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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:The protesters individually, i dont know. There's probably a bunch of color revolution types who are getting burned by the west pour encourager les autres but haven't realized it yet or don't care. Ok cool so you haven't actually listened to anyone directly involved and you're imagining a bunch of random poo poo
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Aug 16, 2019 07:53
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No I'm sure they're just protesting in hopes of getting a robust public housing system.
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Aug 16, 2019 09:13
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Bloodnose posted:No I'm sure they're just protesting in hopes of getting a robust public housing system. I don't think Singapore is capable of taking Hong Kong though.
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Aug 16, 2019 13:28
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I suppose it's possible that the CCP leadership makes hk real estate owners take one for the team, but since those two groups are almost exactly the same people it seems unlikely.
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Aug 17, 2019 08:36
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Devils Affricate posted:Ok cool so you haven't actually listened to anyone directly involved and you're imagining a bunch of random poo poo Anecdotal, but I have canto friends here saying the same thing. Inequality and the cost of living has spiraled out of control. The reason that mainlanders have been mollified under CPC rule is that standards of living have increased for a lot of people. HKers have experienced the opposite trajectory.
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Aug 17, 2019 21:01
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on the mainland when ostentatious millionaires act out too much they get shot, that cannot happen in HK, anyway that’s why the two systems policy is the problem and not the mainland government.
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Aug 18, 2019 01:15
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DOCTOR ZIMBARDO posted:on the mainland when ostentatious millionaires act out too much they get shot, that cannot happen in HK, anyway that’s why the two systems policy is the problem and not the mainland government. Idk they might also be concerned about a government currently ethnically cleansing one region from gaining more control over theirs
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Aug 18, 2019 07:24
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http://www.twitter.com/cctv/status/1162631628960587776 e: I have no idea how to embed the tweet, but lol.
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Aug 18, 2019 22:49
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pointsofdata posted:Idk they might also be concerned about a government currently ethnically cleansing one region from gaining more control over theirs One?
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Aug 19, 2019 01:14
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both Singapore and Hong Kong inherited the midcentury colonial legacy switch from 999/perpetual freehold to granting only 99 (or fewer) year leases on more recent plots one peculiarity that seems to have erupted since the 2010s that that Singapore has doubled down on telling landowners: yes your 60 year leases granted in the 1960s are going to expire soon and no there will be no extensions or compensation when it reverts to the state. Baby give it up give it up baby give it up. That is, the government is intent on recapturing the underlying value of land - "no compensation" is the keyword and Hong Kong seems to have moved in the opposite direction of assuring 2047 leaseholders that actually it's perpetual - the battle seems instead over whether the two-systems government can credibly bind the post-2047 government to such a promise, the concept of "no additional premium" lease extensions seems to be the prevailing one hence even though Hong Kong theoretically has a stronger state claim to the underlying land than Singapore (HK has few perpetual/999 lots compared to Singapore), it doesn't seem that HK is willing to use it ronya fucked around with this message at 04:06 on Aug 20, 2019 |
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Aug 19, 2019 07:38
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https://thegrayzone.com/2019/08/17/hong-kong-protest-washington-nativism-violence/ Good article at the grayzone about some of the quisling dorks running this thing. Stocking fucked around with this message at 12:24 on Aug 19, 2019 |
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Aug 19, 2019 07:56
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Stocking posted:https://thegrayzone.com/2019/08/17/hong-kong-protest-washington-nativism-violence/ I gave a read and stopped here: quote:The protesters’ stated goals remain vague Cool another article by some dumbshit commentator who doesn't even know how to wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Hong_Kong_anti-extradition_bill_protests#Objectives Ok I skimmed thru the rest of the poo poo and it's just unsubstantiated attacks on Jimmy Lai and Joshua Wong and a bunch of tweets from Carl Zha, if I wanted to read that poo poo I would've just browsed peven stan's post history lmfao. Looks like tankies can't whip their brains around a leaderless movement so they dig thru a bunch of poo poo from the organisers of the 2014 protests to get some content in instead Kill All Cops fucked around with this message at 08:49 on Aug 19, 2019 |
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Aug 19, 2019 08:43
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You want a few thousand words of really good tankie bullshit to read? http://www.fightbacknews.org/2019/8/17/hong-kong-protests-are-attack-socialism My favorite part is when they say you can tell it's a rich kids' protest against socialism because the FTU opposes it.
