be much more focus on the idea that the comfort women / forced labor issues are "lies" or "fabrications." However, I'm not sure if that's just because that term stopped being trendy or if there has been an intentional effort to reframe the issue in response to the exact issue you pointed out that younger people aren't going to be interested in "the honor of a Japanese government that was destroyed before the vast majority of people alive today were even born". mystes fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Aug 3, 2019 |
#
?
Aug 3, 2019 19:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 18:36 |
|
|
Some Guy TT posted:
Just an FYI: I was really interested in this documentary after you mentioned it so I contacted the director through his site -- he said he's planning to have a university tour in the U.S. with dates (hopefully) posted by the end of this month. For NYC specifically (where I live) he said he was aiming for Queens College and NYU.
|
|
#
?
Aug 9, 2019 12:51
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/annafifield/status/1161066400800235522?s=20
|
|
#
?
Aug 13, 2019 01:42
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/bbcworld/status/1162152157229043718?s=21 NK munitions workers currently painting “HAHA gently caress YOU SUCKERZ” on the side of an IRBM.
|
|
#
?
Aug 16, 2019 15:26
|
|
|
Oh no. Who could have possibly predicted the North Koreans would have reacted to us doing the thing they explicitly hate by they themselves doing the thing that we explicitly hate. Curse those inscrutable backstabbing orientals. There is simply no logic or reason to their actions save for their megalomaniacal desire for world domination.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2019 04:00
|
|
|
Some Guy TT posted:Oh no. Who could have possibly predicted the North Koreans would have reacted to us doing the thing they explicitly hate by they themselves doing the thing that we explicitly hate. Curse those inscrutable backstabbing orientals. There is simply no logic or reason to their actions save for their megalomaniacal desire for world domination. surely if we just say a few more completely weightless 'chairman kim is very cool and good' with no actual sanction relief or olive branches they'll stop doing the things we hate because we're doing the things they hate! Art of the deal baby!
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2019 04:02
|
|
|
on a less shitposty note how do south koreans even feel about the war games poo poo? Like, I can't imagine there's a ton of LOVE for them beyond a base 'well yea it's nice that the military is ready to protect us' from some. What do we/south korea lose by just...not doing these meaningless drills that serve only to make the north annoyed?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2019 04:04
|
|
|
If it weren't for the missile launches I'm not sure anyone would have even noticed they were going on. The news cycle is still dominated by the trade war with Japan. Speaking of which there's been an interesting pivot on that lately. Originally it was explicitly an anti-Japan boycott but increasingly protestors have made a point of this actually specifically being an anti-Abe boycott. I think people started to notice that there are indeed plenty of people in Japan who really hate Abe and are blaming him for the trade war, and also that Japanese media had been using protest footage to claim that Koreans irrationally hate the Japanese writ-large. Legit really weird to see cable news arguing for international class solidarity
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2019 04:28
|
|
|
Some Guy TT posted:If it weren't for the missile launches I'm not sure anyone would have even noticed they were going on. The news cycle is still dominated by the trade war with Japan. Yea I imagine that's bigger news, good for them sticking it to Abe so specifically. Not gonna change the minds of the hyper nationalist types but yea that move does shift the narrative from 'oh those drat Koreans just hate us Japanese so much' to 'oh, Abe's fuckin up'. I know it's more for the Japan thread but what is the makeup of Abe's biggest opposition these days? More conservatives who just are angry he's such a clown like it used to be or has an actual progressive opposition been hitting him these days?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2019 04:34
|
|
|
sexpig by night posted:on a less shitposty note how do south koreans even feel about the war games poo poo? Like, I can't imagine there's a ton of LOVE for them beyond a base 'well yea it's nice that the military is ready to protect us' from some. What do we/south korea lose by just...not doing these meaningless drills that serve only to make the north annoyed? It's a valid question. Here's my best attempt at an answer. The first thing to understand, if you're looking to figure out "why does the US/ROK do these massive drills" is that they actually aren't meaningless, from the perspective of the actual military commanders. One, they signal intent. There are a ton of day to day things that crop up in US/ROK relations, just because you have US (formally UN) bases all over South Korea, that can range from the minor to the serious but that, one after the other, might lead observers to think the alliance is weaker than it is. If the alliance is thought to be weak, deterrence is reduced, and deterrence is the name of the game. Two, they actually are needed to keep readiness up. The ROK drafts its troops for 21 months for its ground forces. US personnel usually serve 1 year or 2 year tours. The drills every year are vital in terms of getting the constant stream of new people oriented to how a war in Korea would actually work - they more or less simulate how a war would be fought at every level from the individual soldier to the ROK government as a whole. Three, the planning teaches huge lessons as much as the actual drills. These exercises take years to plan, which means that skipping a year or more means losing valuable institutional knowledge. So...yeah, they seem meaningless if you figure the DPRK would never attack. If you figure that the troops have to be ready to "Fight Tonight", though, as prudent commanders would? Then they're needed.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2019 05:03
|
|
|
Maybe North Korea should sign a peace treaty after 60 years if they don't want the people they are literally at war with to consider them a military target?
