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https://www.warframe.com/news/saint-of-altra info on what's in this weeks patch, such as PoE bounty bonuses https://forums.warframe.com/topic/1067398-melee-revisit-phase-1-feedback-megathread/page/54/?tab=comments#comment-10992452 "[DE posted:Bear on Melee 3.0"]Greetings Tenno!
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Aug 26, 2019 23:39
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Kesper North posted:(This game does, through the sheer variety of things you can do, also have a lot of diverse experiences, so if anything I feel like people are complaining that it is broad rather than deep.) Yeah this is absolutely it. I enjoy Warframe but I've pretty much tapped out the well of novel experiences currently in the game. At the same time, though, the game isn't just about novelty -- Warframe has several incredibly impressive and deep systems in it that can be mastered, that have massive potential for both customization and skill, and it just... does very little with them. For example, almost if not all of the parkour challenges that are currently in the game were designed for a previous movement system that was more restrictive and rigid; on the one hand, it's an extremely good thing that we have the new parkour system, but on the other hand simply by virtue of what got iterated on and what didn't, we effectively "lost" a bunch of hand-crafted challenges as the game moved past them. I'm very much looking forward to Railjack, for the reasons you mention, and in particular and carefully separating and defining roles is one of the best ways to give players at different levels of mastery the ability to contribute to a shared goal; I think it's a good opportunity (hopefully one that will be realized) to introduce a new system with some depth without making it unreasonably exclusive or alienating. I especially like that they're deliberately making it possible, but harder, to do Railjack missions solo -- a lot of old content in Warframe is solo-capable by coincidence, often resulting in an experience that's possible on a "sure, why not" basis but not actually very interesting (see: solo Eidolons). Hopefully that conscious focus on it will help. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Aug 26, 2019 |
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Aug 26, 2019 23:41
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So mag has an alternate helmet called Gauss, and now Gauss comes out with an alternate helmet called Mag, otp incoming.
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Aug 27, 2019 00:02
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Malloc Voidstar posted:https://www.warframe.com/news/saint-of-altra As a melee player, I don't really care when 3.0 comes out. Fast switching solved my issues so anything else is gravy.
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Aug 27, 2019 00:19
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Nalesh posted:So mag has an alternate helmet called Gauss, and now Gauss comes out with an alternate helmet called Mag, otp incoming. And Grendel's going to watch. 
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Aug 27, 2019 00:23
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Also would you say that Grendel will have a Vor fetish?
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Aug 27, 2019 00:23
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Profit taker is good to run when the thermia credit doubler is active. Then load your own credit doubler booster, a Smeeta, maybe a chroma...
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Aug 27, 2019 01:04
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Mesadoram posted:In Duke it basically does that. You shoot the enemies. They balloon and explode. Might need to make a build around the Nukor...
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Aug 27, 2019 01:04
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Haha whoah I wasnt trying to promote crunch or anything just then. For what it's worth I think DE have the balance about right. There's plenty in this game to keep any reasonable person occupied for as long as it is bearable to play a single game. And they also seem to be trying to tie together the disparate parts of their game into a whole. I suspect these guys, if anyone can, are going to be the ones that, in years to come, will be credited for coming the closest it is able to get to accidentally delivering what idiots like Chris Roberts keep promising. Really, though, I just wanted to get a sly dig in at frontier because they are at the other end of the scale when it comes to realising the potential of what they just built. As in they sit there and just...... don't. For years and years, they just sit there and don't. And that makes me sigh, and then wish. It's easy to see how people get drawn in.
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Aug 27, 2019 02:03
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Screaming Idiot posted:And Grendel's going to watch. He got the body of someone that'd like NTR all right.
