(Thread IKs:
fart simpson)
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Bloodnose posted:The protesters have five very specific, consistently reiterated demands: You are already changing the demand yourself and combining 2 demands into No.5. Stop doing press release and talk like human.
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Aug 26, 2019 08:44
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Yossarian-22 posted:Zha himself said that the CIA presence is blown out of proportion, but that there's definitely an intelligence presence. Given HK's autonomy/that weird photo where Julie Edeah met with the protest leaders why is that exactly so hard to believe? The "protest leader" was Joshua Wong, organiser of the 2014 Umbrella Revolution and not involved in leading the current anti-ELAB protest movement, which doesn't have a leader. He's already explained the "weird photo" of the public meeting with Julie Edeah in the lobby of a hotel, and was already lobbying for US support against the excessive force of the HKPF weeks prior to the meeting. That poo poo didn't really stop peven stan from busting a nut over the CIA collusion tho lol Who knows, maybe Zha is right and all the foreign journalists in HK have it wrong and should be surfing in Bali and commenting on the events in Hong Kong instead.
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Aug 26, 2019 08:44
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tino posted:You are already changing the demand yourself and combining 2 demands into No.5. Stop doing press release and talk like human. I mean, the demands kinda need to be stated over and over again with the amount of misinformation I'm seeing, regarding these people as violent rioters fighting for independence
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Aug 26, 2019 08:46
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tino posted:You are already changing the demand yourself and combining 2 demands into No.5. Stop doing press release and talk like human. No 5 became two things when protesters realized that Carrie Lam stepping down would just result in the Party appointing an even more obnoxious public servant. So the deal is she gotta step down and let the people choose her replacement.
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Aug 26, 2019 09:01
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what does it matter what the supposed demands of this decentralized and intentionally leaderless protest movement would be? even if they had a leadership counsil with central authority to formulate such a list, their existance or content is loving irrelevant if the CCP doesn't have any interest in accepting any of them. and with CCP acting like people completely uninterested in any kind of compromise, what with dicking around with "suspending" the bill and refusing to say whether or not they were gonna reintroduce it at any point, what possible choice of action does that even leave the protestors? go home and pray your face doesn't show up on the tapes when the arrest waves begin?
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Aug 26, 2019 11:14
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Kurnugia posted:what does it matter what the supposed demands of this decentralized and intentionally leaderless protest movement would be? even if they had a leadership counsil with central authority to formulate such a list, their existance or content is loving irrelevant if the CCP doesn't have any interest in accepting any of them. and with CCP acting like people completely uninterested in any kind of compromise, what with dicking around with "suspending" the bill and refusing to say whether or not they were gonna reintroduce it at any point, what possible choice of action does that even leave the protestors? go home and pray your face doesn't show up on the tapes when the arrest waves begin? Actually Beijing doesn't care about 3-4 of the demands and can deal to make the protesters go away if there is somebody to negociate with. They may even throw Lam under the bus for free. All of these are not that big of a deal including throwing the HKPD under the bus.
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Aug 26, 2019 12:03
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I mean the CCP isn't homogeneous either. Concede to the demands in HK (and I find them totally agreeable personally), and it risks setting the precedent that such a thing can happen in other cities, which might spook the municipal or regional party leadership and make them distrustful of the executive leadership and Beijing. This is why it's hard to chart a course, politically or ideologically, for Chinese executive leadership, is that there's very opaque and complex internal politics and whoever's at the top is constantly trying to keep various powerful individuals, institutions, and factions happy, lest they get outed and replaced with someone else. The Chinese leadership isn't only looking at Hong Kong and considering what message it might send to the general population about how they'll treat too much dissent, but to various regional and local leaders and elites, about who's got who's back if there's trouble somewhere else. Resolving the core material problems that probably fuel the bulk of HK popular dissent (like housing costs) would likely require going into direct conflict with HKs regional elite and their local interests, which is probably more problematic for the CCP in the long haul and opens up those same problems as above, while spooking foreign capital which is always scared of being expropriated or uncompensated. Sadly crushing the dissenters with paramilitary police and preserve the status quo might just be the least risky move. The mainland population seems largely nationalistic and in favor of this, so it's mainly just going to piss off the already pissed HK population and result in some bad press internationally. Especially since, at least elements of the protest movement, wave american flags and evoke America/The West as an ideal of democracy and prosperity (lmao  ), explicitly marking them out as alien and intrusive. The american project of symbolically binding democracy, prosperity, human and civil rights with americanism, capitalism, and imperialism, is one of the great triumphs of empire and tragedies of our time.
