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Duck and Cover posted:I wish games would focus more on showing game play in their marketing pictures/videos. Like I remember when I could look at those pictures on the box and get an idea of what the game is. Now a days it's cutscenes/UI removed shots but I guess it works because every game seems to do that. Apparently giving the consumer less information leads to more sales. Just go to youtube and watch someone play. It's like some online paradigm where if you do price comparisons to get the best deal it's all available but you have to manually search and research everything and corporations aren't going to do it for you, in fact they will swing the other way hoping to exploit peoples' laziness. Duck and Cover posted:AAA games don't have demos because they would gain nothing through having demos. I 'm unconvinced there are enough people on the fence for Assassin Creed 20th cooler hoodie edition that would be become buyers if there was a demo and I imagine the numbers support my belief. (because if they didn't the big money making companies would totally put the demos out) Hard to demo when they can't complete games keeping them in eternal Early Access even after the official release, modern games are so broken that making a smaller working version is hopeless. Dr. Video Games 0112 fucked around with this message at 21:31 on Aug 21, 2019 |
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Aug 21, 2019 21:28
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Dr. Video Games 0112 posted:Hard to demo when they can't complete games keeping them in eternal Early Access even after the official release, modern games are so broken that making a smaller working version is hopeless.  Being in EA can destroy goodwill for upcoming games, too. Subnautica spent 3 years in Early Access (well beyond the point where the story and assets were 'complete'), and left Early Access, and it's still just packed with bugs, many of them gamebreaking. Now the sequel is in Early Access, but it's the exact same engine so all the bugs are still there, and it doesn't look like fixing them is even remotely a priority for the devs.
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Aug 21, 2019 21:34
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A few that have been on my mind:
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Aug 21, 2019 21:40
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As a person who's not particularly interested in Subnautica, buthas heard a bunch about it through internet gamer osmosis, thaat post is literally the first negative thing I've ever read about Subnautica, so I don't think they're destroying any goodwill.
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Aug 21, 2019 21:41
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I blame MMOs for making 'beta' releases be a thing. Nobody played a beta version of Mario kart or anything, but I remember talking about WoW beta for years and years.
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Aug 21, 2019 21:49
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feelix posted:As a person who's not particularly interested in Subnautica, buthas heard a bunch about it through internet gamer osmosis, thaat post is literally the first negative thing I've ever read about Subnautica, so I don't think they're destroying any goodwill. I mean I'm extremely hesitant to spend money on the sequel specifically because of it, as are several people I've talked to who played it. You don't have to look hard, there's a Subnautica thread in Games and there's no shortage of people talking about how buggy the game can be, as well as mods specifically designed to fix broken things that the devs never bothered fixing. Maybe I should have specified, in that case I meant they were destroying goodwill with people who played it and were considering the sequel. Don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic game, but this is a list of bugs compiled by 1 person, from the 1.0 (aka "we are out of early access and consider the game complete") release. Hell, it's a year and a half after the 1.0 release and AFAIK there's still memory leak issues and massive framerate dips even on high-end systems. e: it's a great game and deserves praise but it's broken as gently caress and that's not exactly a big secret
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Aug 21, 2019 21:54
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Snow Cone Capone posted:I mean I'm extremely hesitant to spend money on the sequel specifically because of it, as are several people I've talked to who played it. You don't have to look hard, there's a Subnautica thread in Games and there's no shortage of people talking about how buggy the game can be, as well as mods specifically designed to fix broken things that the devs never bothered fixing.
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Aug 21, 2019 21:58
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Dr. Video Games 0112 posted:Just go to youtube and watch someone play. It's like some online paradigm where if you do price comparisons to get the best deal it's all available but you have to manually search and research everything and corporations aren't going to do it for you, in fact they will swing the other way hoping to exploit peoples' laziness. Jokes on them I am lazy and if they can't be bothered to post actual game play I can't be bothered to go hunt for someone playing it.
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Aug 21, 2019 22:13
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Man I miss cool demos
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Aug 21, 2019 22:15
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JollyBoyJohn posted:Man I miss cool demos It's not an exaggeration either. There was a couple cases where a company would release a demo and it turns out it was a shareware type situation where it was the actual full game with most content locked away and would be promptly pirated straight from the demo by anyone with the will to. I dont know if it has to do with the overall programming competence, scale or inflexibility of modern games but my guess would be you won't see a revival of the practice.
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Aug 21, 2019 22:23
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Dr. Video Games 0112 posted:It's not an exaggeration either. There was a couple cases where a company would release a demo and it turns out it was a shareware type situation where it was the actual full game with most content locked away and would be promptly pirated straight from the demo by anyone with the will to. I recently had to re-download all my PS3 games and I think that practice was limited to indie games that were small files even for the full game. All the <1GB "indie" games I redownloaded were full-size demos and then a 1kb "full version unlock" file.
