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Budzilla posted:I have the Aorus Pro Wifi. The software is a little bloated for my liking but it's been pretty stable. I've been playing games and there seems to be some instabilty with older game titles but I put that down to Radeon divers and possibly BIOS. The only reason why I got this mobo was it was on special near me and it was priced near the lower tiered Aorus Elite. It made it preferable to get that then buy a wifi card too. Hmm, good to know, thanks!. Will keep that in mind when the labor day sales start and I start ordering parts. I'm not sure what to anticipate in terms of what items will go on sale.
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Aug 25, 2019 13:45
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The B85 mobo on my friend's 4790K has gone flaky and he will be upgrading to a 3600 + MSI B450M Mortar. I haven't been following the AMD mobo scene lately but It's weird to see the MSI Mortar and Tomahawk are the only B450 boards with good VRMs.
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Aug 25, 2019 14:33
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The OEM's 'cost optimized' the B450 mobos thoroughly. X470 pretty much is the de facto minimum for significantly better or good VRM's. X470 is now becoming depreciated in favor of X570 (which is a pretty decent step in build quality and VRM over X470 but prices also tend to be much higher so its not practical for everyone to go that route) for now though hopefully with the B550 chipsets the mobo vendors improve the VRM's there some too.
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Aug 25, 2019 16:25
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Plenty of B450 mainboards have VRMs that are perfectly up to the task of powering the Ryzen 2000 and 3000 CPUs up to 8 cores, are we comparing Buildzoid "not worth it unless it has 20 phases and can manually OC a 16 core CPU to 5 GHz" videos again?
orcane fucked around with this message at 17:06 on Aug 25, 2019 |
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Aug 25, 2019 17:03
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Stickman posted:Try using the Ryzen RAM calculator and setting your timings manually. It'll also probably have the bonus effect of giving you a better setting for tRFC (the number of cycles spend refreshing memory rows), which can be a pretty significant performance improvement. Manually updated to Windows 1903, and found that my mobo (MSI x570-a PRO) had an outdated BIOS out of the box, it came with an early June BIOS, so flashed that the latest official release (from early July, still before Zen 2 dropped) and today I tried out XMP again, seems to be stable now (RAM's running at 3600MHz). One weird thing though, looking in task manager, it's no longer listing the speed or the number of sticks. The right hand column of the info only says 'hardware reserved: 0.0 petabytes'. Anyone ever seen that? What gives?
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Aug 25, 2019 17:24
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The Rat posted:Hmm, good to know, thanks!. Will keep that in mind when the labor day sales start and I start ordering parts. I'm not sure what to anticipate in terms of what items will go on sale. I think you'll be okay with whatever board you end up with. Like other have said, almost every B450 board would handle the new 8 core parts too. B-Mac fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Aug 25, 2019 |
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Aug 25, 2019 17:25
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orcane posted:Plenty of B450 mainboards have VRMs that are perfectly up to the task of powering the Ryzen 2000 and 3000 CPUs up to 8 cores, are we comparing Buildzoid "not worth it unless it has 20 phases and can manually OC a 16 core CPU to 5 GHz" videos again? Up to 12 cores, for many of them. Almost every B450 board is fine for 3rd-gen 8-core boards (though the 2700X is a different matter). "Good enough for a 3900X" is primarily MSi boards, but here's the list, based on this excellent analysis Fine for 3900X or 2700X: ATX - MSi B450-A Pro, MSi B450 Tomahawk, MSi B450 Gaming Plus, MSi B450 Pro Carbon AC mATX - MSi B450M Gaming Plus, MSi B450M Bazooka Plus, MSi Mortar [Titanium] ITX - Asus RoG STRIX B450-I Gaming MSi B450I Gaming Plus AC Fine for 3700X/3800X or 2700 (non-X): ASRock: Everything except the B450M HDV R4.0 Asus: Everything except the Prime B450M-A and -K Gigabyte: Everything MSi: Everything except most of the B450M Bazooka, Pro-M2, and Pro-VDH mATX lines (the Bazooka Plus and Pro-VDH Plus are okay) Stickman fucked around with this message at 17:40 on Aug 25, 2019 |
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Aug 25, 2019 17:37
