|
Timeless Appeal posted:I feel like people also forget the part where Killmonger is a CIA Agent who specialized in toppling societies and was using his skills in Wakanda. They also forget the parts where he literally destroys the method of other people rising to power, doesn't listen to the tribal representatives, and over empowers the police. He's a token white guy who's briefly useful at the end. It's not unlike how people say that Captain Marvel is bad because it shows that the USAF is super awesome and cool.
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 03:26
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 20:00 |
|
|
Sgt. Politeness posted:....was it though? I mean, yeah, regardless of any other considerations, that is literally the plot.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 06:43
|
|
|
Sgt. Politeness posted:....was it though? Only if you're an incredible pedant who is willing to ignore context and conflicting evidence from the movie. Then yes.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 07:56
|
|
|
SonicRulez posted:Only if you're an incredible pedant who is willing to ignore context and conflicting evidence from the movie. Yes the entire movie was constructed in such a way that it gave a legitimate reason for the CIA to help a deposed monarch regain his throne in exchange for mineral rights. I like the movie, and definitely wanted it to get Best Picture over The Green Book, but we should be able to acknowledge that sometimes poo poo we like has problems.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 08:14
|
|
|
Oh my god, the Scarlet Witch shadow on the wall's got the weird headband thingy, that's amazing.  Skwirl posted:Yes the entire movie was constructed in such a way that it gave a legitimate reason for the CIA to help a deposed monarch regain his throne in exchange for mineral rights.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 08:45
|
|
|
Yvonmukluk posted:
Wakanda had lied and said Gollum had stollen all their vibranium of like a couple tons worth when they actually had an entire mountain of it. Bilbo only starts to go full on pro T'Challa when he finds out there's a poo poo ton more vibranium than previously thought.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 09:09
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:Wakanda had lied and said Gollum had stollen all their vibranium of like a couple tons worth when they actually had an entire mountain of it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 09:48
|
|
|
Skwirl posted:
This sounds right. The next film that Tom is going to be in is (Checks notes) an indy film called Uncharted where he plays Nathan Drake.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 13:56
|
|
|
The Question IRL posted:an indy film called Uncharted where he plays Nathan Drake. Ha, I get it.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 14:47
|
|
|
I like how "one guy who was brought to wakanda while he was unconscious and is more or less conscripted into service" = "the CIA as an organization sanctioned an orchestration of and participation in a coup" when it needs to fit a narrative Also it was just announced the Tom Holland uncharted movie lost its director so he's not having a great week
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 15:12
|
|
|
site posted:I like how "one guy who was brought to wakanda while he was unconscious and is more or less conscripted into service" = "the CIA as an organization sanctioned an orchestration of and participation in a coup" when it needs to fit a narrative Obviously Sony (in conjunction with the CIA) caused the director to drop out so it will kill the project. That way Sony can use their contractual hold on Tom Holland to star in a Sony Spider-man film to make all the monies.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 15:22
|
|
|
diabolical
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 15:35
|
|
|
site posted:I like how "one guy who was brought to wakanda while he was unconscious and is more or less conscripted into service" = "the CIA as an organization sanctioned an orchestration of and participation in a coup" when it needs to fit a narrative This. It's not like T'Challa rode a tank with a big U.S. flag on it while Agent Ross played Yankee Doodle.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 16:40
|
|
|
The Question IRL posted:This sounds right. The next film that Tom is going to be in is (Checks notes) an indy film called Uncharted where he plays Nathan Drake. That film just lost its director.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 18:57
|
|
|
The loving bad guy used CIA tactics when doing his bad guy stuff. You really have to twist yourself into a pretzel to think the movie is pro-CIA or pro-colonialism.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 18:58
|
|
|
The bad guy was CIA. Ross even says "he's one of ours."