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2019 06:18
|
|
|
How to you boycott Abe? I would like to boycott Abe too.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2019 07:43
|
|
|
sexpig by night posted:I know it's more for the Japan thread but what is the makeup of Abe's biggest opposition these days? More conservatives who just are angry he's such a clown like it used to be or has an actual progressive opposition been hitting him these days? There is now (since October 2017) an explicitly center-left opposition party in the CDP, led by former DPJ guy Edano Yukio, and it does seem to be gaining momentum, albeit very slowly. It's had some success on a program of LGBT and minority rights, but it will need a more coherent economic policy which it doesn't have yet, also a foreign policy. The DPJ opposition to Abe's 2006 government was as you describe basically a Blairite/Clintonie center-right party whose platform was essentially "we're not quite as right-wing as Abe or Aso's LDP, Yay Deregulation, and the actual left will have vote for us no matter what because who the gently caress else are they going to vote for?" On economic policy they have a problem because the raison d'etre of the anti-LDP opposition for 20 years was Neoliberal Reform, and now it kind of seems like they were just wrong the whole time. Abe on coming back to power pulled the rug out from under them by returning to a non or at least less neoliberal policy of huge Keynesian monetary stimulus and neo-industrial policy of promoting new export industries and having the state tell companies how to run their businesses in the form of corporate governance reform, and it turns out it's worked pretty well. Not perfectly, but the 90s/00s-era consensus was that it absolutely could not and would not work and that the only option was neoliberal shock therapy with a shitload of companies going bankrupt, high unemployment and a deregulated labor market, and deflationary/hard monetary policy to make banks and financial capital more profitable. The opposition can't even credibly claim to just continue Abe's policy as it is, because they spent decades arguing the opposite. Edano himself was in the neoliberal wing of the DPJ and argued for all of that stuff in the late 90s and early 00s. It's hard to exaggerate the extent to which the default take on Japan's economy for 20 years was literally just copy-pasted from like 6 Economist articles from 1987-1993. On foreign policy they also have a problem because the DPJ officially supported constitutional revision and getting rid of Article 9, again the argument being "we're not THAT far-right like Abe's 2006 LDP so we can credibly have a normal military and other Asian countries won't think we're fascists". Edano supported this. At the same time though there's stuff like Okinawa that is a huge problem for the CDP because it's clear that the USA will not give up the base in Okinawa without a massive fight that no Japanese government will ever have the political capital to take on, but Okinawa is the one part of Japan where the progressive opposition to the LDP is actually strong, and the minority rights platform sort of obliges the CDP to stand up for the Okinawans. Trying to kick the US out of Okinawa was the first thing the DPJ decided to do when it entered office in 2009 and it killed their government instantaneously when Hillary's State Department told them to eat poo poo I do think this current fight with the ROK provides an opening for the CDP to say that they will repair relations with the ROK and have a more competent Korean foreign policy than Abe, in a deft sort of flanking-to-his-right sense. But that will be a hard needle to thread, not to mention assuming that relations stay bad. In theory I think they could actually do the same on China, if the Democrats win in 2020 and are much more aggressively anti-China, the CDP could get on that bandwagon. Edano himself, again, was on the right wing of his party on foreign policy in terms of hard-on-China-and-NK, but in this case it might actually be to his benefit The one piece of good news is that there's not really anyone to replace Abe in the LDP. There's his chief of staff/secretary Suga, who many people think is the real power behind the throne and seems to be much more reasonable and less of a right-wing ideologue than Abe, who is where a lot of the centrist policy seems to have come from, but he's 70 and isn't very popular either within the LDP or with the public. The faction leaders are all clowns, not as grotesque or incompetent as the mid-2000s lineup but still not serious candidates for PM. More good news is that most of them are less right wing than Abe, and are from the old centrist factions that have been out of power for decades. Abe's right wing faction has not produced any successors. Koizumi Shinjiro, son of the former PM, is very popular with the public but he's too young to succeed Abe So basically Japanese politics is just biding time until Abe leaves office in 2021. There will probably be an opportunity for the CDP at that point, but only if they have a coherent economic and foreign policy. Unfortunately Edano is very much a How Dare You Sir type of liberal whose argument against Abe is not based on any substantive policy but on procedural and normative complaints, never mind those procedures and norms were mostly made up by the LDP in the 1960s, so he's fighting on enemy terrain to begin with. I don't think he has any meaningful brain trust on economic policy like say Corbyn and Mcdonnell in the UK, or Abe and Suga, and that's what will end up crippling him and his party. In a longer-term perspective there has never actually been an opposition to the LDP that's advocated the kind of pro-American geopolitics and humane, weakly pro-labor welfare capitalism that the Western commentariat thinks is obvious (the troll answer is that such a party exists, it's called the LDP), and although the CDP does seem to be moving in that direction it's still very very slow going Here's a good overview as well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DKs9UCSwGDA icantfindaname fucked around with this message at 09:45 on Aug 17, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2019 09:36