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Aug 27, 2019 02:06
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:Fortuna is easily the best update they've done since I started playing -- two new bosses, a bunch of new missions, a bigger and more lively open world than the Plains, and a shitload of professional voice acting -- and it's still really blatantly padded out with daily standing requirements and pure timesink grinds like Toroids (especially before the patch that made them drop from Raknoids), as well as having some disappointing misfires even in the content they clearly spent the most time on (Profit-Taker is an interesting step forward in terms of the history of DE boss design, but it's not much fun in itself and there's not much to gain from running it). To me, Profit Taker was actually a step in the wrong direction, at least as far as Warframe was concerned. You could tell by who got excited for it and their reactions when they had done it a few times. People who want traditional raid style encounters, who after they had done it asked for more like that, but harder, more exclusive, with exclusive rewards. Some more numbers to hammer their numbers into. When Exploiter was introduced, that for me was the real step in the right direction as far as bosses were concerned. A skill based encounter that made people feel badass with heroic moments. Not difficult in the sense that your numbers had better be yay big, but actually mechanically challenging with you making use of the game's movement and mobility and accuracy on the move.
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Aug 27, 2019 02:08
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Nalesh posted:So mag has an alternate helmet called Gauss, and now Gauss comes out with an alternate helmet called Mag, otp incoming. Unfortunately they're the same polarity and repel each other, the tragic romance of warframe
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Aug 27, 2019 03:05
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Improbable Lobster posted:Unfortunately they're the same polarity and repel each other, the tragic romance of warframe I was wondering earlier what happens when he uses his 3 inside her 2. ... I did not mean to make that sound naughty ... Er, but yeah, his 3 absorbing kinetic energy when there's bullets bouncing around inside a Magnetize bubble seems like it might have an interaction that is odd.
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Aug 27, 2019 03:14
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I wouldn't describe either of those bosses as especially mechanically challenging, and of the two definitely not Exploiter Orb -- which is basically just a 10-minute QTE with cutscenes mixed in. Profit-Taker has an explicit time limit, a lot of room to do it slower or faster than the average group, tests mobility far more than Exploiter does (mainly in the pylon phase), and -- although it falls apart once you start talking about really fast PT runs -- a typical run is much easier if you're smart about splitting your attention between clearing adds and attacking the spider. It's like 3/4s of the way to being a good, interesting boss. However, there are three major problems with Profit-Taker. First, constant knockdown just isn't fun. Interrupting the player's ability to control their character -- especially in an action game like Warframe -- really sucks. It's frustrating, and it's not good for depth either, because while you've lost control of your character you are, by definition, not being tested on execution (because you can't do anything anyways.) It's the kind of thing that should be reserved for when the player massively fucks up and needs to be told "no, don't do that, ever", but Profit-Taker spams knockdown effects constantly, even after they reduced the additional knockdown from the adds. Second, the cyclical elemental vulnerability gimmick just doesn't work. Full-on tryhard groups ignore it, because they can just cover every element and fire continuously: in other words, there's no skill check, just a knowledge check. On the other hand, for pub groups, it just forces you to spend some of your time waiting around with your dick in your hands, or, at best, killing adds. I don't mind that the fight "reminds" players to kill adds sometimes, but at the same time, being forced to do something because the other choice is arbitrarily removed isn't really interesting or deep gameplay either. Third, the reward table sucks. Unless you can stack like 3-4 different credit-doubling effects like that dude upthread mentioned, there's no long-term reason to improve your Profit-Taker times; it's basically just one of the many gates on Fortuna standing and once you've maxed that out you're done with it. (I will say that if it were better credits than Index all the time, that would pretty much solve this problem. You always need credits, even if they're not super-exciting) Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 03:28 on Aug 27, 2019 |
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Aug 27, 2019 03:16
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Kesper North posted:What they've showed of Railjack looks like it might require, or at least have the potential for, some fairly complex team coordination, which might fill the bill for non-piss-easy content. This is weird, because I know everyone says they want hard WoW-raiding-style team coordination content. The same everyone also vocally rejected NW objectives requiring multiplayer so hard you're getting patch notes burns about it. Ditto for long NW objectives. I really don't want DE trying to implement difficult content, because they tried that with dolons and the result is that a meta forms and that's the opposite of fun. Exploiter, as lame as invulnerability phases are, at least fulfills the goal of just bringing whatever and rolling with it. If Railjack requires teamwork beyond what pubbies can muster it's just going to fuel all the bad tropes of online games.