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 19:02
|
|
|
I think the thing that bothers me is that Black Panther is a kind of a really loving smart movie... Like beyond just the brilliant production design or the way the movie sort of tours through genres recasting black characters into gladiator films, sci/fi films, spy films, heist films, and fantasy films after starting from the usual gangsters in the hood beginning... there is a lot to unpack in what the movie is saying about privilege, colonialism, and intersectionality. The movie ends in this pretty bold way. Killmonger is broken because America both through ancestral trauma and how the CIA taught him to be a monster. He's right that there is something broken in how Wakanda interacts with the world, but he himself is too broken to actually rule Wakanda in a way that is not authoritarian in itself. The fact that he and the tribe he aligns himself are coded as the antagonists because they're dressed like cops is pretty loving bold. But people want to say things that sound vaguely smart "T'Challa worked with the CIA" or the ridiculous goal post shifting of "How progressive is a film with a KING" not actually think about the movie holistically.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 19:23
|
|
|
Sgt. Politeness posted:....was it though? No. The entire basis of this argument is that one of the secondary characters happens to works for the CIA. And he's treated with contempt, or at BEST like a clueless puppy, by the Wakandans.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 19:31
|
|
|
Timeless Appeal posted:But people want to say things that sound vaguely smart "T'Challa worked with the CIA" or the ridiculous goal post shifting of "How progressive is a film with a KING" not actually think about the movie holistically. Which s a step away from 'why does Black Panther matter so much to black people in the first place' which, well, yeah.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 19:33
|
|
|
I mean there are plenty of African perspective pieces who happily rip into Black Panther as an extension of the western imaginations vision of Africa, with the fixation on "tribes" and ancient magical customs and sweeping sunset hued vistas and noble warriors and ceremonial combat which you know is fundamentally true and inherent in the source material. Black Panther is gonna raise a few eyebrows from postcolonial minded commentators regardless tbh before any CIA agent pops up.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 19:34
|
|
|
I think the conclusion of the movie is the weakest, in that the answer they show is like so limp wristed. It's possible and likely that it's a first step but outreach centers in the hood being the only thing they show is kinda  The people acting like it's some secret CIA glorifying psyop are being hillarious tho.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 19:36
|
|
|
Yeah the African critique of Black Panther is something fascinating to me as an African American. It is very much an African American centric story and view point, as the main conflict is based around a longing of lost culture and a desire to have or hold on to something that was taken.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 19:41
|
|
|
kustomkarkommando posted:I mean there are plenty of African perspective pieces who happily rip into Black Panther as an extension of the western imaginations vision of Africa, with the fixation on "tribes" and ancient magical customs and sweeping sunset hued vistas and noble warriors and ceremonial combat which you know is fundamentally true and inherent in the source material. I think it's just been a victim of people who want to race to the quickest and most basic hottakes without actually thinking about the movie.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 20:00
|
|
|
The only part of BP that really deserves criticism is the horrible background in the final fight scene.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 20:03
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:The only part of BP that really deserves criticism is the horrible background in the final fight scene. Two black outfits in a dark tunnel. Did they get the fight choreographers from Arrow to sit in on that one?
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 20:51
|
|
|
Personally I thought the weird shockwave suit was a gimmick the movie didn't need and feels like an investor getting worried there are no superpowers in the superhero movie. Plus by MCU standards the CG was overall pretty bad.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 21:09
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:Personally I thought the weird shockwave suit was a gimmick the movie didn't need and feels like an investor getting worried there are no superpowers in the superhero movie. Apparently, the CG artists were super rushed for Black Panther. They had an insane number of shots that they did in some relatively short time frame, before having to basically immediately move onto Infinity. And also many of them went on to work on the next 2 Avengers films, proving they could do better (weird floating Ruffalo in Infinity was apparently another last minute rushed shot.)
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 21:53
|
|
|
ToastyPotato posted:Apparently, the CG artists were super rushed for Black Panther. They had an insane number of shots that they did in some relatively short time frame, before having to basically immediately move onto Infinity. And also many of them went on to work on the next 2 Avengers films, proving they could do better (weird floating Ruffalo in Infinity was apparently another last minute rushed shot.) Somebody probably actually shouted the phrase, "Agh, we don't have enough time to work on the rhinos!"