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Anyone know if its possible to use the Ryzen RAM calculator for a Linux system with no Windows installed? I have Windows on another non-Ryzen computer, so I could run it without resorting to WINE. From watching tutorial of how it works, it doesn't appear to require being on the same system with the RAM unless you use the auto-read function or whatever it was called. And I guess importing data from Typhoon Burner is also out of the question, but besides those two things, I should be able to manually enter the info? On Linux, I know command "dmidecode -t 17" reports some info on the RAM modules, but not a ton of detail, (not sure about the exact die type for ex): code:e: Also somewhat concerning is that the dmidecode info seems to be wrong about the voltage, which is 1.35V according to BIOS with DOCP enabled. peepsalot fucked around with this message at 17:44 on Aug 25, 2019 |
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Aug 25, 2019 17:40
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Azuren posted:Manually updated to Windows 1903, and found that my mobo (MSI x570-a PRO) had an outdated BIOS out of the box, it came with an early June BIOS, so flashed that the latest official release (from early July, still before Zen 2 dropped) and today I tried out XMP again, seems to be stable now (RAM's running at 3600MHz). One weird thing though, looking in task manager, it's no longer listing the speed or the number of sticks. The right hand column of the info only says 'hardware reserved: 0.0 petabytes'. Anyone ever seen that? What gives? This seems to be a relatively common bug with 1903 and X570, but I haven't seen anyone post a fix. I'd check CPU-Z or HWINFO64 to make sure the RAM is running at the proper speed and just ignore it for now unless you start getting BSoDs.
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Aug 25, 2019 17:50
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orcane posted:Plenty of B450 mainboards have VRMs that are perfectly up to the task of powering the Ryzen 2000 and 3000 CPUs up to 8 cores, are we comparing Buildzoid "not worth it unless it has 20 phases and can manually OC a 16 core CPU to 5 GHz" videos again? Such an easy trap. I watched like a million hours of youtube and was all "but the VRM heat sinks" and then had to remind myself I'm putting an 80w cpu in and if the next generation draws a lot more power I'll just buy a new mobo then because I won't have a ton invested in this one. Azuren posted:Manually updated to Windows 1903, and found that my mobo (MSI x570-a PRO) had an outdated BIOS out of the box, it came with an early June BIOS, so flashed that the latest official release (from early July, still before Zen 2 dropped) and today I tried out XMP again, seems to be stable now (RAM's running at 3600MHz). One weird thing though, looking in task manager, it's no longer listing the speed or the number of sticks. The right hand column of the info only says 'hardware reserved: 0.0 petabytes'. Anyone ever seen that? What gives? I have the same 0.0 peterbytes. No speed either. 3600/Asus X470 Prime Pro, with in 3200mhz XMP RAM.
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Aug 25, 2019 17:55
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Boys who love boys
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monsterzero posted:Such an easy trap. I watched like a million hours of youtube and was all "but the VRM heat sinks" and then had to remind myself I'm putting an 80w cpu in and if the next generation draws a lot more power I'll just buy a new mobo then because I won't have a ton invested in this one. Yeah, unless you're putting in top-end power-hungry CPUs or trying to competitively overclock, most boards have "good enough" VRM and it's pretty much just a matter of extra features at that point (onboard audio/wifi, usb ports, m.2 slots, etc).
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Aug 25, 2019 18:03
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I haven't heard such fussing over VRMs in 20 years of building computers as has happened in the last few years.
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Aug 25, 2019 18:10
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Tbf, comprehensive reviewing of motherboards is pretty new and it blows my mind how many options there are now. Not that my selection process isn’t roughly the same I was using two decades ago: pick a chipset, determine which manufacturer burned me last, but their midrange offering. Partially because the things I care about most can’t be addressed in a timely review, for example long term reliability and driver/BIOS quality.
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Aug 25, 2019 18:31
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Stickman posted:This seems to be a relatively common bug with 1903 and X570, but I haven't seen anyone post a fix. I'd check CPU-Z or HWINFO64 to make sure the RAM is running at the proper speed and just ignore it for now unless you start getting BSoDs. Ryzen Master shows the memory clock at 1800 and fabric clock at 1800 so that should be correct for 3600, right? Think everything's finally solid! Feels good man. Been loving with this build for four days now 
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Aug 25, 2019 19:02
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Can you fidget with timings in any particular order? My "safe" timings don't work for whatever reason so I thought I could make the most of it and just enable them one by one and do a restart to see if it works.