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Aug 26, 2019 13:17
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Pinback posted:I mean the CCP isn't homogeneous either. Concede to the demands in HK (and I find them totally agreeable personally), and it risks setting the precedent that such a thing can happen in other cities, which might spook the municipal or regional party leadership and make them distrustful of the executive leadership and Beijing. This is why it's hard to chart a course, politically or ideologically, for Chinese executive leadership, is that there's very opaque and complex internal politics and whoever's at the top is constantly trying to keep various powerful individuals, institutions, and factions happy, lest they get outed and replaced with someone else. The Chinese leadership isn't only looking at Hong Kong and considering what message it might send to the general population about how they'll treat too much dissent, but to various regional and local leaders and elites, about who's got who's back if there's trouble somewhere else. hmm yeah, although it is important to note the internal politics do not at all call to mind imperial rome
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Aug 26, 2019 13:21
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqueir6xja0 ostensibly this is about the Wolf Warrior movies, their disturbing undertones ( the movie's action scenes look decent, though edit: jesus christ at this comment quote:It truly disgusted me when Trevor Noah applauded the idea of China colonizing Africa, saying that Africans will get X amount of money this time instead of nothing like the last time.  forever trevor noah, it takes a true piece of poo poo to be in the conversation for worst late night host
get that OUT of my face has issued a correction as of 13:52 on Aug 26, 2019 |
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Aug 26, 2019 13:46
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Wolf Warrior sucks. Wolf Warrior 2 is the good one.
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Aug 26, 2019 14:38
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get that OUT of my face posted:
it makes sense in a very depressing way - Africa was enslaved by western countries when they were colonies, now post decolonization western countries prop up dictators and sponsor genocides. China can’t possibly make things worse, can they? not something I can evaluate the validity of and I doubt Noah could either given that there’s an entire continent north of South Africa
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Aug 26, 2019 14:45
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hobbesmaster posted:it makes sense in a very depressing way - Africa was enslaved by western countries when they were colonies, now post decolonization western countries prop up dictators and sponsor genocides. China can’t possibly make things worse, can they?
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Aug 26, 2019 15:03
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get that OUT of my face posted:the video i posted talks a little bit about Chinese imperialism in Africa, which ties in to the plot of Wolf Warrior 2. the guy who made it is of the opinion that it's actually worse than its European counterpart. i wouldn't go that far, but it's certainly not good, nor is it empowering or enriching these countries imagine thinking that anything China is doing right now, regardless of its impact, is as bad as Europe was during the Scamble for Africa or Atlantic slave trade period lmao.
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Aug 26, 2019 15:12
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Bloodnose posted:Jimmy Lai also speaks pretty good English and has appeared on CNN and others for pro-democracy pieces. I remember he did a bunch of interviews back during the Umbrella Movement so I decided to punch up YouTube and see what he's done lately, this is a great first result: why are the posters who are insisting the protests are good insisting on talking about a guy who sounds like a younger hipper rupert murdoch like do any of you have any idea where youre posting right now because its like youre intentionally picking the least possible convincing arguments get that OUT of my face posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oqueir6xja0 there is something incredibly silly about using this as an example for why the ccp is evil when their entire evil plan for taking over africa is to build infrastructure whereas our evil plan is to just build a million random military bases with no obvious purpose and hope no one asks what the gently caress theyre doing there
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Aug 26, 2019 15:14
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Some Guy TT posted:there is something incredibly silly about using this as an example for why the ccp is evil when their entire evil plan for taking over africa is to build infrastructure whereas our evil plan is to just build a million random military bases with no obvious purpose and hope no one asks what the gently caress theyre doing there get that OUT of my face has issued a correction as of 15:19 on Aug 26, 2019 |
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Aug 26, 2019 15:17
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get that OUT of my face posted:did you ignore the disclaimer at the beginning of the video? both things you pointed out are being done as a way to "help" Africa. in the US case, it's security, in the Chinese case, it's infrastructure. but look closer and they're both ways to entrap them long-term you framed the video as being about the wolf warrior movies which i havent seen and he doesnt start talking about it until a third of the way through it but its besides the point because as far as i know chinas plans in regards to africa have nothing to do with any pretense of providing security and from what i can tell this wolf warrior movie is just the chinese version of the same kind of ultra macho bullshit we overproduced so much in the eighties its now an entire throwback genre
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Aug 26, 2019 15:27
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like i said, the video is scattershot in its focus, but one of the main points of the video is that this kind of Chinese action movie isn't really different than the kind of propaganda cranked out by Hollywood. the only real difference is that anti-militaristic propaganda is explicitly banned in the Chinese film industry, while it's implicit in Hollywood through the illusion of choice
get that OUT of my face has issued a correction as of 15:38 on Aug 26, 2019 |
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Aug 26, 2019 15:30
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yeah see this is what i mean about ineffective arguments china made some movies that follow the america propaganda formula that dont relate to any obvious foreign policy goal and comes off as transparently silly to any non china outligned outsider meanwhile the american propaganda formula is so pervasive in american film culture that no one even notices that it exists anymore even in foreign countries and the guy even repeats the line about how china unfairly prevents american films from monopolizing their domestic market as if it is our god given right to flood the world with lovely comic book movies
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Aug 26, 2019 15:44
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you realize that i'm not disagreeing with you on a single point you're making, right
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Aug 26, 2019 16:24
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Some Guy TT posted:yeah see this is what i mean about ineffective arguments china made some movies that follow the america propaganda formula that dont relate to any obvious foreign policy goal and comes off as transparently silly to any non china outligned outsider meanwhile the american propaganda formula is so pervasive in american film culture that no one even notices that it exists anymore even in foreign countries and the guy even repeats the line about how china unfairly prevents american films from monopolizing their domestic market as if it is our god given right to flood the world with lovely comic book movies I never watch these Chinese movies (unless they copy the awesome Arnold one liners.) To me they are just Chinese version of dumb rear end Hollywood summer movies but they get to keep 100% of the profile instead of cutting 25% of the box office to a Hollywood studio. The script or the premise literally doesn't matter.
