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Space is just the best insulator in the game. It doesn't heat or cool things, but it does delete fluids and gases. If you heat something in space up, it'll stay heated up, unless it's deleted. The trick to cooling down your base is an aquatuner inside the boil chamber for a steam turbine.
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Aug 27, 2019 20:46
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endlessmonotony posted:Space is just the best insulator in the game. It doesn't heat or cool things, but it does delete fluids and gases. If you heat something in space up, it'll stay heated up, unless it's deleted. Yeah I need plastics for that, and I need to get a farm to grow the materials to make the suits to go out and find some oil. That's my next step now that I have the cooling under control. But everything around my base is heating up to 50+ degrees so I have to go out fast and grab some plants before It's too late. It's kind of scary that all the water below my base has turned into steam in pockets because of the intense heat. Makes for an interesting time. I'm thinking of using that heat to run a steam turbine or to maybe to clear dirty water rather than use electricity.
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Aug 27, 2019 20:57
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Things uncovered in space will get very hot, as searing hot regolith rains on it from above. I find I have to regularly replace my solar panels when the mesh blocks above them break, and once the panels overheat they're not getting back to safe temperatures. But any fluid exposed to space is deleted, so you can safely vent hot gases there.
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Aug 27, 2019 20:59
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Solar panel protection is a layer of bunker doors followed by mesh blocks a couple spaces underneath and your solar panels below that (leaving a single line of space between the mesh and your panels to prevent heat transfer). You can hook up satellite automation output to catch when meteor showers occur so the doors close, protecting the mesh layer underneath from direct impacts. Afterward the bunker doors open, letting the light back down to your panels and the regolith to be mined out. For some reason window blocks negate 10% of the total light shining through it even though it's harder to produce than mesh which don't.  Also clean up is a real bitch to setup because robo-miners heat up while in operation, requiring an active cooling system in place due to the vacuum environment.
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Aug 27, 2019 22:00
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You can use the meteor defense laser mod 
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Aug 27, 2019 22:25
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What do you guys think is a fair power consumption for like, an electrolyser + piped output for just oxygen? This mod adds one for 480w which seems fair to me, but I'm curious.
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Aug 27, 2019 22:26
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It’s 600w for the electrolyzer and 2 pumps, which you’d need for the 880g made per second. Technically another 240W for the hydrogen pump you’d also need.
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Aug 27, 2019 22:34
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Sage Grimm posted:Solar panel protection is a layer of bunker doors followed by mesh blocks a couple spaces underneath and your solar panels below that (leaving a single line of space between the mesh and your panels to prevent heat transfer). You can hook up satellite automation output to catch when meteor showers occur so the doors close, protecting the mesh layer underneath from direct impacts. Afterward the bunker doors open, letting the light back down to your panels and the regolith to be mined out. With space-metal you can just have the regolith cool the robo-miners.
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Aug 27, 2019 22:39
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Mazz posted:It’s 600w for the electrolyzer and 2 pumps, which you’d need for the 880g made per second. Technically another 240W for the hydrogen pump you’d also need. Yeah but you rig it to only run part time based on pressure, so it's reasonable for a replacement building to cost less power than that. It depends on how tight you pack everything up but I don't think any of the combinations I've seen actually have both the oxygen pumps going 100% of the time, and certainly not the hydrogen one.
