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had a little bit of green stuff get above the pump line so yeah, more saltvines  also a little more cooling It's getting supplemented with extra O2 from a couple diffusers though since I have a lot of algae this time, could throw in a third without a lot of trouble. Three wheezeworts and about 6 saltvines placed well (better than this) per rust deoxidizer I have enough water now I could start cutting over to electrolyzers but I don't feel like there's a big need for that, I know this isn't the usual way people play this but I just like how it looks and works
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Aug 25, 2019 13:33
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Flesh Forge posted:had a little bit of green stuff get above the pump line so yeah, more saltvines You should consider swapping off mealwood to mushrooms/bristle/lettuce as your next priority. Mealwood has no morale boost and requires delivery of 10kg of dirt every cycle. Fried mushrooms are +1, lettuce is +1, and together they are +12 morale, and they'll require far less farm plots to hit the 1000 kcal mark. It's 5 mealwood per dupe to sustain 1000 kcal a day, vs ~1 lettuce and ~1.66 mushrooms per day for mushroom wraps. Additionally you can have sweepers deliver the dirt/bleach stone/slime to and cut down on dupe interaction time massively. Large hand fed farms are as time consuming for dupes as big ranches. This will help: https://oni-assistant.com/tools/foodcalculator' For an example: as shown on the last page this farm is feeding 24 dupes with only ~1.5 dupes worth of excess production, and the only interaction required from dupes is harvesting every 7.5/12 cycles per plant. I only give the thimble water 25% of the the day, delaying their growth out a few extra cycles, thereby conserving water and not having to harvest so much. Plants that don't get water just pause their growth, they don't ever lose that percentage unless uprooted. Same with eggs in an incubator.   Flesh Forge posted:trying to figure out a self regulating cooling loop and in the process of expanding it a bit I discovered, somehow, SOMEHOW, this all circulates As for this, that top loop will circulate yes but your bridge has pipe that connects to both ends, which means it can see both input/output all the time. It will circulate but you'll get that janky, delayed movement while the game sends packets both directions instead of a fluid circle. The second one is good, my only note is given you have that 2 tile mesh gap in the farm tiles that you can move the temperature sensor + shutoff to a location like this  and that way the exact packet the temperature sensor is seeing is acted upon by the shutoff. The way you have it currently there is a good chance you'll never actually move the hot packets out since they'll be 5 tiles ahead of the sensor and will run the loop again, meaning the hot packets will just continuously circulate and your new cold packets are possibly getting dumped out right after getting added. You'll want to keep the bridge method of adding liquid you have though, tying the feed directly into the output port of the loop bridge like in my screenshot means the external line has priority flow. I do that in areas where I'm pumping out of a tank or something on a clock sensor, I want it to get on the line in the window I'm telling it to. Mazz fucked around with this message at 14:01 on Aug 25, 2019 |
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Aug 25, 2019 13:44
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Mazz posted:You should consider swapping off mealwood to mushrooms/bristle/lettuce as your next priority. Mealwood has no morale boost and requires delivery of 10kg of dirt every cycle. Fried mushrooms are +1, lettuce is +1, and together they are +12 morale, and they'll require far less farm plots to hit the 1000 kcal mark. It's 5 mealwood per dupe to sustain 1000 kcal a day, vs ~1 lettuce and ~1.66 mushrooms per day for mushroom wraps. Additionally you can have sweepers deliver the dirt/bleach stone/slime to and cut down on dupe interaction time massively. Large hand fed farms are as time consuming for dupes as big ranches. It's Arboria so I have few choices for farming, I got one bristle berry seed from the printer and that has slooooooooooowly given me two more, but it's about to start taking off now. The other choices on this map are waterweed and the really exotic stuff, nosh beans and sleet wheat - I have slime because I took that world trait but you don't actually get mushrooms (or gold amalgam for that matter), just slime and slimelung germs. I actually want to try nosh beans/tofu/spicy tofu because I'm a lot more comfortable with gas separation and that poo poo and I can get pips to plant gobs of free range peppernut and use all the map ethanol to irrigate the beans. There seems to be one guaranteed hatch when you start on Arboria and I could be trying to ranch them I guess Mazz posted:As for this, that top loop will circulate yes but your bridge has pipe that connects to both ends, which means it can see both input/output all the time. It will circulate but you'll get that janky, delayed movement while the game sends packets both directions instead of a fluid circle. The first one was just a big mistake, but the final config is only a coolant dumper anyway, it's OK if it's inefficient, it runs like once in 20 or so cycles. Thanks for the info though! Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 14:10 on Aug 25, 2019 |
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Aug 25, 2019 14:07