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Aug 21, 2019 22:27
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doctorfrog posted:A few that have been on my mind: Divinity's Reach in Guild Wars 2 is a game city done right. It feels absolutely massive through a combination of a large explorable area and huge towering backdrops. It even makes the other cities in Guild Wars 2 look like tiny garbage, never mind stuff like Solitude in Skyrim which is supposed to be the capital city but has a population of like twenty.
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Aug 21, 2019 22:32
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Snow Cone Capone posted:I recently had to re-download all my PS3 games and I think that practice was limited to indie games that were small files even for the full game. All the <1GB "indie" games I redownloaded were full-size demos and then a 1kb "full version unlock" file. It's definitely much easier to do that than try to make a small "demo" version of a full game, especially of modern AAA scale and have any hope of it passing all the stringent standards that come with that, all the marketing squads that will nitpick it. You have to consider that in the age of demos, most games WERE <1GB indie games and AAA didn't really exist when the industry was much smaller.
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Aug 21, 2019 22:37
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JollyBoyJohn posted:Man I miss cool demos 
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Aug 21, 2019 22:39
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Also, if your open world game has big cities, there should be some farmland somewhere on your map, maybe a dang river, simulate a little road traffic
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Aug 21, 2019 22:41
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I remember trying diablo 2 outside a store, getting a little skeleton army going and saying YEP, bought it right then and there.
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Aug 21, 2019 22:44
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Snow Cone Capone posted:
I wouldn't say Subnautica is "packed" with bugs. I played through the whole game and I think I got stuck in a wall once? Had to reload that one time.
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Aug 21, 2019 23:55
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jokes posted:I blame MMOs for making 'beta' releases be a thing. Nobody played a beta version of Mario kart or anything, but I remember talking about WoW beta for years and years. Nah, those are actual betas with the goal of stress testing and limited qa. The trend of selling your broken, incomplete mess of a product as a "beta" is 100% on minecraft.
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Aug 22, 2019 01:39
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Minecraft and ksp were both amazing throughout early access, got continuous updates for years and are nothing like the subsequent lovely early access cash grabs. If every early access game followed the mc/ksp model there would be nothing to complain about E: Minecraft didn't stagnate in a pile of its own poo poo until after it left beta, ironically poverty goat fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Aug 22, 2019 |
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Aug 22, 2019 02:24
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doctorfrog posted:A few that have been on my mind: I feel like Daggerfall is the only game I've ever seen that really does this, and I still think it's really cool even though all of the NPCs are pretty much the same entity. I think I prefer games that have smaller and more focused NPCs but I'm glad Daggerfall exists. The small size of cities in most games doesn't really bother me if they do a good job of implying that there's more, but you're only seeing a scaled down representation of that, but it seems like a tricky thing to pull off.
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Aug 22, 2019 05:08
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doctorfrog posted:A few that have been on my mind: So there are no complete 4X games
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Aug 22, 2019 05:51
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Yea I was about to say the same thing, expecting a 4X AI to be a player-drop-in (similar to a Chess AI) is totally unrealistic and no title in 4X history has even attempted to do so. They all "cheat", one way or another, for good reason. That's not to excuse the most recent batch of 4X titles for having totally anemic AI, however! Just have sane expectations, is all.
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Aug 22, 2019 10:46
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doctorfrog posted:A few that have been on my mind: These both stem from technical limitations & won't possibly be solved broadly until every gaming device across platforms can be assumed to have a fast CPU with a bunch of extra cores available. Hitman 2 has a slider in the settings to use up to 8 extra CPU cores to improve the city crowds and 3d audio simulation to make the city bustle and that's probably what the future looks like for your second gripe poverty goat fucked around with this message at 13:50 on Aug 22, 2019 |
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Aug 22, 2019 13:16
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appropriatemetaphor posted:I wouldn't say Subnautica is "packed" with bugs. I played through the whole game and I think I got stuck in a wall once? Had to reload that one time. I think it's been a running theme in the thread that either you have a relatively smooth gameplay experience with only a few bugs to take you out of it, or the game goes crazy and screws you over at every opportunity, with little in between. A lot of the issues are a result of Subnautica changing direction in development quite a bit, leaving a lot of vestigial features and problems from an engine that isn't optimal for what they ended up doing but it's too late to change now.
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Aug 22, 2019 13:31
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poverty goat posted:These both stem from technical limitations & won't possibly be solved broadly until every gaming device across platforms can be assumed to have a fast CPU with a bunch of extra cores available. Hitman 2 has a slider in the settings to use up to 8 extra CPU cores to improve the city crowds and 3d audio simulation to make the city bustle and that's probably what the future looks like for your second gripe It's not even technical- the game knowledge required to code an AI that will compete with skilled players, particularly given that game mechanics change over the dev cycle, is insanely difficult and any dev that knows what optimal play looks like before the game releases has probably released an incredibly shallow game in the first place.