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Aug 27, 2019 03:18
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Dolons are fun once you understand them, though. The problem is they're some of the most obfuscated, poorly-explained fights even by the already extremely obtuse standards of Warframe, and also (in a very closely related issue) they're badly designed from a visual standpoint. The long Nightwave objectives sucked because you're spending an hour doing nothing except proving that you can spend an hour doing nothing. The reason the team requirement is bad, in that context, is that it adds the extra hurdle of organizing a group to something that was limited only by your tedium threshold in the first place.
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Aug 27, 2019 03:22
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Anyways I'm ambivalent on the subject of content that requires a high level of coordination. I think it would probably be fine and that people who constantly protest against it even existing in an optional context are weirdly spiteful and exaggerating the negatives, but it's not my main focus either. What I'm interested in is bosses and missions that challenge you to be good at action games. Like, less "WoW Raid", more "give me the bosses and horde rooms from Doom 2016, but in Warframe."
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Aug 27, 2019 03:30
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Mailer posted:This is weird, because I know everyone says they want hard WoW-raiding-style team coordination content. The same everyone also vocally rejected NW objectives requiring multiplayer so hard you're getting patch notes burns about it. Ditto for long NW objectives. I agree. My hope and hypothesis is that the complex group activity we see is optional kickflippin' flourish. You CAN have two away team members board and take a Grineer Galleon to help you in the boss fight, but you don't have to, and that's sort of what I think Steve alluded to when he said it was doable solo but difficult. There was a "ships boarded" and "ships taken" stat in the mission summary, I noticed, so presumably there could be added rewards for doing so. I thought it would be neat if you got to keep the galleon somehow.
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Aug 27, 2019 03:33
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Like imagine this, except that instead of being built around Doomguy's respectable but modest mobility -- meaning a perfectly flat arena plus pillars that you can jump or climb from right next to them -- it were built around Warframe parkour: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l-yJBuNs4HY that would be awesome note also: - the boss is always, actively trying to kill you instead of standing around like an idiot - the boss is never 100% immune to damage, although it takes bonus damage during some phases - the boss's attacks are fast and difficult to dodge, but extremely clear to read -- they use high-contrast colors, and there are no unimportant projectiles or particle effects to distract you from the stuff that will kill or help you - damage mitigation and output (for both the boss and the Doomguy) are carefully balanced against each other to make sure that shooting things is satisfying for the player, and getting shot is dangerous without being instantly lethal or unfair - there's a fairly consistent pattern of attacks - there's a cool cinematic moment where your character gets to be a badass, but it's at the very end and signifies that you've won the fight, instead of interrupting the normal gameplay Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 03:47 on Aug 27, 2019 |
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Aug 27, 2019 03:40
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dolons wouldn't require a meta outside big game hunter arcane sellers without the very limiting IRL timer (and no timer would tank the rare arcane market anyways) like yeah there's teams that can tricap in 50 minutes or whatever the current meta standard is but im sure most people would much rather just do a single tricap whenever they want with maybe a bit more variation in squad loadouts, whether it takes 20m or 60m, then go make dinner or something have a hard time believing any streamer is quitting warframe cause there's not more content like dolons anyways
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Aug 27, 2019 03:43
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anytime i open up twitch its not like i see anyone big name streamer doing arbys or dolons or even PTs its usually just fissures or mot while talking about their day probably cause none of those end game things are probably read on a stream as all that interesting, anymore than just loving around in warframe regularly
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Aug 27, 2019 03:49
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Mailer posted:This is weird, because I know everyone says they want hard WoW-raiding-style team coordination content. The same everyone also vocally rejected NW objectives requiring multiplayer so hard you're getting patch notes burns about it. Ditto for long NW objectives. Neither of those are "hard WoW-raiding-style team coordination content" though - the former was "find someone that fulfills a friend or clan requirement to be a warm body" and the latter was "have an unbroken hour to kill" What they've showed with Railjack is much closer to what raid content should have always been in this game, I guess it took until now for the studio to large enough and for the tech to be 'there' enough for that to be possible though Edit: The one single Nightwave objective that isn't just "do a dolon" which requires any amount of coordination is doing the Index with a team and not letting the enemy score for three rounds, and even that just barely passes above the low, low bar set by "bring a Nekros to the kuva fortress for an hour and just fart around or whatever, your time is of no meaning to us"