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Aug 19, 2019 09:50
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There's a lot of bullshit but this is the worst onequote:Organizers from the Civil Human Rights Front, the umbrella opposition group leading most of the protests, called for a ‘general strike’ on August 5. The strike failed to materialize but ensuing riots caused enormous damage to public infrastructure and local businesses. Failed to materialize, that's why I was given like a half day and we had like 3 people in the office out of usual 20+. And the enormous damage was the construction barriers being moved around to block roads and graffiti being sprayed on government buildings, didn't see any poo poo happening to local businesses at all. But apparently since it's not recognised by the socialist voice of authority the FTU it doesn't count as a general strike. quote:They have made crystal clear what they mean by ‘reclaiming Hong Kong’ by deploying racist slurs against Han Chinese and openly pining for a return to British colonialism. lol
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Aug 19, 2019 10:20
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Bloodnose posted:You want a few thousand words of really good tankie bullshit to read? My friend who grew up in Hong Kong(white) post-handover booked some flights there just after the protests started, here is there now for a week and it will be interesting for his take on how it is. He is fluent in Cantonese so he gets about quiet easily. The general opinion he gets is that everything is always getting worse. So no different to here.
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Aug 19, 2019 10:25
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Budzilla posted:I don't get why tankies throw their support behind authoritarian rulers when they pay lip service to their ideology. If they were smart they'd not be tankies OP. Coz if they were smart they'd be libcoms.
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Aug 19, 2019 10:36
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Lady Galaga posted:There's a lot of bullshit but this is the worst one Wheeling check in counters around is equivalent to the Holocaust so graffiti is basically a nuclear apocalypse
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Aug 19, 2019 10:49
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Budzilla posted:I don't get why tankies throw their support behind authoritarian rulers when they pay lip service to their ideology. the authoritarianism is the point
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Aug 19, 2019 15:41
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Budzilla posted:I don't get why tankies throw their support behind authoritarian rulers when they pay lip service to their ideology. That is not surprise, the essence of being the Tankie is that you support throwing out nominal ideology in support of some leader who nakedly seeks the power. In the stated ideology of the Soviet Union, the tanks should not have been rolled into the streets of Budapest or Prague, naturally.
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Aug 19, 2019 16:59
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https://mobile.twitter.com/SameeraKhan/status/1163561746658971649
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Aug 20, 2019 02:47
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Sameera Khan being someone who has previously defended Joseph Stalin and posted stuff about his gulags apparently. She's a correspondent on RT News, a "Political Scientist" and former Miss NJ.
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Aug 20, 2019 02:53
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Aug 20, 2019 03:00
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I am increasingly certain Western governments as they descent into corporate dystopia will embrace China more and more as a "How To".
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Aug 20, 2019 03:04
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Take a look at Trump. As he rose to power on Nationalism you have Brazil and India following suit, you had Brexit and now Boris Johnson. China is going to be a model for how to bring populations under heel.
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Aug 20, 2019 03:07
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Raenir Salazar posted:I am increasingly certain Western governments as they descent into corporate dystopia will embrace China more and more as a "How To". Just a few years ago, it was fashionable among a certain brand of American centrist to admire the Chinese brand of authoritarianism. Tom Friedman posted:As far as I’m concerned, China’s system of government is inferior to ours in every respect — except one. That is the ability of China’s current generation of leaders — if they want — to cut through all their legacy industries, all the pleading special interests, all the bureaucratic obstacles, all the worries of a voter backlash, and simply order top-down the sweeping changes in prices, regulations, standards, education, and infrastructure that China’s long-term strategic national interests — changes that would normally take Western democracies years or decades to debate and implement. Chaz Freeman posted:[T]he truly unforgivable mistake of the Chinese authorities was the failure to intervene on a timely basis to nip the demonstrations in the bud, rather than -- as would have been both wise and efficacious -- to intervene with force when all other measures had failed to restore domestic tranquility to Beijing and other major urban centers in China. In this optic, the Politburo's response to the mob scene at 'Tian'anmen' stands as a monument to overly cautious behavior on the part of the leadership, not as an example of rash action. . . . Though the latter quote prevented Freeman from becoming Chairman of the National Intelligence Council, albeit in combination with being insufficiently pro-Israel, so there was a limit to how openly you could say that sort of thing. Silver2195 fucked around with this message at 03:27 on Aug 20, 2019 |
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Aug 20, 2019 03:23
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It's really something how easily people take to fascism if you call it something else. And also if you call it fascism but that's for another thread.
