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Ebola Roulette
Sep 13, 2010

No matter what you win lose ragepiss.

Inept posted:

I just got a new car and had to put 95% of my savings down on it and also had to take on a really high APR



https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/cwl7j4/i_just_got_a_new_car_and_had_to_put_95_of_my/

How bad does your credit have to be to end up with 25% on a secured loan?

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colachute
Mar 15, 2015

John Smith posted:



While I agree with you, this isn't exactly a rebuttal to my point that people do earn success through their own merit, and you liberals just don't like it.

I think agreeing that you’re getting more racist is bannable, no?

I guess I kind of admire that you don’t hide from being a racist piece of poo poo.

Hieronymous Alloy
Jan 30, 2009


Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!




Morbid Hound

John Smith posted:

Disagree. Plenty of people made it due to their own virtue, rather than privilege (unless you define privilege as almost all-encompassing).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9GjqdP6KSOE

Photex
Apr 6, 2009




Ebola Roulette posted:

How bad does your credit have to be to end up with 25% on a secured loan?

Probably no credit history at all

Super-NintendoUser
Jan 16, 2004

COWABUNGERDER COMPADRES
Soiled Meat

Photex posted:

Probably no credit history at all

Or he didn't even ask and got taken advantage of by a dealer? Do parents even attempt to teach their kids fiscal literacy?

Ghostnuke
Sep 21, 2005

Throw this in a pot, add some broth, a potato? Baby you got a stew going!


YOU LIBERALS

Guest2553
Aug 3, 2012


I hope john smith doesn't run into traffic and end up as a pulpy hood ornament, the liberal hive mind agrees that liberals everywhere would be SUPER OWNED.

e. vvvv
tell me I'm wrong

Guest2553 fucked around with this message at 00:13 on Aug 30, 2019

Enchanted Hat
Aug 18, 2013

Defeated in Diplomacy under suspicious circumstances

Guest2553 posted:

I hope john smith doesn't run into traffic and end up as a pulpy hood ornament, the liberal hive mind agrees that liberals everywhere would be SUPER OWNED.

Jesus, dude

howdoesishotweb
Nov 21, 2002

Jerk McJerkface posted:

Or he didn't even ask and got taken advantage of by a dealer? Do parents even attempt to teach their kids fiscal literacy?

Most parents suck at their own finances, let alone teaching their kids.

For the nth time can we ban JS from this thread? Never posts BWM, never has funny or interesting commentary, baiting derails. No one cares about his n=1 self-fellating story.

KingSlime
Mar 20, 2007
Wake up with the Kin-OH GOD WHAT IS THAT?!
I dunno this last bout of JS just made me feel bad for the guy. His posts reflect self esteem issues, a dissonance with how he believes others perceive him vs how he is actually perceived, etc

Hey JS if you're so bad rear end just go be a bad rear end wherever you do your thing, stop caring so much about what people here think. Every few months you come back to tell us how lovely we LIBERALS in this specific thread (lol) all are and how cool you are.

Idk man that can't be good for you and there's plenty of jerks online who would +1 your lovely attempt at discourse so I guess I just don't get it

Hoodwinker
Nov 7, 2005

Confidence is quiet.

Krispy Wafer
Jul 26, 2002

I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat

Grimey Drawer
Shame is pretty drat quiet too.

Moneyball
Jul 11, 2005

It's a problem you think we need to explain ourselves.

KingSlime posted:

I dunno this last bout of JS just made me feel bad for the guy. His posts reflect self esteem issues, a dissonance with how he believes others perceive him vs how he is actually perceived, etc

Hey JS if you're so bad rear end just go be a bad rear end wherever you do your thing, stop caring so much about what people here think. Every few months you come back to tell us how lovely we LIBERALS in this specific thread (lol) all are and how cool you are.

Idk man that can't be good for you and there's plenty of jerks online who would +1 your lovely attempt at discourse so I guess I just don't get it

Hey don't lump us all together :v:

KingSlime
Mar 20, 2007
Wake up with the Kin-OH GOD WHAT IS THAT?!
Yeah I wouldn't exactly call this entire subforum a bastion for liberals but I guess it might seem that way to those with radicalized/extreme political views! I think he should try out reddit tbh

BonerGhost
Mar 9, 2007

My empathy for other people pretty much ends at the point where they intentionally act like cocks to other people for no good reason, especially when they're elitist loving assholes.