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Aug 27, 2019 22:46
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My oxygen pumps will run at nearly full uptime until there’s no space left to disperse it. Design of the area around the electrolyzer is important for pressure issues. Buy my point is more that if you’re going to get 100% efficiency from a piped output electrolyzer you’re assuming 100% creation/pump efficiency from a non-piped one. That should really equal 600w until you run out of space to put said oxygen. The hydrogen pump power is optional because as he said it’s not making hydrogen. I also don’t really consider marginal power as a metric, only total draw on a circuit. Past the early stages total power draw is really just finding a source you can keep up with, be it coal, oil, NG, solar, etc. Mazz fucked around with this message at 22:53 on Aug 27, 2019 |
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Aug 27, 2019 22:50
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Mazz posted:It’s 600w for the electrolyzer and 2 pumps, which you’d need for the 880g made per second. Technically another 240W for the hydrogen pump you’d also need. edit2: ahh, yeah, got the pump cost wrong - that'd do it Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 22:55 on Aug 27, 2019 |
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Aug 27, 2019 22:52
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:The mod only pipes the oxygen, not the hydrogen. As far as I can tell it replaces the 120w electrolyzer, the 120w filter, and two 120w pumps - did I miss something? Any hydrogen pumping would be external. I'm hoping to make it less fiddly, not less power consumed. (I realize there's already some gains in terms of being perfectly efficient at pumping just oxygen, but that seems like less of a big deal.) Pumps are 240W, and you don’t need a filter if you build the electrolyzer so that gravity splits them. It’s actually deceptively simple. This is more detail than you need but the top part is relevant:  The one tile gap above the door and the atmo sensor at 250g for the pump insures that hydrogen is never not occupying that gap, filtering the gasses naturally. Since wheezes need phosphor now I just combined 3 electro setups into 1. All the clock sensors are just there to control the doors since it makes construction way easier Mazz fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Aug 27, 2019 |
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Aug 27, 2019 22:54
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Yeah there's a lot of extremely convoluted looking setups for gas separation but just getting it done isn't really that complicated, the complicated ones about getting it done with fewest tiles and with highest efficiency. You absolutely do not need to do something involving a bunch of tricky bridges or anything weird, just put the light gas pump(s) up high and the heavy gas pump(s) low and use atmo sensors to check for a high-ish pressure threshold. protip: it's a lot easier to see how it all works with the hard-edge element view (F4) Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 23:04 on Aug 27, 2019 |
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Aug 27, 2019 23:01
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Rigging all your pumps with pressure sensors is a good way to save power, liquid and gas pumps will happily operate to shift a few grams of material if you let them, make sure there's at at least a few hundred grams of pressure for gas pumps and a few hundred kilos for liquids.
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Aug 27, 2019 23:06
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Sage Grimm posted:Solar panel protection is a layer of bunker doors followed by mesh blocks a couple spaces underneath and your solar panels below that (leaving a single line of space between the mesh and your panels to prevent heat transfer). You can hook up satellite automation output to catch when meteor showers occur so the doors close, protecting the mesh layer underneath from direct impacts. Afterward the bunker doors open, letting the light back down to your panels and the regolith to be mined out. I don't know how exploity you'd consider it, but you can build a row of horizontal airlock doors on top of the mesh tiles with an automation circuit set up to close them for a single frame every few seconds, and they'll crush all of the solid regolith tiles into loose drops.
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Aug 27, 2019 23:14
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Mazz posted:Pumps are 240W, and you don’t need a filter if you build the electrolyzer so that gravity splits them. It’s actually deceptively simple.
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Aug 27, 2019 23:16
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:A thing of beauty, drat. I already use at atmo sensor on my carbon skimmer for the same reason, it makes sense. I have....a lot of things that turn on "occasionally" share a circuit and my plan for not overloading wire is "pray". Automation is really powerful in this but I also don't want to burn refined metal on too much of it before I have a refinery up. If you're map has lead sources, like around the oil biomes, it's what I make most of my automation out of. It doesn't melt till over 275C and you'd be hard pressed to push anything that high outside of aquatuner rooms and that poo poo, and that's what steel is for anyway. Here's some other views of it for any details you might want:    I'd link the temperature overlay but its not very impressive, I use a cool slush line to feed the electrolyzers but that pipe looks like this:  and it turns out when you pipe 200C petroleum in the middle of that run it kind of ruins everything till you get it cooled back down. If you have any questions about the electrolyzer setup just ask. Mazz fucked around with this message at 23:44 on Aug 27, 2019 |
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Aug 27, 2019 23:21
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Yeah, lead is freaking great for going nuts with automation and conductive wires. Just don't use it to build anything with an overheat temperature (eg gas/liquid shutoffs) unless it's in an area you're actively keeping cool because that fucker WILL find a way to overheat. And don't build anything in space out of it because regolith glancing at it sideways will cause it to melt instantly.
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Aug 27, 2019 23:35
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What is the hottest temperature you can make in the game? I know that I have 1500C temps with lava and the surrounding rocks. There is one metal that has a 999C failure point, so I guess that's the limit without using the environment around you?
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Aug 27, 2019 23:50
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reminder that refined metals are really good for radiating pipes and tempshift plates.
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Aug 27, 2019 23:55
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Flesh Forge posted:reminder that refined metals are really good for radiating pipes and tempshift plates. Don't you needed refined metals for radiated pipes?
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Aug 27, 2019 23:59
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Mazz posted:If you're map has lead sources, like around the oil biomes, it's what I make most of my automation out of. It doesn't melt till over 275C and you'd be hard pressed to push anything that high outside of aquatuner rooms and that poo poo, and that's what steel is for anyway. Are you cooling the hydrogen for some specific reason, or is it just like, filling the wheezwort chamber with hydrogen because they remove more heat from hydrogen than oxygen? I understand the radiator pattern for cooling the oxygen across the wheezeworts, but does the weaving pattern of the hydrogen pipes before they hit the generators do anything for you?
