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spectralent posted:Basically it's South Park's fault.
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Aug 27, 2019 20:25
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spectralent posted:Basically it's South Park's fault. And we're back to the great man history model.
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Aug 27, 2019 20:41
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I'd like to propose my Mediocre Men Theory of history and how they affect change for the worse.
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Aug 27, 2019 20:44
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moths posted:I'd like to propose my Mediocre Men Theory of history and how they affect change for the worse. I don´t quite remember where it was from, but I do remember reading a historical theory about how everything is getting worse constantly, and only societal pressure upon the ill elements is keeping the decay from collapsing the system, but the strain to do so to the individual is increasing every time, until at one point or another, the system inevitably collapses. By that idea, we´ll continue to see lovely behaviour until the pushback has become itself lovely behaviour and everything will regress. Damnit, where the f**** did I read this?...
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Aug 27, 2019 21:56
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Thranguy posted:And we're back to the great man history model. It is very likely there would have been some gross manbaby cartoon character; but there was no fundamental need for it to be Cartman. Anyway, nothing in particular will stop the bad-faith actors from acting in bad faith, other than defeat. I would say one way you could deal with it is to have some kind of metric on how much bandwidth, so to speak, you should give to them in the rhetorical space. (i.e. if you are spending more than X% of your time thinking about the chud response to a certain course of action, probably do less of that.)
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Aug 28, 2019 01:56
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I'm with Nessus, I suspect negating the existence of South Park wouldn't have prevented "U Mad Bro" from coming into being as the death knell of compassion and intellectual honesty it is. There were a lot of actors moving in the same direction with a similar message in that particular time period, one of them would probably have stepped in to fill the gap for petulent entitled shitheads.
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Aug 28, 2019 04:25
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South Park once had more cultural cachet than maybe any other show on the entire planet. For about a year you couldn't walk past any knick knack shop without seeing knockoff South Park merch. Obviously that popularity faded but I think saying anyone with a platform that massive had a hand in shaping the culture isn't so much the great man theory of history as understanding the power of mass media to influence politics.
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Aug 28, 2019 06:19
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Lurdiak posted:South Park once had more cultural cachet than maybe any other show on the entire planet. For about a year you couldn't walk past any knick knack shop without seeing knockoff South Park merch. Obviously that popularity faded but I think saying anyone with a platform that massive had a hand in shaping the culture isn't so much the great man theory of history as understanding the power of mass media to influence politics. I’m not entirely blaming it on them, but you can pretty much laser pinpoint the rise of “ironic” verbal racism to the first few seasons of South Park, especially anti Semitic jokes.
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Aug 28, 2019 06:29
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ExiledTinkerer posted:Loomis passing is still just such a cringe for posterity considering all he pulled off even if he managed to hang in there a fair while---exactly how many of the formative pioneers are even left at this point? A dozen or so tops? There might be a dozen people left who played proto-D&D with Gygax or Arneson.
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Aug 28, 2019 06:37
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:I’m not entirely blaming it on them, but you can pretty much laser pinpoint the rise of “ironic” verbal racism to the first few seasons of South Park, especially anti Semitic jokes. It was pretty drat fun being Jewish at that time, let me tell you. Had to slap a few friends, fortunately most of them came around.
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Aug 28, 2019 07:32
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:I’m not entirely blaming it on them, but you can pretty much laser pinpoint the rise of “ironic” verbal racism to the first few seasons of South Park, especially anti Semitic jokes. They literally imported bullying gingers into the US, that wasn't even a specific thing here when I was a kid and then South Park does an episode and suddenly kids are identifying that as something to bully each other with.
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Aug 28, 2019 11:14
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ExiledTinkerer posted:Loomis passing is still just such a cringe for posterity considering all he pulled off even if he managed to hang in there a fair while---exactly how many of the formative pioneers are even left at this point? A dozen or so tops? I’m on the road so just heard about it. Sucks, but if you have cancer and go to the ICU it rarely has a positive outcome.
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Aug 28, 2019 12:54
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Bruceski posted:It was pretty drat fun being Jewish at that time, let me tell you. Had to slap a few friends, fortunately most of them came around. Yeah, I grew up in a small rural town with literally zero Jews: antisemetism wasn’t even a thing, not because people weren’t bigots, but because it was so far off everyone’s radar that it didn’t come up. And then a couple of years after South Park, all the little teenage shitheads were “don’t be a Jew” this and that.
