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Even if Steam was more discerning on what games they let through the storefront would still be useless for finding new games. Like, it's not difficult to find games on steam because of "self-published BS", it's difficult to find anything because the market is flooded with "ok but unremarkable" games and there is no world where steam would start blocking those. Steam doesn't really surface the shovelware right now unless you specifically go looking for it. Andrast fucked around with this message at 09:36 on Aug 23, 2019 |
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Aug 23, 2019 09:33
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indie games are on epic because epic looks at what games are the most wishlisted on steam and then poach them, it has nothing to do with curation they still don't have any browsing functionality, it's still just a big infinite canvas front page. i didnt even know there was a lovely rollercoaster tycoon (Adventures) on there until like the 20th time i visited and scrolled around. how would you ever find anything on there. it's completely random and arbitrary
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Aug 23, 2019 09:35
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Craptacular! posted:Hades is on there and made exclusive because Supergiant has proven themselves in the other marketplace. Hyper Light Drifter is on there because it has sold so well and been so well received over many platforms. Two games that I don't care about at all and are just noise on any store to me. Of course I think it's a collosally stupid idea for a store to only sell games that I, personally, am interested in so it doesn't bother me at all. Why would I care a store sells things I don't want? That's ridiculous.
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Aug 23, 2019 09:45
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Craptacular! posted:Hades is on there and made exclusive because Supergiant has proven themselves in the other marketplace. Hyper Light Drifter is on there because it has sold so well and been so well received over many platforms. You chose a spectacularly poor example in the form of Amazon considering Amazon is the actual literal face of self-pub for authors Hell the erotica market on Amazon is even rumoured to be wildly profitable if you're willing to write the right kind of porny schlock.
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Aug 23, 2019 09:53
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..btt posted:Two games that I don't care about at all and are just noise on any store to me. Movies by Kevin Smith and Quentin Tarantino maybe don’t matter to me but they still broke through the “art house” niche to be featured in the kind of multiplexes that show Star Wars in the room next door. Saying the independent projects that get the most interest from their audience like most are also the most likely to succeed in front of a wider audience isn’t new theory here. I don’t go to AMC 15 expecting to see student art projects.
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Aug 23, 2019 10:06
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Craptacular! posted:Movies by Kevin Smith and Quentin Tarantino maybe don’t matter to me but they still broke through the “art house” niche to be featured in the kind of multiplexes that show Star Wars in the room next door. and yet you can still buy student art project level stuff on amazon
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Aug 23, 2019 10:16
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Andrast posted:Even if Steam was more discerning on what games they let through the storefront would still be useless for finding new games. But that's how it's always been, Video Game stores used to be absolutely full of random crap games, hell, if you look in the used games bins you'd get a remarkable picture of just how bad it was. It's just moved to digital storefronts, that's it. In the end, it isn't the storefronts job to sell your game, it's YOUR job as the developer and/or publisher to sell the game, Steam is a digital distribution platform with a whole bunch of other consumer services bolted onto it. Steam is actually a pretty good standard, that offer excellent services for most developers, hell, Paradox have stated publicly that their present success is pretty much entirely thanks to Steam being ever so useful.
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Aug 23, 2019 10:18
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Shovelware bins used to be a little less shovelly than Steam is these days. Like, I don't think there was a glut of ten-cents-a-dozen RPGmaker games flooding every store.
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Aug 23, 2019 10:34
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RagnarokZ posted:But that's how it's always been, Video Game stores used to be absolutely full of random crap games, hell, if you look in the used games bins you'd get a remarkable picture of just how bad it was. I remember how the PC games section at stores became filled with more and more Bejeweled knock-offs, casino crap and Nancy Drew games.
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Aug 23, 2019 10:35
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Cardiovorax posted:Shovelware bins used to be a little less shovelly than Steam is these days. Like, I don't think there was a glut of ten-cents-a-dozen RPGmaker games flooding every store.
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Aug 23, 2019 10:46
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The 7th Guest posted:You've definitely never looked at a PC CD section of a Staples in the 2000s For reals, though, I don't think it's unfair to say that the simple costs of publishing stuff on proper CDs and packaging it in those olden-style jewel cases probably made the entry barrier for trash games at least a little bit higher. God knows it still wasn't high enough.