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Aug 28, 2019 00:00
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Hamelekim posted:What is the hottest temperature you can make in the game? I know that I have 1500C temps with lava and the surrounding rocks. There is one metal that has a 999C failure point, so I guess that's the limit without using the environment around you? So diamond and fullerene requires a temperature of 3926.85C to melt into a liquid but that's far beyond the point of any machine overheat point. The closest would be a Thermium Oil Well, which can sustain temperatures of 2900C before needing repair.
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Aug 28, 2019 00:03
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Are you cooling the hydrogen for some specific reason, or is it just like, filling the wheezwort chamber with hydrogen because they remove more heat from hydrogen than oxygen? I understand the radiator pattern for cooling the oxygen across the wheezeworts, but does the weaving pattern of the hydrogen pipes before they hit the generators do anything for you? I'm storing surplus hydrogen in the pipe to the generators, so if I ever gently caress up and cut the water line it has a couple cycles of backup prvodied. Also if you follow the bridge pattern all hydrogen that isn't stored in that line is taken out and sent to my drecko farm to top that off, and then into the big loop in the bottom which carries it to my main storage. If I don't store some in the line like that, it will often starve itself in the gaps of production, especially when the whole system is saturated like in that screenshot and the electrolyzers only turn on like half of the time they would in full production mode. Bridges dictate flow priority in a T junction like that, so any time you see a bridge doing that it's because I'm controlling flow priority. Alternatively, a T junction bridge where the green end is the connect point gives it the opposite priority; the flow will stop at the bridge until the main line you're adding to is clear. You can have lots of sources feed a main line this way, and it'll prioritize itself. This loving mess of a screenshot has pretty much every common use for a bridge in it, barring the things like the mechanical filter idea. 
Mazz fucked around with this message at 00:11 on Aug 28, 2019 |
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Aug 28, 2019 00:04
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Hamelekim posted:Don't you needed refined metals for radiated pipes? For liquids but oddly, not for radiating gas pipes! But use refined metals there anyway unless you just really don't give a poo poo/don't have a lot.
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Aug 28, 2019 00:07
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The thing is, you really don't need radiant pipes in any situations unless you want temperature to change extremely rapidly in a small section of pipe. Like the 4 tiles behind a AETN or something. Otherwise simple granite piping has a high enough temperature gradient that it'll even out to the background temperature pretty quickly. My electrolyzer above is all just granite pipe and the oxygen leaves between 25-27C from 42C in only 16 or so pipe tiles of length.
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Aug 28, 2019 00:10
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Sage Grimm posted:So diamond and fullerene requires a temperature of 3926.85C to melt into a liquid but that's far beyond the point of any machine overheat point. The closest would be a Thermium Oil Well, which can sustain temperatures of 2900C before needing repair. I have this odd compulsion to liquefy just about everything and pump it to where I need it in the base, then cool to use it. So liquefy O2 to send across the map to other locations and so on. One of these days I will get around to it.
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Aug 28, 2019 00:10
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Mazz posted:The thing is, you really don't need radiant pipes in any situations unless you want temperature to change extremely rapidly in a small section of pipe. Like the 4 tiles behind a AETN or something. Otherwise simple granite piping has a high enough temperature gradient that it'll even out to the background temperature pretty quickly. My electrolyzer above is all just granite pipe and the oxygen leaves between 25-27C from 42C in only 16 or so pipe tiles of length. what I use it for, and maybe this is dumb, bit mainly for things like moving the heat between a cool steam vent tank and a cool slush geyser tank, because you need cool clean water and warm pisswater.
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Aug 28, 2019 00:13
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Another strange thing is that your dupes are really good at differentiating between polluted water and not polluted water, but can't just filter germy water in the same way. So I can leave polluted water out wherever and it's fine, but god forbid some food poisoning gets in one or the other, because there's no way for me to tell dupes to put germy water in a different bottle emptier. It's not the end of the world and I can use germ sensors to detect and filter it myself but it seems like a weird gap. Like they give the water the sniff test first but can't drop some iodine in there???