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Aug 22, 2019 14:10
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Panzeh posted:It's not even technical- the game knowledge required to code an AI that will compete with skilled players, particularly given that game mechanics change over the dev cycle, is insanely difficult and any dev that knows what optimal play looks like before the game releases has probably released an incredibly shallow game in the first place. It's a technical problem and a programming problem and nobody's going to tackle the programming problem when only a tiny percentage of players have an overpowered PC that could do it in a timely manner and none of the consoles are even in the right ballpark. And it might be inappropriate to assume that today's overpowered PC could get there poverty goat fucked around with this message at 14:31 on Aug 22, 2019 |
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Aug 22, 2019 14:23
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It's either that or just do an absolute shitload of scripting that you have to update with every single change and the players will probably figure out how to break anyway. I think the Pokemon games in later and endgame content especially have enemy trainers who start acting more like player ones, using popular meta tactics and actually switching out Pokemon when tactically advantageous. Making a game feel 'alive' is very much all about smoke and mirrors, and getting the most payoff from the least effort.
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Aug 22, 2019 14:37
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I can't wait for true AI opponents. Let Civilization 7 be the first game that nobody has ever, ever beaten the computer in.
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Aug 22, 2019 15:17
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Panzeh posted:It's not even technical- the game knowledge required to code an AI that will compete with skilled players, particularly given that game mechanics change over the dev cycle, is insanely difficult and any dev that knows what optimal play looks like before the game releases has probably released an incredibly shallow game in the first place. I booted up civ6 for the first time and put it on the second highest difficulty. The AI just meandered around uselessly because it doesn't know how to capture cities and I absolutely crushed the game. I have no idea what I'm doing when I play civ6 (don't use any guides or builds or anything remotely resembling optimal play). The AI can't even compete with players that have 0 understanding of the game, let alone "optimal" play.
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Aug 22, 2019 15:58
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I seem to recall one of the Galactic Civ games saying their AI doesn't cheat. But it will micro manage and min/max the poo poo out of everything to beat you.
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Aug 22, 2019 16:06
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bamhand posted:I seem to recall one of the Galactic Civ games saying their AI doesn't cheat. But it will micro manage and min/max the poo poo out of everything to beat you. any decent galactic 4x game will let you assign parts of the micro-management to the AI, so you can forget about mineral management and play the fun parts of the game. so the AI better not be cheating!
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Aug 22, 2019 16:23
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Dr. Carwash posted:I booted up civ6 for the first time and put it on the second highest difficulty. The AI just meandered around uselessly because it doesn't know how to capture cities and I absolutely crushed the game. I have no idea what I'm doing when I play civ6 (don't use any guides or builds or anything remotely resembling optimal play). The AI can't even compete with players that have 0 understanding of the game, let alone "optimal" play. Yeah this is when poo poo is unacceptable. A 4x AI doesn't need to be able challenge an expert human player without bonuses. I mean if it can, great! It's just not a reasonable expectation for most games at this time. But what is a reasonable expectation in that an AI doesn't completely embarrass itself at every turn and can actually navigate the basic mechanics of the game. An AI that is fundamentally incapable of capturing a city is broken. There is no excuse for it.
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Aug 22, 2019 16:36
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Playing open mic multiplayer is fun and no one is ever rude.
tango alpha delta fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Aug 22, 2019 |
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Aug 22, 2019 17:39
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tango alpha delta posted:While defeating members of the opposing team, I was treated, nay, given a grand tour to a vast cornucopia of highly spirited invective. Source your quotes
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Aug 22, 2019 17:55
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Source your quotes Some random pretentious guy. tango alpha delta fucked around with this message at 22:07 on Aug 22, 2019 |
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Aug 22, 2019 18:00
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tango alpha delta posted:Uh, my brain to my keyboard, I guess. I seem to wax eloquent when I'm pissed off. I would say lurk more, but
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Aug 22, 2019 21:37
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tango alpha delta posted:Uh, my brain to my keyboard, I guess. I seem to wax eloquent when I'm pissed off. eloquent is a weird name for a penis, but if that's what you call it
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Aug 22, 2019 21:39
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tango alpha delta posted:Uh, my brain to my keyboard, I guess. I seem to wax eloquent when I'm pissed off. come on man I gave you an out even
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Aug 22, 2019 21:45
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I guess now we know what it would sound like if Frasier got owned in Call of Duty.
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Aug 22, 2019 21:45
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tango alpha delta posted:Playing open mic multiplayer is fun and no one is ever rude. lmbo why would you edit your post when it's already been quoted god you're a weenie tell me what games you play so I can pk you.
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Aug 22, 2019 22:12
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