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Aug 27, 2019 03:54
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like im all for a continuation of more parkour element gameplay baked into the game, like parts of exploiter or how the ropalyst fight and new jupiter tilesets encourage being better at latching on to things and moving around in a non-conventional manner but i don't think if we got a ton of this in the next six to eight months it'd prevent another wave of dramatic Im Quitting Warframe videos next year as were in the lull waiting for the duviri paradox to drop
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Aug 27, 2019 04:04
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Berke Negri posted:like im all for a continuation of more parkour element gameplay baked into the game, like parts of exploiter or how the ropalyst fight and new jupiter tilesets encourage being better at latching on to things and moving around in a non-conventional manner but i don't think if we got a ton of this in the next six to eight months it'd prevent another wave of dramatic Im Quitting Warframe videos next year as were in the lull waiting for the duviri paradox to drop The connection to "quitting Warframe" is more the lack of worthwhile, repeatable endgame stuff. It's just that every time this conversation comes up people instantly identify "repeatable endgame" with "literally just take raids from WoW". I'm trying to illustrate that there's a better way.
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Aug 27, 2019 04:08
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So I finally beat Octavia's quest and I am building the Chanteuse as we speak, so what can I expect? Is she as broken as people say?
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Aug 27, 2019 04:27
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:The connection to "quitting Warframe" is more the lack of worthwhile, repeatable endgame stuff. It's just that every time this conversation comes up people instantly identify "repeatable endgame" with "literally just take raids from WoW". I'm trying to illustrate that there's a better way. yeah i get that i meant most these streamers have just been playing the game regularly for five or so years so i don't know what you could really do to deter them from wanting to take a break (and loudly announce the game is dying etc) raids definitely weren't it, those were as popular as conclave you have EOS which has leaderboards seeing how far optimized groups can get, not it arbys, which is like mot on steroids, not it this recent kerfuffle is happening with a big update this week and empyrean adding a bunch of stuff in the near future so its kind of like what, do they see this as, it'd be better we really refined corridor shooting or something i dont know
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Aug 27, 2019 04:32
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Another issue with Profit-Taker that I forgot to mention earlier is that the boss, the adds, the snow, the mushrooms, and the sky all share the same subdued white / blue / tan / maroon color scheme, and literally all of Profit-Taker's attacks except one are white and blue. And somehow it's still visually clearer and more coherent than Eidolons. 
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Aug 27, 2019 04:34
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i think someone on the discord mentioned which sounds about right is in warframe while farming is a thing its not like other online game in that stats are fixed, while mods are not (and outside of rivens largely accessible to everyone one way or the other) so another online game may have like here is the BIS optimal stat distribution all of warframes systems are all over the map and you can swap mods out as you need. you don't need to watch a guide on best ways to farm a rifle with the just right stats, you crack enough relics you get the rifle and you put the mods in and you're good to go bosses don't have 23423 million hp so dps races are only meta in a narrow band of endgame things, and being most optimal is kind of optional while being more than good enough is very accessible so while you can upload a vid like "yeah this build is good" its not like you need to update the video every 3-6 months like many other online games. a lot of builds for warframes are still perfectly great like 1-2 years later this does kind of hamper it with the hardcore community but this game isnt really hardcore its just do i look cool doing dumb poo poo and having fun
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Aug 27, 2019 04:43
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Mesadoram posted:So I finally beat Octavia's quest and I am building the Chanteuse as we speak, so what can I expect? Is she as broken as people say? You get a rolling stereo that taunts enemies and reflects damage. You can provide invisibility, multishot, melee attack speed, improved movement speed (requires teammates to perform specific actions to the rhythm), and up to 400% increased damage all while playing music for your teammates. Your passive regenerates 1 energy per second on ability use which will stack with zenurik's energy bubble. Yes, Octavia is obscenely good. Horace Kinch fucked around with this message at 04:47 on Aug 27, 2019 |
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Aug 27, 2019 04:44
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Mailer posted:This is weird, because I know everyone says they want hard WoW-raiding-style team coordination content. The same everyone also vocally rejected NW objectives requiring multiplayer so hard you're getting patch notes burns about it. Ditto for long NW objectives. i enjoy and want highly choreographed raiding (ask me why i started playing an mmo again). i also had zero problem with hour kuva survivals with a clan mate. i like doing eidolons with a competent group (carrying 3 noobs is a big slog). i would love content that made me feel like i needed to use voice chat in this game.