|
|
|
tino posted:How to you boycott Abe? I would like to boycott Abe too. Don't shop at him ever. Not even once.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2019 10:43
|
|
|
Good post. It might be very useful also in the Japan thread, it pointed out stuff I never figured out reading that thread.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2019 15:26
|
|
|
Spacewolf posted:It's a valid question. Here's my best attempt at an answer. Weird how it's of critical importance that we be allowed to practice taking over North Korea on a regular schedule to maintain our readiness but North Korea running tests of short range missiles owned by just about every serious military on the planet is an affront to world peace. Why, it's almost as if there's no meaningful difference between these actions and asserting that one is necessary and the other is provocative is a completely arbitrary construction used to rationalize why american foreign policy people are so offended at the idea that other countries might work actively to defend themselves instead of just groveling at our feet and hoping we mercifully decide not to eradicate a country that willingly nerfed their own military in the hopes of inspiring our good favor.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2019 15:43
|
|
|
Some Guy TT posted:Weird how it's of critical importance that we be allowed to practice taking over North Korea on a regular schedule to maintain our readiness but North Korea running tests of short range missiles owned by just about every serious military on the planet is an affront to world peace. Why, it's almost as if there's no meaningful difference between these actions and asserting that one is necessary and the other is provocative is a completely arbitrary construction used to rationalize why american foreign policy people are so offended at the idea that other countries might work actively to defend themselves instead of just groveling at our feet and hoping we mercifully decide not to eradicate a country that willingly nerfed their own military in the hopes of inspiring our good favor.
|
|
#
?
Aug 17, 2019 19:44
|
|
|
Some Guy TT posted:Weird how it's of critical importance that we be allowed to practice taking over North Korea on a regular schedule to maintain our readiness but North Korea running tests of short range missiles owned by just about every serious military on the planet is an affront to world peace. The drills practice defending the South against a northen invasion, they don't practice an offensive to take over the North.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2019 00:21
|
|
|
Charlz Guybon posted:The drills practice defending the South against a northen invasion, they don't practice an offensive to take over the North. the looming northern invasion
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2019 00:27
|
|
|
Charlz Guybon posted:The drills practice defending the South against a northen invasion, they don't practice an offensive to take over the North. This is a little dubious.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2019 01:15
|
|
|
fishmech posted:Maybe North Korea should sign a peace treaty after 60 years if they don't want the people they are literally at war with to consider them a military target?
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2019 01:35
|
|
|
Charlz Guybon posted:The drills practice defending the South against a northen invasion, they don't practice an offensive to take over the North. Apparently the current drills (as in the ones that started a couple of days ago) are working from a hypothetical situation involving counter-insurgency operations after North Korea has already been conquered. What little footage we have of previous drills suggests that a major component of them has involved amphibious landings, which aren't terribly useful to practice in a defensive context given that North Korea has no navy to speak of.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2019 03:10
|
|
|
Some Guy TT posted:Apparently the current drills (as in the ones that started a couple of days ago) are working from a hypothetical situation involving counter-insurgency operations after North Korea has already been conquered. What little footage we have of previous drills suggests that a major component of them has involved amphibious landings, which aren't terribly useful to practice in a defensive context given that North Korea has no navy to speak of.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2019 13:03
|
|
|
Some Guy TT posted:Apparently the current drills (as in the ones that started a couple of days ago) are working from a hypothetical situation involving counter-insurgency operations after North Korea has already been conquered.  Okay, let's pretend we just conquered the North. Hey, they're getting upset over this! Who could have possibly foreseen such a thing.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2019 14:05
|
|
|
Megillah Gorilla posted:
Less about conquering the North, more about South Korea wanting to have a plan to govern the North if things fall apart. This includes dealing with armed groups/holdouts and how to administrate it without imploding the economy or pissing off China too much. Also, yes, amphibious landings have a huge role to play in South Korean defensive operations, in part because South Korean/US/UN forces would likely have control of the sea. Just the possibility of an amphibious counter-attack means the DPRK has to account for leaving a shitload of troops behind to protect the coasts in any theoretical invasion plan to avoid Incheon 2.0. This means it's a very good capability to have and running exercises to maintain it remains useful/valuable. Whether it's worth giving them up for whatever has been given in return is a very different and more relevant question that has nothing to do with how many ships the DPRK has. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 23:43 on Aug 19, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2019 18:15
|
|
|
Missing the forests for the trees for 200 Alex.