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Aug 28, 2019 00:17
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Flesh Forge posted:what I use it for, and maybe this is dumb, bit mainly for things like moving the heat between a cool steam vent tank and a cool slush geyser tank, because you need cool clean water and warm pisswater. It works fine for that, don't get me wrong, just that you can generally use granite for the same purposes and you won't notice a drastic difference outside of stuff like trying to boil petroleum. Granite piping has a thermal conductivity of 3.390, gold amalgam radiant pipe has a TC of 4.0. The difference for refined metals is a lot bigger but in practice there aren’t s ton of places that giant TC swing is actually necessary. Basically I'm not say to not use radiant pipe, just that you can use granite if you have a ton of that and you won't really notice a difference outside of the extremes. EDIT: For perspective hydrogen, the best temp transfer gas, has a TC of 0.168 Mazz fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Aug 28, 2019 |
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Aug 28, 2019 00:18
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aluminum radiating pipe has a thermal conductivity of 410 though e: huh, gas radiating pipes are just weird I guess, you can ONLY use metal ores and not refined metals except for tungsten/thermium/steel Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 00:40 on Aug 28, 2019 |
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Aug 28, 2019 00:37
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Flesh Forge posted:aluminum radiating pipe has a thermal conductivity of 410 though Yeah I forgot that refiner metals jump up a lot so I edited my post, but AFAIK the temperature change is still clamped to the lowest TC involved so it’s questionable how much value you even get out of that giant TC jump. Also specific heat capacity and total heat capacity are also both very relevant. Basically if you absolutely want heat to exchange in a small space go with refined radiant, otherwise the gap between granite and metal ore radiant isn’t large enough to the point you’ll really notice assuming a reasonable length of radiator piping.
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Aug 28, 2019 00:42
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Hamelekim posted:What is the hottest temperature you can make in the game? I know that I have 1500C temps with lava and the surrounding rocks. There is one metal that has a 999C failure point, so I guess that's the limit without using the environment around you? You can do well above 999C. Even just a spacemetal aquatuner hits 1025C.
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Aug 28, 2019 01:35
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Don't radiating pipes have some weird thing where they can achieve much higher thermal transfer rates than normal proximity can?
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Aug 28, 2019 01:39
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I make everything out of dirt and gravel because I'm a cave person and far too dumb to even look at this game. lmao.
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Aug 28, 2019 01:41
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Well, it's like a mile of poorly optimized p-water piping, but my ATEN-powered cooling loop works. My farms and living areas have already dropped a degree or two. Now to finish a second loop so I'm not dumping hot desal into my cistern to begin with. My poor 5-Wheezeworts-in-a-box first attempt was not quite powerful enough.
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Aug 28, 2019 01:51
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OwlFancier posted:Don't radiating pipes have some weird thing where they can achieve much higher thermal transfer rates than normal proximity can? It doubles the thermal conductivity of the material versus normal pipe. This is huge for refined metal liquid pipes because they are already very conductive to begin with. And due to using a different formula it applies the average value between the pipe and its contents.
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Aug 28, 2019 01:55
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Sage Grimm posted:It doubles the thermal conductivity of the material versus normal pipe. This is huge for refined metal liquid pipes because they are already very conductive to begin with. And due to using a different formula it applies the average value between the pipe and its contents. Yeah, the different formula aspect is huge for both radiant and regular pipes. They are the only cases I know of that use average instead of lowest thermal conductivity. Only applies to the contents of the pipe and the pipe itself though, not the pipe and the outside world. They might benefit from the building formula in that case though, which is also better. On the topic of the highest temperature you can achieve outside of sandbox: if you can build a kiln out of it, you can melt it. Kilns have no overheat temperature and when placed in a vacuum go all the way to melting. If you take the liquid from that and use pump tricks to get it into pipes you can send that into a metal refinery and heat it until it becomes a gas, at which point the metal refinery is toast. Doing this with niobium can get you some gaseous niobium at a temperature higher than 4743C. Smiling Demon fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Aug 28, 2019 |
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Aug 28, 2019 02:25
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Sage Grimm posted:It doubles the thermal conductivity of the material versus normal pipe. This is huge for refined metal liquid pipes because they are already very conductive to begin with. And due to using a different formula it applies the average value between the pipe and its contents. The averaging is what I was thinking of because yeah that would presumably massively increase thermal transfer rate due to the absurdly high conductivity of refined metals. A radiant gas and liquid pipe overlapping would presumably have immense transfer rates.
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Aug 28, 2019 02:52
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On that topic what happens when you lay both radiant gas and radiant liquid pipes on the same heat exchange paths? I've only happened to do that one time and tbh it felt like it double dipped/was more effective than it should be but I'm terrible at eyeballing that sort of thing
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Aug 28, 2019 03:07
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