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Aug 25, 2019 19:46
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Good ol' Igor, formerly of TomsHW Germany but independent since it shut down, took a closer look at some entry level X570 boards among the confusion about Zen2 Bioses and clocks. The article is here, but google translate is probably gonna struggle with his style: https://www.igorslab.media/drei-x57...he-performance/ Page 1 is numbers are for stock, BIOS default settings; page 2 is PBO with a 95W PPT limit set. I'll try to summarize the findings Asus Prime X570-P 3600X got 4076MHz average with 108W on the EPS-12V (Bios default), of which a calculated 92W actually reached the CPU cores 4031MHz pulling 98W (PBO/95W limit). Cores got 83W ++ equipped with DrMOS and SiC639 Power Stages, ~95% efficiency. Exemplary in this price segment - Sensors are very inaccurate. Don't trust anything sensor-reading software tells you about power consumption with this board -- Chipset fan airflow is blocked by typical bulky GPUs and the bloody thing gets loud Not a bad buy if you want the best VRM setup and can live/tinker with the chipset fan. MSI X570-A Pro 4061MHz with 119W (default), cores got 88W 3953MHz with 97W (PBO/95W limit), cores got 65W - poor efficiency compared to the Asus, about what you'd expect in this lowend segment + the only board of the bunch with reliable sensor readings + chipset cooler fan is well regulated, with zero fan mode if temps allow it Not a bad choice if you can live with the reduced efficiency ASRock X570 Pro 4 4073MHz with 122W (default), 92W actually reached cores 4073MHz with 122W (PBO/95W limit set), 92W reached CPU This board straight up ignores all user settings and goes full ham. It was disqualified, the Bios is buggy af and 'concerning' for the well-being of CPUs. Same poor efficiency as the MSI and the sensors were laughably off. sauer kraut fucked around with this message at 14:09 on Aug 26, 2019 |
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Aug 26, 2019 14:02
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sauer kraut posted:Good ol' Igor, formerly of TomsHW Germany but independent since it shut down, took a closer look at some entry level X570 boards among the confusion about Zen2 Bioses and clocks. Thanks for posting this. I was considering the MSI A-Pro but was fraught with indecision between all the low end x570. Though I'm holding off in general since it seems like there are a lot of bios and other issues that my computer illiterate self could not deal with if I had them happen to me.
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Aug 26, 2019 16:13
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Dead Goon posted:I haven't heard such fussing over VRMs in 20 years of building computers as has happened in the last few years. Overclocking nerds always cared. I think there are probably several reasons for why it wasn't a thing in mainstream PC builder consciousness for a long time but I rather suspect one of them might be that consumer CPU core counts suddenly started exploding the other year, and power draw following along of course. The Intel 4-cores pretty much thermal throttled on their terrible TIM before power started becoming a real issue too.
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Aug 26, 2019 19:09
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It seems GlobalFoundries thinks suing TSMC is more profitable than making 7nm chips. Is there anything in particular they want from this, or are they just emulating SCO and turning themselves into a patent troll?
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Aug 27, 2019 04:02
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ufarn posted:Can you fidget with timings in any particular order? My "safe" timings don't work for whatever reason so I thought I could make the most of it and just enable them one by one and do a restart to see if it works. That's the general method I've seen suggested. Set everything high/slow, and then start lowering one by one until things fail, then set it a bit above that. I made one attempt at safe settings, which didn't even post. I'm going to try lowering values one by one to just above what the calculator recommends. Going from CL17 to CL14 may have been too much of a jump for this 3600MT g.skill ram.
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Aug 27, 2019 15:13
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Golluk posted:That's the general method I've seen suggested. Set everything high/slow, and then start lowering one by one until things fail, then set it a bit above that. I made one attempt at safe settings, which didn't even post. I'm going to try lowering values one by one to just above what the calculator recommends. Going from CL17 to CL14 may have been too much of a jump for this 3600MT g.skill ram.