Call it a personal failing

Nocheez
Sep 5, 2000

Can you spare a little cheddar?
Nap Ghost

KingSlime posted:

Yeah I wouldn't exactly call this entire subforum a bastion for liberals but I guess it might seem that way to those with radicalized/extreme political views! I think he should try out reddit tbh

Most of us are miserly enough to tell organized religion to gently caress off and give ourselves an immediate 10% raise and a much better home life schedule.

Krispy Wafer
Jul 26, 2002

I shouted out "Free the exposed 67"
But they stood on my hair and told me I was fat

Grimey Drawer

KingSlime posted:

Yeah I wouldn't exactly call this entire subforum a bastion for liberals but I guess it might seem that way to those with radicalized/extreme political views! I think he should try out reddit tbh

This forum is the most conservative part of SA on this side of TFR and it still advocates guillotines for anyone making over $100k a year.

Whenever I go to another corner of the internet I’m amazed at how Chuddy it is. John Smith probably chooses us over Reddit because he feels like an individual here and not just another in an endless line of Chuds making the same loving joke about global warming over and over again.

TraderStav
May 19, 2006

It feels like I was standing my entire life and I just sat down

Krispy Wafer posted:

This forum is the most conservative part of SA on this side of TFR and it still advocates guillotines for anyone making over $100k a year.

Whenever I go to another corner of the internet I’m amazed at how Chuddy it is. John Smith probably chooses us over Reddit because he feels like an individual here and not just another in an endless line of Chuds making the same loving joke about global warming over and over again.

Hell, I'm willing to bet that more than half of the folks calling for guillotines make over $100k/yr.

Antioch
Apr 18, 2003

TraderStav posted:

Hell, I'm willing to bet that more than half of the folks calling for guillotines make over $100k/yr.

It's true but my $100k is in CAD so it doesn't count.

untzthatshit
Oct 27, 2007

Snit Snitford

I've been following this little hometown hero's BWM saga for a while now and it looks like the SEC is finally coming after him. "Self generating money machine" is a lot like a perpetual motion device, as smart as you think you are you're probably not the genius that's finally figured it out.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

KingSlime posted:

Yeah I wouldn't exactly call this entire subforum a bastion for liberals but I guess it might seem that way to those with radicalized/extreme political views! I think he should try out reddit tbh
After the landlord thread shenanigans, I don't think you can really say that this subforum is the "YOU LIBERALS" of the internet world.

Dik Hz
Feb 22, 2004

Fun with Science

crazypeltast52 posted:

Trump, the guy who could have ridden his father’s real estate portfolio to an 11 digit net worth over a decades long bull market in NYC real estate, but decided golf courses, casinos and airlines were the way to do it.
Saying someone is a better businessman than Trump is like saying someone is a better at the high jump than Stephen Hawking. But, my take on Romney was that he was the face for the shadow money. Did he actually do the deals himself? Or did he stick his money behind his Ivy League croneys?

Overdrift
Jul 17, 2006

This is Fatherman! He fights crime to earn Sonboy's respect! Is it working?

untzthatshit posted:

I've been following this little hometown hero's BWM saga for a while now and it looks like the SEC is finally coming after him. "Self generating money machine" is a lot like a perpetual motion device, as smart as you think you are you're probably not the genius that's finally figured it out.

What would be the fallout for people who got mortgages through this company? Are they hosed or does it just change the person they're mailing their mortgage payments to?

Volmarias
Dec 31, 2002

EMAIL... THE INTERNET... SEARCH ENGINES...
.

captkirk
Feb 5, 2010
Possibly BWM, almost definitely BWMcMansion, this youtuber bought a massive half finished McMansion and is trying to rebuild it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ8sG3bn2LM&list=PL27qdrz8RArUI_5ypLJESeJwQWk9eOnex

The most recent video confirmed how McMansion-y the place is with stuff like "windows pointed at walls" and pointless roof ornamentation. It does seem like they're hiring some folks to help them make decent decisions.

SpelledBackwards
Jan 7, 2001

I found this image on the Internet, perhaps you've heard of it? It's been around for a while I hear.

Nocheez posted:

Most of us are miserly enough to tell organized religion to gently caress off and give ourselves an immediate 10% raise and a much better home life schedule.