|
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2019 18:28
|
|
|
Raenir Salazar posted:Missing the forests for the trees for 200 Alex. Nah, I'm guessing framing the exercises as focusing on a "conquered" DPRK scenario isn't so much missing the forest for the trees and more just run of the mill intellectual dishonesty. Whereas thinking practice for amphib landings in a defensive context isn't useful due to the potential opponent having a lovely Navy could just be a remarkable lack of understanding. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 18:50 on Aug 19, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 19, 2019 18:46
|
|
|
Maybe we should practice using nukes too. Think of all the resources the North Koreans would have to spend defending against such a counter strategy, and how it would help us focus on governing instead of conquering.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 03:02
|
|
|
Warbadger posted:Nah, I'm guessing framing the exercises as focusing on a "conquered" DPRK scenario isn't so much missing the forest for the trees and more just run of the mill intellectual dishonesty. Whereas thinking practice for amphib landings in a defensive context isn't useful due to the potential opponent having a lovely Navy could just be a remarkable lack of understanding. I think you're failing to see how this would come off as to the country it is directed to as completely tone deaf.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 03:06
|
|
|
Some Guy TT posted:Maybe we should practice using nukes too. Think of all the resources the North Koreans would have to spend defending against such a counter strategy, and how it would help us focus on governing instead of conquering. Every country with nukes practices using nukes. Launch drills and exercises are a frequent occurence. Some, including North Korea, even do live launches of nuclear capable missiles with dummy payloads. Normally it's done in much less provacative ways - but it's well understood that despite their bluster even the DPRK isn't starting a nuclear war when they lob a missile or two out to sea. It's part of demonstrating the capability to create a credible deterrent and ensuring adequate training necessary to maintain it. Warbadger fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Aug 20, 2019 |
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 05:51
|
|
|
How exactly could North Korea launch missiles in a less provocative way?
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 06:57
|
|
|
Some Guy TT posted:How exactly could North Korea launch missiles in a less provocative way? Set up a giant slide-whistle to go off as the missile leaves the launcher.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 10:46
|
|
|
Some Guy TT posted:How exactly could North Korea launch missiles in a less provocative way? The second part is a little tricky for the DPRK considering their geographic location. Unless of course the PRC wants to volunteer to let them overfly Chinese territory.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 13:11
|
|
|
Rent-A-Cop posted:Announce tests well in advance and fire the missiles in trajectories that don't overfly other countries. You know, like everyone else does. And don't accompany launches with CG animation of the United States being nuked and constant threats to drown other countries in nuclear fire should they be provoked.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 14:32
|
|
|
Some Guy TT posted:Apparently the current drills (as in the ones that started a couple of days ago) are working from a hypothetical situation involving counter-insurgency operations after North Korea has already been conquered. What little footage we have of previous drills suggests that a major component of them has involved amphibious landings, which aren't terribly useful to practice in a defensive context given that North Korea has no navy to speak of. Why bother,? Just hand it to Black Water/Xi/Vought America to handle them.
|
|
#
?
Aug 20, 2019 14:55
|
|
|
sexpig by night posted:the looming northern invasion Hey, if you ask the "experts", Kim is irrational https://twitter.com/NarangVipin/status/1161942089111760897 What a loving dumbass
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2019 01:42
|
|
|
Considering how long South Korean presidents last, Moon announcing a plan to work towards unification in 2045 is completely meaningless anyway.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2019 02:41
|
|
|
mystes posted:Considering how long South Korean presidents last, Moon announcing a plan to work towards unification in 2045 is completely meaningless anyway.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2019 07:43
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/AP/status/1164471126967365632?s=19 Japan-South Korean relations not improving.
|
|
#
?
Aug 22, 2019 11:03
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 18:36 |
|
|
OhFunny posted:https://twitter.com/AP/status/1164471126967365632?s=19
|
|
#
?
Aug 23, 2019 01:21
|
|