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Aug 28, 2019 19:29
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:I’m not entirely blaming it on them, but you can pretty much laser pinpoint the rise of “ironic” verbal racism to the first few seasons of South Park, especially anti Semitic jokes. Actually, I would attribute this more to teenage boys being inherently lovely rather than South Park. Part of me is less thinking it's inherent shittiness and more of a general lack of appreciation or awareness of boundaries/limits, though - and that's not something that's new to the world since South Park was invented. Regardless - even though South Park existed, it never spread anti-semitic shittiness faster than the educational video "To Jew Is Not A Verb" that they showed us in 8th grade. Up until then, we didn't even know it was a derogatory slur (it's synonymous with 'to gyp' which tells you how European the term is). But once kids in my grade heard it, it entered the lexicon.
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Aug 28, 2019 19:42
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Old Kentucky Shark posted:Yeah, I grew up in a small rural town with literally zero Jews: antisemetism wasn’t even a thing, not because people weren’t bigots, but because it was so far off everyone’s radar that it didn’t come up. And then a couple of years after South Park, all the little teenage shitheads were “don’t be a Jew” this and that.
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Aug 28, 2019 19:46
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dwarf74 posted:I had the opposite experience. My class in the Chicago suburbs was probably 15-20% Jewish and I didn't even realize antisemitism was a thing until we studied nazis, and then I only thought it was a dead historical thing that stopped existing as of WW2. Yeah, the American history class basically made Nazis into a sort of mythical creature that once existed but now America got rid of all of them and they don't exist any more and antisemitism has been solved. I firmly believe that this greatly helped the current Nazis get to their current position in America. e: like, even my friends only started to understand why I had such an aversion to Nazi villains played for comedy in our RPG stuff in, like, the very end of the 2016 election cycle.
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Aug 28, 2019 20:01
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Mors Rattus posted:Yeah, the American history class basically made Nazis into a sort of mythical creature that once existed but now America got rid of all of them and they don't exist any more and antisemitism has been solved.
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Aug 28, 2019 20:16
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South Park didn't arise from nothing, but it also didn't speak to nothing. I think it's frankly weird to dilute the specific forms of its blatantly demonstrated bigotry that were absolutely mirrored by its audience as "well teenagers were going to do that anyway." Yes, some form of antisemitism is pretty much always popular, but I never heard "to Jew" nearly as much until South Park blew up, and I never heard about soulless gingers at all. South Park wasn't a singular cause of bigotry, but it definitely had a huge cultural impact, as much on "acceptable" and thus more widespread forms of bigotry and petulant nihilism as viewership numbers at Comedy Central.
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Aug 28, 2019 20:22
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LuiCypher posted:Actually, I would attribute this more to teenage boys being inherently lovely rather than South Park. Part of me is less thinking it's inherent shittiness and more of a general lack of appreciation or awareness of boundaries/limits, though - and that's not something that's new to the world since South Park was invented. Yeah, I deal with a lot of teenage boys and they're shitheads for the most part. South Park just gave (or gives) them something to use to be horrible to other people. Also there's a bit of anti-semetic comments in Family Guy too. Along with the other garbage in that show.
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Aug 28, 2019 20:45
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Rhandhali posted:I’m on the road so just heard about it. Sucks, but if you have cancer and go to the ICU it rarely has a positive outcome. Who's Loomis?
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Aug 28, 2019 22:51
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Arivia posted:Who's Loomis? Rick Loomis, one of the founders of Flying Buffalo Games, who publish Tunnels and Trolls. He's also the one who made Grimtooth's Traps, plus a bunch of other stuff.
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Aug 28, 2019 23:19
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senrath posted:Rick Loomis, one of the founders of Flying Buffalo Games, who publish Tunnels and Trolls. He's also the one who made Grimtooth's Traps, plus a bunch of other stuff. Oh, that's a shame. RIP dude. 
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Aug 28, 2019 23:26
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LuiCypher posted:Regardless - even though South Park existed, it never spread anti-semitic shittiness faster than the educational video "To Jew Is Not A Verb" that they showed us in 8th grade. Up until then, we didn't even know it was a derogatory slur (it's synonymous with 'to gyp' which tells you how European the term is). But once kids in my grade heard it, it entered the lexicon. I learned all my curse words in first grade, when classmates shared what their Sunday school had told them not to say. Mors Rattus posted:Yeah, the American history class basically made Nazis into a sort of mythical creature that once existed but now America got rid of all of them and they don't exist any more and antisemitism has been solved. The Great Depression happened, and it was very sad, and then poverty was Ended Forever. The Holocaust happened, and it was very sad, and then fascism was Ended Forever. The Civil Rights Movement happened, and it was very sad, and then racism was Ended Forever. I sometimes wonder how I would have seen the world differently if our high school history teachers weren't where they shoved the sports coaches and instead had people with something to say. I mean, Mr Montano was great and did a good job of showing these things as more than single-issue conflicts (I think all I learned from my other history teacher was various geography puns), but they'd still get wrapped up with a tidy bow at the end of the segment.