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Flesh Forge posted:It's Arboria so I have few choices for farming, I got one bristle berry seed from the printer and that has slooooooooooowly given me two more, but it's about to start taking off now. The other choices on this map are waterweed and the really exotic stuff, nosh beans and sleet wheat - I have slime because I took that world trait but you don't actually get mushrooms (or gold amalgam for that matter), just slime and slimelung germs. I actually want to try nosh beans/tofu/spicy tofu because I'm a lot more comfortable with gas separation and that poo poo and I can get pips to plant gobs of free range peppernut and use all the map ethanol to irrigate the beans. If you have the salt water for it, waterweed uses like 500g of bleach stone a day so a few tons will last a long time, and lettuce is as good as uncooked berries or mushrooms (cooked versions are only +1 but also improve the kcal ratio). At 12 dupes you need 30 lettuce plants, which is 15kg of bleach stone and 150kg of salt water per cycle total. 1t of available bleach stone will last you 66 cycles. This is vs 60 mealwood and 600kg of dirt per cycle. That's assuming you aren't making liceloaf, which reduces the number of mealwood to 40 but adds in a nice 400kg of water per cycle, not to mention the dupe cook time for those. Make sure you have a farmer with the full skill tree, the farming skill actually increases the chance of getting seeds per harvest, so if you're after that you actually do want a dedicated farmer. Perferably someone who was interested in farming so he has points to start with and gets the extra morale for the skills. On a general note, the microbe musher is really just a trap if used to make liceloaf or the dirt food, it will murder your available water like advanced research does but for no real benefit. It should be avoided unless you absolutely need the dirt based food. Mazz fucked around with this message at 15:44 on Aug 25, 2019 |
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Aug 25, 2019 14:27
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I have basically all the geysers on this map so yeah, I can try waterweed pretty easily along with the other stuff
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Aug 25, 2019 14:33
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The other great thing about lettuce is that waterweed grows at up to like 70C, so you barely need to temperature manage it.
Mazz fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Aug 25, 2019 |
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Aug 25, 2019 15:45
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Flesh Forge posted:had a little bit of green stuff get above the pump line so yeah, more saltvines Why no art/decorations in your barracks?
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Aug 25, 2019 18:16
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can someone post a good "initial start" guide? I've played a bit and after a while it all gets rather messy quick. I think I get the core concept alright but it's not so clear on what to prioritize after a few cycles. Like I used this guide for an overview, which states to build a "cellar" early on for stuff like transformers. It makes sense to me, but f.e. how far down should that cellar be? Does it matter if there is no oxygen for that time until I give it proper vents or should I defo build a oxygen producer down there? I haven't come far but I don't necessarily want to start over only because I hosed up a one point. The game feels like it can be pretty soft on that end but I still like to have a good backup-readme for the first colony.
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Aug 25, 2019 18:26
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haldolium posted:can someone post a good "initial start" guide? Transformers only generate 1/1.5 kdtu, so they don't generate a ton of heat, but it's a good idea to place them a little ways away anyway, if only to delay the gradual heating of the base, especially if you have any temperature sensitive plants. They don't need any maintenance, so you can stuff them behind a granite wall if the temperatures aren't too high. Ideally there's a nearby ice biome, but that's not always the case. Remember heat (and gases, which can absorb heat) rise, so putting machinery to the sides and above is probably better. For building/mining projects in the early game, I'll usually plop down a couple algae terrariums in an enclosed room so the dupes can work with minimal interruption. They can always be dismantled afterwards. This guide helped me a fair bit: https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/08/13/oxygen-not-included-guide-how-to-ace-your-first-30-cycles-in-oni/ Fruits of the sea fucked around with this message at 20:09 on Aug 25, 2019 |
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Aug 25, 2019 20:01
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Heat does not rise.
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Aug 25, 2019 20:14
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I usually build a big vertical shaft with insulation on the sides and then run the main cable bus, fire pole, and ladder up/down that, with mesh landings for transformers where needed. Also works nicely as an air riser and a liquid sump. 5 wide is a good start but I like to build a wider one on the other side of the base too, especially as you probably don't actually want your dupes spending much time in the cable run cos it's very ugly, so you can move over to a more presentable looking transit riser later on and keep the smaller one as a serviceway and insulation barrier from the industry. 
OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Aug 25, 2019 |
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Aug 25, 2019 20:16
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CainFortea posted:Heat does not rise.
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Aug 25, 2019 20:24
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Why no art/decorations in your barracks? tbh because I'm really bad at this game, that's really all it is
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Aug 25, 2019 20:28
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CainFortea posted:Heat does not rise. Huh. Does umm, hot O2 or CO2 rise? In the game, that is. 
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Aug 25, 2019 20:45
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Not that I know of, somewhat strangely. I assume it's to simplify calculations by not bothering to do them for blocks of homogenous gas while temperature rising would necessitate modelling it per tile all the time.
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Aug 25, 2019 20:51
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Hey so, if you irrigate a plant with hot water in an insulated pipe ... does the heat just go away? eg 
Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Aug 25, 2019 |
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Aug 25, 2019 20:58
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I believe it discharges into the hydroponic farm plot, which will then store the hot water and disperse the heat into the environment. Like so:  Admittedly hydroponic farms have a fairly limited conductivity and I would presume that the actual consumed fluid will be destroyed, but you're still going to heat up your farm over time. My farms get quite stable 16 or so degree water from the main tank though the ambient base environment is slightly warmer, the pipes serve as a small heat sink for the base. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 21:07 on Aug 25, 2019 |
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Aug 25, 2019 21:04
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yeah the fluid consumed is destroyed, but it'll sit in in the farm until it is, causing heat. if you put a valve in and throttle it to the exact amount your plants use it'll be better i guess, but also extremely fiddly because every time a harvest happens your setup needs to be fixed since non-growing plants don't eat up water i think?
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Aug 25, 2019 21:20
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OwlFancier posted:Not that I know of, somewhat strangely. I assume it's to simplify calculations by not bothering to do them for blocks of homogenous gas while temperature rising would necessitate modelling it per tile all the time. Makes sense. Modelling convection would probably lead to creating an unintentional weather system, which could be kind of cool.
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Aug 25, 2019 21:43
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OwlFancier posted:I believe it discharges into the hydroponic farm plot, which will then store the hot water and disperse the heat into the environment. 7 cycles later and that specific plot is still 20.2, I'll keep an eye on it I guess
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Aug 25, 2019 21:45
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Yeah, I assume that they model gases as basically just a different type of fluid for the same reason - the substantially slower movement really cuts down on the amount of calculations that have to be performed per tick. The average square of gas doesn't move any more often than once per second. Simulating all that air-flow in real-time would not be fun for my system.
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Aug 25, 2019 21:47
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Gas is a fluid, as it exhibits flow, what it isn't is a liquid, which is a phase of matter 
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Aug 25, 2019 21:59
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As far as ONI is concerned, they certainly aren't. Kidding aside, my native language doesn't make that distinction, so I learned something new today, thanks.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:05
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Most people don't make it in English either so you're not really missing anything, it's just a silly little bit of knowledge.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:10
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Well, I do study chemistry, it would be really embarrassing if I ever have to write a paper in English and get something like that wrong. And yes, this does make playing ONI into a bit of a surreal experience. It simulates enough that everything is just that little bit off from how I keep thinking it should work, lol.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:18
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Yeah stuff like a room full of pure chlorine just being "eh, just hold your breath" takes a little getting used to
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Aug 25, 2019 22:42
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Flesh Forge posted:7 cycles later and that specific plot is still 20.2, I'll keep an eye on it I guess The insulated pipe still holds the liquid and contains it, but the tile also holds a small amount which is what transfers the heat. It takes a while but slowly the tile will heat up (or cool down) to the temperature of the water. I think the iron you made the tiles out of is also contributing to the slow heating. You can also run pipe past the plant above the tile and cool the plant even though the water in the farm tile is still hot, I do that for my oxyferns since I'm too lazy to cool the geyser water I'm feeding them.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:43
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Flesh Forge posted:tbh because I'm really bad at this game, that's really all it is i mean i just build 0% stress bases that never make it past coal/wood power and then restart them each session so gently caress if i know how to play this game I did accidentally kill half of my dupes by exposing them to space for the first time so I guess that's progress.