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Aug 20, 2019 03:41
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WTF, somebody from the dipolmatic corp said CCP didn't Tiananmen hard enough in Tiananmen. Now I have heard everything. And his last name is loving Freeman.
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Aug 20, 2019 04:18
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Chazz it up.
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Aug 20, 2019 04:31
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Lady Galaga posted:anti-imperialist quote:Tibet is China Hmmm
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Aug 20, 2019 06:06
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I do have some sympathy for the view that the Chinese government can cut through a whole lot of vested interests that western countries can’t. On the other hand, since it’s beholden to a completely different set of vested interests and there is no mechanism for checking the arbitrary exercise of power, net-net I’m not sure it’s a big improvement.
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Aug 20, 2019 08:18
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Beefeater1980 posted:I do have some sympathy for the view that the Chinese government can cut through a whole lot of vested interests that western countries can’t. the coldest take
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Aug 20, 2019 08:43
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I don't think he's personally taking agnostic authoritarianism as a political position, though Friedman supporting authoritarians for the purposes of being pragmatic and cutting the bureaucracy is pretty much one of the reasons Trump was voted into the Oval Office.
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Aug 20, 2019 08:57
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On one hand, liberal democracy seems to be completely failing in every respect, in every developed country, so it's hard to blame China for largely thinking, "Nope".
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Aug 20, 2019 13:51
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Raenir Salazar posted:On one hand, liberal democracy seems to be completely failing in every respect, in every developed country, so it's hard to blame China for largely thinking, "Nope". I mean, this has almost nothing to do with why China rejects liberal democracy. But if it were, it would be very easy to say "yuck, dude, it is in fact very easy to blame a bunch of large scale human rights abuses committing authoritarians for retrofitting that excuse as to why they're increasingly dictatorship-ey"
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Aug 20, 2019 14:26
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Kavros posted:I mean, this has almost nothing to do with why China rejects liberal democracy. But if it were, it would be very easy to say "yuck, dude, it is in fact very easy to blame a bunch of large scale human rights abuses committing authoritarians for retrofitting that excuse as to why they're increasingly dictatorship-ey"
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Aug 20, 2019 14:56
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Democracies also seem perfectly willing to also set up those camps? I'm not saying China has a good system of government, but Churchill's quip about "Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…" does have a darker additional meaning to it in retrospect.
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Aug 20, 2019 15:58
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Raenir Salazar posted:Democracies also seem perfectly willing to also set up those camps? I'm not saying China has a good system of government, but Churchill's quip about "Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…" does have a darker additional meaning to it in retrospect. Churchill wasn't wrong
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Aug 20, 2019 16:22
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Gatts posted:Take a look at Trump. As he rose to power on Nationalism you have Brazil and India following suit, you had Brexit and now Boris Johnson. China is going to be a model for how to bring populations under heel. India elected Modi before any of those other shitbags happened.
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Aug 20, 2019 16:25
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GreyjoyBastard posted:India elected Modi before any of those other shitbags happened. Yes but I should clarify look at what is happening in Kashmir now and during the elections that they stir poo poo up with Pakistan to drum support and are giving into the hardliners
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Aug 20, 2019 16:35
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here's some actual good left-wing analysis: https://newpol.org/localisms-contradictions-in-hong-kong/
vanity slug fucked around with this message at 16:57 on Aug 20, 2019 |
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Aug 20, 2019 16:54
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