Try again, IDIOT LIBERAL! (Going from 90% to 100% is an ~11.1% raise, not a 10% raise)

DaveSauce
Feb 15, 2004

Oh, how awkward.

Dik Hz posted:

After the landlord thread shenanigans, I don't think you can really say that this subforum is the "YOU LIBERALS" of the internet world.

It's quite possible to be both liberal and GWM.

Raldikuk
Apr 7, 2006

I'm bad with money and I want that meatball!

untzthatshit posted:

I've been following this little hometown hero's BWM saga for a while now and it looks like the SEC is finally coming after him. "Self generating money machine" is a lot like a perpetual motion device, as smart as you think you are you're probably not the genius that's finally figured it out.

Suite 420? Nice

John Smith
Feb 26, 2015

by LITERALLY AN ADMIN

KingSlime posted:

Hey JS if you're so bad rear end just go be a bad rear end wherever you do your thing, stop caring so much about what people here think. Every few months you come back to tell us how lovely we LIBERALS in this specific thread (lol) all are and how cool you are.
I am not bad rear end at all. My success is very moderate, certainly not noteworthy. I am very boring and (culturally / behaviourally) very conservative, certainly not cool at all.

My point is simply that people here are lying to themselves. They don't merely dislike success not earned through merit. They simply dislike all success, and consider privilege as being all-encompassing.



KingSlime posted:

Idk man that can't be good for you and there's plenty of jerks online who would +1 your lovely attempt at discourse so I guess I just don't get it
I agree that constantly engaging a deeply hostile platform may not be very healthy. But there aren't many popular platforms that are friendly towards far far-right interests, so my options are more constrained than yours. Do you have any constructive recommendations?



KingSlime posted:

Yeah I wouldn't exactly call this entire subforum a bastion for liberals but I guess it might seem that way to those with radicalized/extreme political views! I think he should try out reddit tbh
Er... let's be real. SA is very liberal, but BFC is still nonetheless liberal (just less so than the rest of SA). And yes, this is even more glaring from a far far-right perspective. But Reddit's structure seems rather awkward to me.



Nocheez posted:

Most of us are miserly enough to tell organized religion to gently caress off and give ourselves an immediate 10% raise and a much better home life schedule.
As a rationalist, I am therefore a hardcore atheist.

OctaviusBeaver
Apr 30, 2009

Say what now?

Dik Hz posted:

Saying someone is a better businessman than Trump is like saying someone is a better at the high jump than Stephen Hawking. But, my take on Romney was that he was the face for the shadow money. Did he actually do the deals himself? Or did he stick his money behind his Ivy League croneys?

Picking competent subordinates and listening to their advice is probably the second most important quality in a president. The most important quality is being tall.

Weatherman
Jul 30, 2003

WARBLEKLONK
:siren: John Smith is in the top 20-odd ignored users sitewide for a reason :siren:

Nocheez
Sep 5, 2000

Can you spare a little cheddar?
Nap Ghost
My ignore list has got to be over 2/3s banned users as this point.

PurpleXVI
Oct 30, 2011

Spewing insults, pissing off all your neighbors, betraying your allies, backing out of treaties and accords, and generally screwing over the global environment?
ALL PART OF MY BRILLIANT STRATEGY!

John Smith posted:

My point is simply that people here are lying to themselves. They don't merely dislike success not earned through merit. They simply dislike all success, and consider privilege as being all-encompassing.

Here's the thing, even if you've succeeded without having won the lottery, defrauding someone or getting a massive inheritance... you still didn't succeed on your own. You built whatever you built on the backs of competent workers, middle managers and designers, in most countries on the backs of an entire nation's worth of investment in infrastructure, education and often healthcare. Refusing to pay it forward on the insistence that "I DID THIS ALL ON MY OWN, I GOT NO HANDOUTS" is being a selfish bag of cocks.

No one here dislikes someone just for being rich, they dislike the rich because in general once someone has a seven-digit net worth, they suddenly start thinking: "gently caress you, got mine." and sabotaging anyone else's chances at happiness and success while fortifying their own gains, usually with the shittiest insistences that "I DID IT ALL ON MY OWN, I DON'T OWE ANYONE ANYTHING." gently caress you, buddy. You like having literate employees? Does your business rely on it? Good, then you owe the educational system a hell of a lot. You like not having half your employees and customers die from smallpox? Whoops, you owe the healthcare system. You like being able to move shipments and have employees arrive at work? Whoops, you owe the nice folks who built the roads and any public transport infrastructure.