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 22:00
|
|
|
The suit thing feels more like them wanting it to do something other than basically just be bulletproof to show what makes vibranium cool and special. I mean, Hickman had him be able to command ghosts like loving Aragorn and TNC has Shuri being able to turn into a flock of birds and poo poo. They could have gone a lot crazier with the superpowers if they wanted.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 22:00
|
|
|
Gaz-L posted:The suit thing feels more like them wanting it to do something other than basically just be bulletproof to show what makes vibranium cool and special. I mean, Hickman had him be able to command ghosts like loving Aragorn and TNC has Shuri being able to turn into a flock of birds and poo poo. They could have gone a lot crazier with the superpowers if they wanted. The God of the Dead thing predates Hickman, I think? I started watching Teen Peaks/Archie Fucks (I think there was a third nickname for Riverdale that I'm forgetting) again (I fell off shortly after Archie broke out of jail). Holy poo poo Archie is really too dumb to live. He is super lucky he's pretty.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 22:19
|
|
|
I'm pretty sure T'challa becoming king of the dead happened in Hickman's FF.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 22:37
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:Personally I thought the weird shockwave suit was a gimmick the movie didn't need and feels like an investor getting worried there are no superpowers in the superhero movie. It was created by Stelfreeze for the comic, and Coates passed the idea on to Coogler.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 23:25
|
|
|
Rhyno posted:I'm pretty sure T'challa becoming king of the dead happened in Hickman's FF. Yeah, it was in FF, at that point thought it seemed like all it really meant was that T'Challa would have a whole secret city to himself and be able to call himself a king again. It was only in his Avengers/New Avengers saga that it started to matter and let him have powers and poo poo.
|
|
#
?
Aug 26, 2019 23:49
|
|
|
Open Marriage Night posted:It was created by Stelfreeze for the comic, and Coates passed the idea on to Coogler. Wait, when? I only recall him mentioning the suit has tracking tech so he can hunt like a panther from the early issues of A Nation Under Our Feet.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2019 00:33
|
|
|
TNC mentions the new suit powers created by Stelfreeze in a interview before the comic came out. I’ve also talked to Stelfreeze about it at a con last year. He talked about Coates and Coogler sharing ideas while the movie was in production. I was the first person to show him the Black Panther parody cover in the latest South Park game.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2019 01:10
|
|
Well my point is just that I never thought Black Panther needed more powers. He's Captain America but instead of a shield he's got lil' claws, and that's badass in its own right because he's still one of the most important and undefeatable superheroes in the Marvel universe. The shockwave powers made the actions scenes less interesting for me, and increased the amount of CGI effects covering up the shots.ToastyPotato posted:Apparently, the CG artists were super rushed for Black Panther. They had an insane number of shots that they did in some relatively short time frame, before having to basically immediately move onto Infinity. And also many of them went on to work on the next 2 Avengers films, proving they could do better (weird floating Ruffalo in Infinity was apparently another last minute rushed shot.) That explains a lot.
|
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2019 01:16
|
|
|
i mean hes always pulling out vibranium energy daggers and poo poo in the comics so why not a boom boom suit
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2019 01:18
|
|
|
I agree that he didn't need a new power, he's already the best, but the kinetic energy dispersion is the natural next step in weaponizing vibranium. It makes more sense than energy weapons or magic.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2019 01:44
|
|
|
It’ll all be worth it when we get a scene of Storm super charging his suit with a bolt of lightning. Wouldn’t be surprised if it happened already in the comics.
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2019 01:58
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 20:00 |
|
|
remember when thor accidentally supercharged tonys suit during their fight in avengers and then never had a payoff for that that still irks me
|
|
#
?
Aug 27, 2019 02:01
|
|