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Aug 27, 2019 19:07
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B-Mac posted:I think you'll be okay with whatever board you end up with. Like other have said, almost every B450 board would handle the new 8 core parts too. I ordered the X570 Steel Legend Wifi today and I think I hosed up. My build list includes a Samsung 970 1tb drive, which I already have in hand. I didn't think much of it because PC Part Picker didn't give me any compatibility issues, and I always just thought hard drives in general were plug and play. Then today as I was looking up which M2 slot it should go in as the boot drive, I stumbled across this, saying that the 1tb 970 isn't compatible and won't be recognized in the X570 Steel Legend. Sure enough I went to ASRock's site for the Steel Legend and they have a list of M2 hard drives it's compatible with. The 970 1tb isn't on there, and it doesn't look like there are any 1tb M2s on there. The BIOS updates don't appear to mention any hard drive compatibility updates either. FUUUUCK.  The motherboard is currently en route from Newegg, and has a replacement only return policy. So no sending it back to them. I am at least glad that I found this out before putting the whole thing together and not having it boot. That would have been much more frustrating. Right now the options I can see are: 1. Order another motherboard (probably the aformentioned X570 Aorus Pro Wifi) and sell the NIB Steel Legend on SA Mart here or something like that. 2. Sell the hard drive and replace it with a smaller, lesser drive that does fit the Steel Legend's compatibility list. (It is also still NIB.) Both of those options kinda suck, but I'm leaning more towards option one. What say you, goons? Is there anything I'm missing here? The Rat fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Aug 28, 2019 |
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Aug 28, 2019 00:40
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I think you're stressing out over nothing. Your drive will work with your new motherboard. The reddit post is most likely a broken hardware issue, not a compatibility one. ASrock probably doesn't have the 1tb versions of the Samsung 970s listed in their QVL because they're expensive and they have the exact same controller as the lower capacity drives. The QVL is a listing of components that they have tested and verified works, not "these are the only components that work on our board". Actuarial Fables fucked around with this message at 01:06 on Aug 28, 2019 |
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Aug 28, 2019 01:02
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Yeah, none of ASRock's B450 boards have >256 970 Evos listed as QVL and I've seen a lot people pair those without issue. It's most like a problem with their specific motherboard or drive.
Stickman fucked around with this message at 03:49 on Aug 28, 2019 |
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Aug 28, 2019 01:14
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I have a MSI x570 board and the nvme controller and the RTX 2070 USB3 controller keep spitting WHEA-Logger "a corrected hardware error has occurred" message at me every few hours, should I give a poo poo?
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Aug 28, 2019 01:31
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In all probability the vendor just didn't bother to validate any drives bigger than 256GB.
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Aug 28, 2019 03:21
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ufarn posted:Oh hey what's up G.Skill RAM bud. I'll have to dive into the GN articles about which things to fidget with first then. I tried dropping the first 8 or so settings the calculator gives down halfway to the safe numbers, and all seems good so for. Should be more room to go though. I'm only at 51GB/s read and 79ns latency. It did recommend 1.45 volts for Dram, which seems a bit on the high side from what I've read. Unless I'm just confusing that with CPU voltage.
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Aug 28, 2019 04:07
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The Rat posted:Sure enough I went to ASRock's site for the Steel Legend and they have a list of M2 hard drives it's compatible with. Bruh. I also own an ASRock (A320) mobo that initially didn’t work with my Samsung M2. So first of all I’ll say a BIOS update eventually fixed it so just try updating BIOS and using it normally first. If it doesn’t work, you can buy M2 to SATA boards on eBay, AliExpress, etc and use it that way. You don’t get the minimalist satisfaction of so much storage being a little add-in board screwed into your motherboard, but you can still use the drive in most cases. They’re a couple bucks at most and beat changing components over this.
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Aug 28, 2019 05:15
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I never understood all this validation crap. You'd think that standardized hardware interfaces and protocols like PCIe and NVMe are supposed to make it unnecessary.
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Aug 28, 2019 05:34
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Are the Ryzen power plans included in their chipset driver installer meaningful? It absolutely seems like the kind of pointless bloatware a manufacturer would bung in with the important stuff, but my 3700x is the first AMD processor I've ever had so maybe things are different over here.