So pay your loving taxes and stop trying to get them lowered, rear end in a top hat, you already have more than enough to last you a lifetime.

I guess it's me, I'm the BWM because I'm wasting time replying to John Smith, and time is money.

ltugo
Aug 10, 2004

If there was a grading scale for torture I would give sleep deprivation and waterboarding a C-.

captkirk posted:

Possibly BWM, almost definitely BWMcMansion, this youtuber bought a massive half finished McMansion and is trying to rebuild it


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZ8sG3bn2LM&list=PL27qdrz8RArUI_5ypLJESeJwQWk9eOnex

The most recent video confirmed how McMansion-y the place is with stuff like "windows pointed at walls" and pointless roof ornamentation. It does seem like they're hiring some folks to help them make decent decisions.

Isn't that the guy who runs Demolition Ranch? He should probably stick to shooting watermelons.

Shut up Meg
Jan 8, 2019

You're safe here.

ltugo posted:

Isn't that the guy who runs Demolition Ranch? He should probably stick to shooting watermelons.

Yeah that's him.

It's an oddity about YT that you can earn more from doing a project badly than you can by doing it competently. So is is actually GWM to take on a stupid, money pit project if you are completely willing to sell out to sponsors - which this guy has done completely.

DarkHorse
Dec 13, 2006

Vroom vroom, BEEP BEEP!
Nap Ghost
BWMedicine:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2019/08/29/753506549/bill-of-the-month-estimate-for-cost-of-hernia-surgery-misses-the-mark

quote:

Bill Of The Month: Estimate For Cost Of Hernia Surgery Misses The Mark

August 29, 201912:07 PM ET
Heard on All Things Considered
RACHEL BLUTH

Before scheduling his hernia surgery, Wolfgang Balzer called the hospital, the surgeon and the anesthesiologist to get estimates for how much the procedure would cost. But when his bill came, the estimates he had obtained were wildly off.

Balzer, an engineer, knew for several years he had a hernia that would need to be repaired, but it wasn't an emergency, so he waited until the time was right.

The opportunity came in 2018 after his wife, Farren, had given birth to their second child in February. The couple had met their deductible early in the year and figured that would minimize out-of-pocket payments for Wolfgang's surgery.

Before scheduling it, he called the hospital, the surgeon and the anesthesiologist to get estimates for how much the procedure would cost.

"We tried our best to weigh out our plan and figure out what the numbers were," Wolfgang said.

The hospital told him the normal billed rate was $10,333.16, but that Cigna, his insurer, had negotiated a discount to $6,995.56, meaning his 20% patient share would be $1,399.11. The surgeon's office quoted a normal rate of $1,675, but the Cigna discounted rate was just $469, meaning his copayment would be about $94. (Although the Balzers made four calls to the anesthesiologist's office to get a quote, leaving messages on the answering machine, no one returned their calls.)

Estimates in hand, they budgeted for the money they would have to pay. Wolfgang proceeded with the surgery in November, and, medically, it went according to plan.

Then the bill came.

Total bill: All the estimates the Balzers had painstakingly obtained were wildly off. The hospital's bill was $16,314. After the insurer's contracting discount was applied, the bill fell to $10,552, still 51% over the initial estimate. The contracted rate for the surgeon's fee was $968, more than double the estimate. After Cigna's payments, the Balzers were billed $2,304.51, much more than they'd budgeted for.

Service provider: Hartford Hospital, operated by Hartford HealthCare

Medical procedure: Bilateral inguinal hernia repair

What gives: "This is ending up costing us $800 more," said Farren, 36. "For two working people with two children and full-time day care, that's a huge hit."

When the bill came on Christmas Eve 2018, the Balzers called around, trying to figure out what went wrong with the initial estimate, only to get bounced from the hospital's billing office to patient accounts and finally ending up speaking with the hospital's "Integrity Department."

They were told "a quote is only a quote and doesn't take into consideration complications." The Balzers pointed out there had been no complications in the outpatient procedure; Wolfgang went home the same day, a few hours after he woke up.

The couple appealed the bill. They called their insurer. They waited for collection notices to roll in.