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Aug 23, 2019 10:49
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There was NO quality control back then. You missed out on an era of "10,000 GAMES ON 1 CD!" discs, one of which had a virus that killed my childhood computer, because, again, no quality control. These discs would mostly have shareware on them, but also, several just flat out pirated games, because no one looked, checked, or cared. An era where random level makers would sell their DOOM level packs on CD with copyrighted/trademarked DOOM imagery/logos and iD just didn't have the resources to go after all of them (although most of them didn't have DOOM itself on the disc, so it might not have been worth it to them). CDs were so cheap to manufacture that AOL became largely known not for their actual service but for the millions of AOL discs that they sent out to just about every American citizen. That and the Columbia CD subscription were like the two big CD-ROM jokes of the 90s. there was definitely a 'dot com bubble'-type era for CDs where everyone thought "we can just put whatever poo poo we want on a CD and people will buy it". so if you went to any retail store in the 2000s, they would be CLUTTERED with garbage PC software, and the games would be.. like, not even bejeweled but a bad knockoff of bejeweled. 10-in-1 solitaire pack. 3d maze o rama. 101 gamez 4 kidz e: vvvvvv I'm just glad we no longer have to type in CD keys inside of games to get them to load, or look through a manual to find the 5th word on the 8th paragraph of the 12th page The 7th Guest fucked around with this message at 11:05 on Aug 23, 2019 |
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Aug 23, 2019 10:55
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Alright, you've convinced me. I clearly underestimated the trashiness of the late nineties shovelware market.
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Aug 23, 2019 11:01
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Valve isn't publishing the games, they're distributing them and expecting them to do all the pre-launch poo poo that publishers generally do is silly. It's not on Steam to market a game beyond making it clear that it's available and when it's on sale. If a game doesn't stand out from the shovelware crap on Steam, it still wouldn't stand out if all the other shovelware was removed.
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Aug 23, 2019 11:03
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How many people actually browse Steam looking for something to buy vs reading about a game that sounds good on the forums, game sites, youtube whatever and typing it into the search bar? Is it just a very vocal minority that goes on about 'discoverability' and 'shovelware' on Steam while the rest of us just quietly get on with it? I honestly wouldn't know Steam was littered with anime porn visual novels and RPG Maker stuff if it wasn't brought up here all the time, 'cos I sure as hell don't see any of it. I mean, I don't think I've missed a single game because it was buried on Steam. The good stuff always rises to the top. Junkenstein fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Aug 23, 2019 |
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Aug 23, 2019 11:17
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Actually, yes, I do that. I regularly go through the specials and such just to see what is new and/or cheap right now, because I do not care for video game sites and youtube is even worse. I dearly appreciated the recent update to the Steam store that let me just plain filter out all results tagged as Visual Novel and other tripe like that. I certainly wouldn't mind if there was a little less garbage for me to wade through, not for the benefit of the people who make better games but because it annoys me personally.
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Aug 23, 2019 11:22
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I do, and I really don't care about the so called "shovelware" people are whining about. Sometimes you find a jewel in the rough there. Hell, I even browse through EA games every now and then to see what's coming up
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Aug 23, 2019 11:25
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Junkenstein posted:How many people actually browse Steam looking for something to buy vs reading about a game that sounds good on the forums, game sites, youtube whatever and typing it into the search bar? A lot of the complaints are from indie developers pining for the days when simply being on Steam was almost guaranteed profitability. Weirdly, some of the very vocal voices are developing games that probably wouldnt pass the "quality bar" theyre demanding. Some just want a paywall to keep out pleb developers. Actual customers seem to complain more about the embarassment of using a storefront that often has sexualized content prominently featured if you dont make an effort to opt-out. But sure there is a group of gamers complaining about shovelware, early access, etc. But I think a lot that is just generic toxicity, because those categories are not featured unless you specificially drill down to them. It is a mixed choir of voices demanding completely at-odds changes, but using very similar language.
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Aug 23, 2019 11:27
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I used to browse Steam and no longer do that because it's a lot more work to sift through. Though honestly it might be too much for me to sift through even if the shovelware was gone.
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Aug 23, 2019 11:29
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I mean, I get that it's really not even a concern to people who don't use the feature at all, but it's a bit rude to dismiss people who wish the Steam store was better-sorted as "toxic." It really is a bit of a mess. I don't want them to stop carrying any games, but I do wish it was easier to filter and collate stuff based on what you actually want to see. Currently you can easily search for tags, but not easily exclude them. That is one thing I would find a great improvement on usability, for example.
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Aug 23, 2019 11:34
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Cardiovorax posted:I mean, I get that it's really not even a concern to people who don't use the feature at all, but it's a bit rude to dismiss people who wish the Steam store was better-sorted as "toxic." It really is a bit of a mess. I don't want them to stop carrying any games, but I do wish it was easier to filter and collate stuff based on what you actually want to see. Currently you can easily search for tags, but not easily exclude them. That is one thing I would find a great improvement on usability, for example. Oh, yes, the search, sorting, etc. is absolutely in need of improvement and the store is a mess. But that is due to actual products and poor UI - much less so about shovelware. I made my point poorly. Complaining about the actual UI and store experience is absolutely not toxic. Complaining that shovelware and "exotic" games are the cause is, in my experience, mostly toxic and come from people with an agenda or peddling outrage. Speaking of tags they really need some work. So many are allowed such wide applicability that they are essentially useless.