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Aug 28, 2019 08:44
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Lightningproof posted:Are the Ryzen power plans included in their chipset driver installer meaningful? It absolutely seems like the kind of pointless bloatware a manufacturer would bung in with the important stuff, but my 3700x is the first AMD processor I've ever had so maybe things are different over here. The new Ryzen3000 plans are supposed to enable the Windows scheduler to adjust CPU frequency a lot more rapidly and fine-grained than it normally can. What it actually does for performance, eh  Zen1 had a similar thing that would disable core parking when idle, it got rolled into one the recent large Win10 updates eventually.
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Aug 28, 2019 09:02
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Well it seems like all y'all say it should work, and I've been checking completed builds on PC part picker with that motherboard and many of them have M2 hard drives that aren't on the manufacturer support list. So I guess we'll see when all the parts come in. The manual still didn't answer my question though, what M2 slot should I set the boot drive in? Or does it even matter?
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Aug 28, 2019 17:18
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The Rat posted:Well it seems like all y'all say it should work, and I've been checking completed builds on PC part picker with that motherboard and many of them have M2 hard drives that aren't on the manufacturer support list. So I guess we'll see when all the parts come in. They should be just like a SATA port, it shouldn't matter *some boards disable SATA ports when you use certain M.2 slots if you plan on using only 1 M.2 drive and also every single SATA port you may need to actually care. If you have a choice, the one furthest from a heat source such as your graphics card if the best spot, don't cook your drive SSDs slow down when they get too hot, and I don't see why nvme would be different.
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Aug 28, 2019 17:26
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The Rat posted:Well it seems like all y'all say it should work, and I've been checking completed builds on PC part picker with that motherboard and many of them have M2 hard drives that aren't on the manufacturer support list. So I guess we'll see when all the parts come in. On the AM4 platform one of the M.2 slots should be directly connected to the CPU (usually the first slot) so you'll want to use that one. It shouldn't make a speed difference but it does mean your SSD won't be sharing PCIe bandwidth with all the other peripherals in your system.
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Aug 28, 2019 17:30
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Hmm, so the M2.1 slot looks like it's basically right under the graphics card, while the M2.2 slot is a lot lower down and further away from it. So from a heat perspective the 2 slot makes more sense, but if the 1 slot is directly connected to the CPU then that could be advantageous, right? But then again if it gets too hot, that's no good either. The manual doesn't say anything about one slot or the other being direct, but I could be missing something.
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Aug 28, 2019 19:26
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The Rat posted:Hmm, so the M2.1 slot looks like it's basically right under the graphics card, while the M2.2 slot is a lot lower down and further away from it. So from a heat perspective the 2 slot makes more sense, but if the 1 slot is directly connected to the CPU then that could be advantageous, right? But then again if it gets too hot, that's no good either. It'll say "if you use this slot, you lose the use of SATA ports X...Z and PCIe slot Y" for the indirectly connected one. Or well it does on my X470
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Aug 28, 2019 19:38
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Yeah, I've seen that kind of verbiage before in my current motherboard manual, but this one is lacking it entirely. I suppose the huge heat sink size means that placement shouldn't matter too much, right?
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Aug 28, 2019 19:49
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Unless you’re hammering the poo poo outta that SSD or your case has terrible airflow I don’t think temps should be an issue. My Inland Premium NVMe boot drive just sits at 29C over ambient (26C, garbage AC) and goes up to 39C if I run CrystalDiskMark while stressing the GPU and CPU simultaneously.
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Aug 28, 2019 20:02
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If you bought a FX-8120, FX-8150, FX-8320, FX-8350, FX-8370, FX-9370, or FX-9590 from AMD.com or at a retailer in California, you may be able to get some money from a false advertising class action settlement regarding Bulldozer having 8 "cores". AMD has to put the money aside, so it doesnt impact AMD's bottom line whether you file or not. https://www.anandtech.com/show/14804/amd-settlement
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Aug 28, 2019 21:37
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Cygni posted:If you bought a FX-8120, FX-8150, FX-8320, FX-8350, FX-8370, FX-9370, or FX-9590 from AMD.com or at a retailer in California, you may be able to get some money from a false advertising class action settlement regarding Bulldozer having 8 "cores". I can see what they were trying to do with Bulldozer, but it failed so hard it seemed to have almost wrecked the entire CPU division. Their plan was "SMT with extra resources", but it just bit them in the rear end when it turned out to be a pain to manage a weird chip like that. Advertising it has having 8 full cores was also.. well, doesn't matter what my opinion is, the lawsuit is right there
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