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Aug 27, 2019 04:56
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Awesome! posted:i would love content that made me feel like i needed to use voice chat in this game. no thanks that said everyone would probably be doing dolons a lot more if they dropped the day/night timer PT/Exploiter are fairly rewarding but most people that can do them good are still probably indefinitely coasting after the like double double drop fortuna weekend earlier in the year
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Aug 27, 2019 05:02
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Berke Negri posted:no thanks i really loved raiding in destiny though
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Aug 27, 2019 05:05
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:The connection to "quitting Warframe" is more the lack of worthwhile, repeatable endgame stuff. It's just that every time this conversation comes up people instantly identify "repeatable endgame" with "literally just take raids from WoW". I'm trying to illustrate that there's a better way. You're always going to run into the same problems. If this is repeatable content, then people repeat the content until it stops being worthwhile or they get so bored they stop caring about the rewards. This happens regardless of the content. Railjack will be new and fun and cool and we'll all run missions a million times and get all the loot and quit doing it a few weeks later. This isn't a bad thing - I'd argue that content casual players can experience in its entirety is great - but it's just what happens when you let people play on their own schedule. Just having different content doesn't change that. Edit: Awesome! posted:i enjoy and want highly choreographed raiding (ask me why i started playing an mmo again). i also had zero problem with hour kuva survivals with a clan mate. i like doing eidolons with a competent group (carrying 3 noobs is a big slog). This is the exact opposite of why I'm playing Warframe. I don't want playdates that need to be organized days in advance and yelling at people for being ~suboptimal~ and giving my phone number to someone on the internet so they can call me at 03:00 when a dragon spawns. I like being able to pop in/out, or do silly stuff like fashion or floof hunting, instead of the constant pressure and drama that MMOs cater to. Mailer fucked around with this message at 05:19 on Aug 27, 2019 |
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Aug 27, 2019 05:09
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that kind of by the second gameplay just isn't this game i think, and the only way to make it so would probably be to delete like 3/4 of all the frames in the game, maybe half the weapons at least, and try to balance around that let alone a bunch of other stuff otherwise it'd just be super optimized endgame content like dolons where its like 5 frames out of 40 are invited and maybe one or three types of gun and while there's meta groups out there doing that i dont think most are probably thinking "this right here is the real warframe experience"
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Aug 27, 2019 05:11
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if the game required a goon on the mic yelling at the rhino to roar so we could get over some dps phase on a boss i probably would have never bothered with this game in the first place, there's other games for that kind of stuff
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Aug 27, 2019 05:14
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Berke Negri posted:there's other games for that kind of stuff
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Aug 27, 2019 05:17
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yeah for what it's worth that are basically zero games that have that, but also good movement + gunplay
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Aug 27, 2019 05:17
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OK another new player question what should I spend my Nightwave cred on, potatoes? Forma?
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Aug 27, 2019 05:21
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Phobophilia posted:OK another new player question what should I spend my Nightwave cred on, potatoes? Forma? nitain
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Aug 27, 2019 05:22
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hats
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Aug 27, 2019 05:25
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