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Aug 25, 2019 22:55
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So anyone farming morbs from full toilets, the trick is to load a save. They seem to spawn right away on each new save, like the spawn clock is reset. I had like 2 spawn in a long session yesterday/today, but got like 8 more when playing with mods/jumping on and off later today. 
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Aug 25, 2019 23:06
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The game would be a lot more interesting if certain gasses hurt dupes just for being immersed in them without an atmo suit.
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Aug 26, 2019 01:33
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When I first started playing I thought diseases was what was going to kill me instantly, but it feels like even if you get Food poisoning and Slimelung all day long, it does not actually do much beyond annoy and irritate and then resolve on its own soon enough. I used to be deathly afraid of mining a single Slimelung infected Slime cell. But replicating and skilling up a dedicated doctor has felt like overkill every time I have done it. The game overall feels a lot less deadly than I first imagined or thought it would be, every single one of my colonists that have died has been due to severe carelessness on my part, or debatebly the colonists, rather than a deadly aspect of the environment, digging into chlorine gas did not instantly annihilate everyone within minutes, critters are peaceful, diseases are flulike, Oxygen and Food are easy to ensure a very long term or infinite supply of, Stress only happens if you are REALLY screwing around ignoring Morale and Morale modifiers when spending Skill points. If there was a "Colony is now perpetually self sustaining for 100 more cycles without further input" objective, I am pretty sure several of mine would qualify, atleast before I decided to pointlessly mess it up attempting to achieve the actual objectives.
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Aug 26, 2019 01:47
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If the game is too easy you need to try one of the harder asteroid types. Having to deal with heatstroke everywhere outside of the starting biome makes things a little harder. Speaking of which, I set up a steam turbine cooling loop that gets the water pool down to like 5 degrees. It took like two hours to set up and perfect, and I'm using it with a hydrogen loop to cool my base.  I then got three wheezeworts in a row from the duplicator, so I set those up on the hydrogen loop instead to see how it compared. They do a way better job. 
Arven fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Aug 26, 2019 |
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Aug 26, 2019 02:09
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The oasis one has temperatures that scald your dupes in seconds after they step onto the sand outside the starting biome. You have to build your way out using relatively colder materials.
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Aug 26, 2019 02:15
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OwlFancier posted:Yeah stuff like a room full of pure chlorine just being "eh, just hold your breath" takes a little getting used to The thread title made me think that you could World War I your dupes
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Aug 26, 2019 02:20
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Yeah your dupes can swim around in liquid CO2 and watch out they might get a sniffle!
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Aug 26, 2019 02:48
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Arven posted:I then got three wheezeworts in a row from the duplicator, so I set those up on the hydrogen loop instead to see how it compared. They do a way better job. Are you sure about that? I'm fairly certain piping your 5C water around your base will work much better than piping some wheeze'd hydrogen
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Aug 26, 2019 03:00
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So here's the thing about large cooling systems: the start of the network will be the only place to see significant temperature changes before whatever working fluid you're using reaches ambient temperature and ceases to "cool" the area for the rest. What it does eventually is average out that area's temperature overall; cooling only occurs if what you're pushing in is counteracting all the other heat sources in that area. If you want to see these changes, keep the working area small.
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Aug 26, 2019 03:15
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Even then it will take time for the cooling to propogate along the network, and it'll do so from the direction of the flow. A circulating radiator system can still be very helpful for averaging out the temperature of an area, but you will want to keep that area isolated from heat ingress where possible. Generally I find it best to concentrate your heat producers together and then bung all your cooling in that area too, and use things like a 20c regulated water supply to keep your habitable areas nice and temperate I feed my main water tank off a slush geyser that also runs a lot of the cooling, and there's a tepidizer in the tank to bring it up the last couple of degrees. The water needs to be heated up anyway so the tepidizer is just to stop it getting too cold if I'm not doing refining etc. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Aug 26, 2019 |
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Aug 26, 2019 03:18
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water has good heat capacity, and will cool very big areas, you just need to give it time since it also has an amazing conductivity so it'll only cool the first couple tiles at first.
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Aug 26, 2019 03:20
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Is there any temperature exchange between a gas reservoir and the surrounding environment? Assuming there is, if I fill one full of steam and the steam cools back to its liquid form, would it damage/destroy the reservoir?
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Aug 26, 2019 03:40
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