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Aug 23, 2019 11:52
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A very Valve-seeming solution I'd like to see them try is to allow 3rd parties to set up storefronts and get a cut of the games sold through them. Just turn the current store into the Valve storefront and let users choose different stores to switch between or set as default. Let the storefronts make whatever layouts or search functions or tags or whatever they like and curate as much or as little as they like. That way users can shop the kind of storefront they want and Valve can just implement the system and sit on their rear end while other people do the work for them. Seems like exactly the sort of thing they would do so I'm slightly surprised they haven't.
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Aug 23, 2019 12:01
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Junkenstein posted:How many people actually browse Steam looking for something to buy vs reading about a game that sounds good on the forums, game sites, youtube whatever and typing it into the search bar? My experience with the Store browsing is that I installed Linux on my machine and wanted to see games that had native support (or at least a fully featured wrapper), and after putting that filter on I had hundreds of choose your own adventure games that all displayed different text over the same window. I get tag sorting exists but it’s unfortunate I risk losing Hatoful Boyfriend or something trying to lose carbon copy interactive fiction apps.
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Aug 23, 2019 12:06
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I've excluded nudity, anime and visual novel and still weird poo poo crops up in my steam store.
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Aug 23, 2019 13:50
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Glenn Quebec posted:I've excluded nudity, anime and visual novel and still weird poo poo crops up in my steam store.
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Aug 23, 2019 14:07
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There is also Steam problem that Games seemingly arbitrarily tag the top 10 tags, or they're so broad as to be meaningless... and having to narrow things down means you miss games you might be interested in. Click Strategy / popular / best selling and PUBG and Siege are in the top 10. While both games may have elements of Strategy, they are not Strategy Games.
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Aug 23, 2019 15:45
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Infidelicious posted:There is also Steam problem that Games seemingly arbitrarily tag the top 10 tags, or they're so broad as to be meaningless... and having to narrow things down means you miss games you might be interested in. Unless your definition of strategy is so narrow that it only includes RTSes, I'd say Siege could fit that tag. I agree with you on PUBG though
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Aug 23, 2019 15:53
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You make strategy in real time in Siege therefor it could be an RTS too.
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Aug 23, 2019 15:55
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Hmmm, with those tags excluded let's click RPG on Steam. Hopefully no ani---  
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Aug 23, 2019 15:56
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Broken Cog posted:Unless your definition of strategy is so narrow that it only includes RTSes, I'd say Siege could fit that tag. I agree with you on PUBG though
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Aug 23, 2019 16:00
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Cardiovorax posted:Could, but in a 'well, technically' sense that's so broad it's not useful anymore. I don't think most people mean Rainbow Six when they search the game store for strategy games. It's true though. Anyway, I checked the tags for fun, and I'd say "Strategy" is not as egregious as classifying it as "Psychological Horror" Also, doesn't users set these tags? Edit: I'd say that for anyone looking for an FPS with strategy elements, Siege is definitely up there
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Aug 23, 2019 16:06
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It's just a Touhou game you big baby. *scrolls down*
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Aug 23, 2019 16:07
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that tity look uncofmortable
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Aug 23, 2019 16:08
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There are user-set tags, but I think there are also developer-/publisher-set tags. Those usually appear in front of the rest and are what the game is tagged on release.Broken Cog posted:Edit: I'd say that for anyone looking for an FPS with strategy elements, Siege is definitely up there
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Aug 23, 2019 16:09
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You play a role in Siege, therefore it is a role playing game.
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Aug 23, 2019 16:14
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I'm going to exclude every tag in steam when I get home and I promise you I'll still find "Touhou Mohingion Uwu!?! Potty the tactical RPG." I'm sick of it.
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Aug 23, 2019 16:20
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Should have an option to excluded games made in RPG Maker or whatever that abomination of an engine is called.
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Aug 23, 2019 16:21
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just don't browse steam
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Aug 23, 2019 16:23
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Glenn Quebec posted:I'm going to exclude every tag in steam when I get home and I promise you I'll still find "Touhou Mohingion Uwu!?! Potty the tactical RPG." I'm sick of it. i genuinely cannot tell whether or not this is a real game name on steam and i refuse to put it into my google search history to find out
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Aug 23, 2019 16:23
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Complaining about Steam's lack of curation is like screaming into the wind. There are plenty of games who any average person would say qualify as a game that doesn't have any reason not to be sold that are only available on Steam. A lot of that is just because Steam is the giant in the room and other stores are way more restrictive than reasonable (although I still wish I could find out what GoG rejects versus how many just don't even try), but until someone can provide a store with a curation process that isn't it's own gatekeeping problem the complaints are just going to be purely whining. It might not be so bad if you had stores which strictly stated they were going for "X", but GoG was the only specialized store I'm aware of and they abandoned that focus years ago.
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Aug 23, 2019 16:35
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