Hospital estimates are often inaccurate and there is no legal obligation that they be correct, or even be issued in good faith. It's not so in other industries. When you take out a mortgage, for instance, the lender's estimate of origination charges has to be accurate by law; even closing fees — incurred months later — cannot exceed the initial estimate by more than 10%. In construction or home remodeling, while estimates are not legal contracts, failure to live up to them can be a basis for liability or a "claim for negligent misrepresentation."

In this case, Hartford Hospital produced an estimate for Balzer's laparoscopic hernia repair, CPT (current procedural terminology) code 49650.

The hospital ran the code through a computer program that produced an average of what others have paid in the past. Cynthia Pugliese, Hartford Health's vice president of revenue cycle, said the hospital uses averages because more complicated cases may require additional supplies or services, which would add costs.

"Because it was new, perhaps the system doesn't have enough cases to provide an accurate estimate," Pugliese says. "We did not communicate effectively to him related to his estimate. It's not our norm. We look at this experience and this event to learn from this."

Efforts to make health care prices more transparent have not managed to bring down bills because the different charges and prices given are so often inscrutable or unreliable, says Dr. Ateev Mehrotra, an associate professor of health care policy and medicine at Harvard Medical School.

"The charges on there don't make any sense. All it does is, people get pissed off," Mehrotra said. "The charge has no link to reality, so it doesn't matter."

Resolution: "Because I roll over more easily than my wife does, I'm of the mindset to pay it and get done with it," Wolfgang said. "My wife says absolutely not."

Investigating prices, dealing with billing departments and following up with their insurer was draining for the Balzers.

"I've been tackling this since December," Wolfgang says. "I've lost two or three days in terms of time."

For the Balzers, there's a happy ending. After a reporter made inquiries about the discrepancy between the estimate and the billed charges — six months after they got their first bill — Pugliese told them to forget it. Their bill would be an "administrative write-off," they were told.

"They repeatedly apologized and ended up promising to adjust our bill to zero dollars," Wolfgang wrote in an email.

The takeaway: It is a good idea to get an estimate in advance for health care, if your condition is not an emergency. But it is important to know that an estimate can be way off — and your provider probably is not legally required to honor it.

Try to request an estimate that is "all-in" — including the entire set of services associated with your procedure or admission. If it's not all-inclusive, the hospital should make clear which services are not being counted.

Having an estimate means you can make an argument with your provider and insurer that you shouldn't be charged more than you expected. It could work.

Laws requiring at least a level of accuracy in medical estimates would help. In a number of other countries, patients are entitled to accurate estimates if they are paying out-of-pocket.

Most patients aren't as proactive as the Balzers, and most wouldn't know that the hospital, surgeon and anesthesiologist would all bill separately. And most wouldn't fight a bill that they could afford to pay.

The Balzers say they wouldn't have changed their medical decision, even if they had been given the right estimate at the beginning. It's the principle they fought for here: "There's no other consumer industry where this would be tolerated," Farren wrote in an email

KYOON GRIFFEY JR
Apr 12, 2010



Runner-up, TRP Sack Race 2021/22
i bet im more successful than fellow azn sensazn john smith and somehow i managed to not turn in to a total loving dickhead so im pretty sure its a personal john smith problem and not like, a FORUMS HIVEMIND problem

Ebola Roulette
Sep 13, 2010

No matter what you win lose ragepiss.

How is this even legal. This is why capitalism and medicine don't mix. You can't "shop around" if estimates are lies and the actual costs are hidden and can be much higher.

Eric the Mauve
May 8, 2012

Making you happy for a buck since 199X
The forums hivemind problem is everyone loving constantly talking to and about him. If we all would just ignore him we wouldn't get 3 pointless pages every time he posts, jfc

e: ...poo poo

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untzthatshit
Oct 27, 2007

Snit Snitford

Overdrift posted:

What would be the fallout for people who got mortgages through this company? Are they hosed or does it just change the person they're mailing their mortgage payments to?

Well they were reverse mortgages, so I imagine that just means your payments from LiveWell dry up. And then maybe you're on the hook for whatever balance is outstanding on the loan? That would suck, if all those seniors borrowing against their equity thinking they'd die before the tab ever came suddenly got a six figure bill in the mail. For now its the banks that lent him money that are left holding the bag but I imagine they'll try to recoup as much of that loss as they can.

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