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Aug 26, 2019 16:28
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Some Guy TT posted:why are the posters who are insisting the protests are good insisting on talking about a guy who sounds like a younger hipper rupert murdoch which countries are doing this?
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Aug 26, 2019 16:43
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a primate posted:which countries are doing this? google US AfriCom
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Aug 26, 2019 16:46
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Some Guy TT posted:
uh   people who defend chinese neocolonialism as "just building infrastructure in countries that need it" are ignoring that was a huge argument in defense of 19th century colonialism and imperialism Sheng-Ji Yang has issued a correction as of 17:00 on Aug 26, 2019 |
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Aug 26, 2019 16:56
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whoa you mean wolf warrior is actually a movie about building infrastructure thats not what the video said at all
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Aug 26, 2019 17:04
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sincx has issued a correction as of 05:28 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Aug 26, 2019 18:30
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:people who defend chinese neocolonialism as "just building infrastructure in countries that need it" are ignoring that was a huge argument in defense of 19th century colonialism and imperialism Well the big difference is that the Chinese don't own literally everything.
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Aug 26, 2019 18:44
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https://twitter.com/SenSanders/status/1166018925420789762
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Aug 26, 2019 18:45
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Well the big difference is that the Chinese don't own literally everything. i mean yeah theyre operating in the same way other capitalist neocolonialists operate
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Aug 26, 2019 18:48
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Some Guy TT posted:why are the posters who are insisting the protests are good insisting on talking about a guy who sounds like a younger hipper rupert murdoch none of that was meant to argue about the protests. I started off explaining why Carl Zha mentions locusts when he talks about rich Hong Kongers who like the protests (has he pointed to a single one besides Jimmy Lai?) then I went off on a tangent about Jimmy Lai because he's an interesting character. I mean if you want me to talk about the nightmarishly evil rich capitalist ghouls who oppose the protests, we'll be here all day. Do I start with Superman himself Li Ka-shing? The Kwok Brothers? Lee Shau Kee? Henry Cheng? But like you said that's not a really strong argument. Bad people can like good things and good people can like bad things. Although I'll say once again, it's a little bit "hrrrmmmm" when people who think they're leftists are tripping over themselves to carry water for the cops beating up protesters on behalf of some of the richest men on earth. Might want to double check your literature on that one.
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Aug 26, 2019 21:12
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Well the big difference is that the Chinese don't own literally everything. Not only that, but unlike European colonizers who exploited african slave labor to build "infrastructure" China uses its own workers thus minimizing exploitation. There is simply no comparison between European colonialism and chinese internationalist aid projects
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Aug 26, 2019 22:48
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Mainland protests extract concessions from the government all the time, so it's not like "Beijing" has some sort of principled stance about "never negotiating with terrorists" or whatever. If the protests had settled for their original demands then things could have easily moved on. Correct, for instance in Xinjiang province there were numerous protests against lack of jobs which was perceived due to influx of people from other provinces. Beijing conceded and built numerous work camps which literally gives state employment to a million or two people after the protests stopped.
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Aug 26, 2019 22:53
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sincx has issued a correction as of 05:28 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Aug 26, 2019 23:06
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Typo posted:Not only that, but unlike European colonizers who exploited african slave labor to build "infrastructure" China uses its own workers thus minimizing exploitation. There is simply no comparison between European colonialism and chinese internationalist aid projects
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Aug 26, 2019 23:41
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Soy Division posted:so local labor gets no chance to benefit from these projects, wow big win for socialism there so you are saying trapping africans into a cycle of wage slavery is good? 
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Aug 26, 2019 23:42
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sincx has issued a correction as of 05:28 on Mar 23, 2021 |
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Aug 26, 2019 23:42
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Typo posted:typo is back https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVkUvmDQ3HY
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Aug 26, 2019 23:46
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sincx posted:In case you didn't know, Typo is a gimmick pro-PRC account (in this thread at least).
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Aug 26, 2019 23:46
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Typo posted:Correct https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xZEJvDlOlg
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Aug 27, 2019 00:42
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yaay typos back
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Aug 27, 2019 00:55
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Correct
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Aug 27, 2019 00:58
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