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Aug 29, 2019 01:04
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Bruceski posted:The Civil War happened, and it was very sad, and then slavery was Ended Forever. Pretty sure the only reason they teach it this way is that they WANT people to continue being fascists for the next generation of white people.
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Sep 2, 2019 09:34
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TheNamedSavior posted:Pretty sure the only reason they teach it this way is that they WANT people to continue being fascists for the next generation of white people. I think that affords a level of self-awareness and intent that the US as a culture has amply demonstrated it does not possess.
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Sep 2, 2019 11:07
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Dawgstar posted:Ah, the James Gunn Effect which did not exactly work out for ol' Crazy Mikey C as he had hoped. What happened here? I hadn't heard anything beyond 'James Gunn got fired'. Bruceski posted:I sometimes wonder how I would have seen the world differently if our high school history teachers weren't where they shoved the sports coaches and instead had people with something to say. I mean, Mr Montano was great and did a good job of showing these things as more than single-issue conflicts (I think all I learned from my other history teacher was various geography puns), but they'd still get wrapped up with a tidy bow at the end of the segment. My last year of High School got me a gym coach history teacher who basically was like "Okay so... I don't have any training in this, so let's learn together." and he was one of my favorite teachers.
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Sep 2, 2019 20:55
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Kchama posted:What happened here? I hadn't heard anything beyond 'James Gunn got fired'. He got rehired. That's about all there is to it, because no one besides the right-wing trying to make a scapegoat out of him gave a poo poo in the first place.
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Sep 2, 2019 21:02
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It also underscored that maybe, just maybe these guys aren't actually all into free speech. Not that it mattered, since it's obvious to everyone.
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Sep 2, 2019 22:13
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Arivia posted:He got rehired. That's about all there is to it, because no one besides the right-wing trying to make a scapegoat out of him gave a poo poo in the first place. Not only did Gunn get rehired to work for Marvel, he also got to direct a big budget picture for DC with Suicide Squad. And was probably never really let go in the first place. So he got, like, double hired.
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Sep 3, 2019 02:47
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Dawgstar posted:Not only did Gunn get rehired to work for Marvel, he also got to direct a big budget picture for DC with Suicide Squad. And was probably never really let go in the first place. So he got, like, double hired. Specifically the upcoming Suicide Squad, not the one that came out only a couple years ago. The next Suicide Squad might be good!
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Sep 3, 2019 05:58
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Kurieg posted:
it loving funded
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Sep 4, 2019 19:29
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loving gently caress
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Sep 4, 2019 19:32
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Was there ever a question? The grift goes on.
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Sep 4, 2019 20:18
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Trojan Kaiju posted:Specifically the upcoming Suicide Squad, not the one that came out only a couple years ago. Yeah, The Suicide Squad, not Suicide Squad. I'm not holding my breath.
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Sep 4, 2019 20:46
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S.D. posted:it loving funded Of course it did. There are many Matt McFarlands out there who need to convince themselves they are not as bad as Matt McFarland, even Matt McFarland.
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Sep 4, 2019 22:42
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 IF ANY DEV GOONS HAVE ANY SHITE STORED AT KRAKEN PRINT, GET THAT SHITE RIGHT loving NOW, AS THEIR LEASE ISN'T PAID AND THEY WILL SELL YOUR CRAP IF YOU DON'T CLAIM IT! https://twitter.com/Iron_Spike/status/1169454959684968449
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Sep 5, 2019 21:20
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So my shite is safe, but my crap is in danger?
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Sep 10, 2019 10:03
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So to make a long story short Pathfinder Organized Play was amply aware Bill Web was an issue and decided to continue supporting a convention. This culminated with one of Bill Webb's employees at the convention whining about how it's unfair the treatment Zak got you know for raping someone. And the scary part is that this means that Bill Webb is potentially being babysat by a guy who still supports Zak. Edit: Also, said employee supports a neo Nazi. MadScientistWorking fucked around with this message at 13:01 on Sep 11, 2019 |
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Sep 11, 2019 12:50
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MadScientistWorking posted:So to make a long story short Pathfinder Organized Play was amply aware Bill Web was an issue and decided to continue supporting a convention. This culminated with one of Bill Webb's employees at the convention whining about how it's unfair the treatment Zak got you know for raping someone. And the scary part is that this means that Bill Webb is potentially being babysat by a guy who still supports Zak. Got any links on this?
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Sep 11, 2019 14:08
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Toshimo posted:Got any links on this? And their are so many unanswered questions. People wondered if Paizo didn't like the situation and refused to send a guest. And their there are other harassment issues at play which supposedly Paizo investigated but I doubt it. And just as an addendum I am only doing this because I care about this part of the community. I'll post the neonazi stuff later because I'm not at a computer but the Nazi stuff is Macris
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Sep 12, 2019 12:20
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