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I said come in! posted:You just described every episode on the show. Have you ever actually watched Babylon 5?
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Aug 23, 2019 18:07
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TraderStav posted:Okay. Does it help if I clarify it was the one where the commander confronts him 1:1 in a non-descript alleyway? Also, while the super monster can melt steel, the commander can take a direct shot and shrug it off to go hand-to-hand with him? It helps more if you say "the one with a head that looks like a penis". Nobody forgets that one.
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Aug 23, 2019 18:23
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It's "Infection", we all know it's "Infection".  Keep on keeping on. Considering "Purple" and "Infection" are often considered some of the weaker episodes of the season, I'm looking forward to when you hit the ones that people really like in Season One!
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Aug 23, 2019 19:01
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jng2058 posted:It's "Infection", we all know it's "Infection". If those are the weaker ones, then I'm looking forward to it! I sort of enjoyed those ones. Hoping to knock out more of the season this weekend. Wife has one of my kids out of town at a soccer tournament so may have some free time.
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Aug 23, 2019 19:42
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:I said come in! is teasing you a bit with something you don't have the context for yet. I am mostly teasing, yes :P Ancient race with ancient organic technology is a huge theme of the show. Basically never touch that stuff, it's bad times forever, as the show will point out up until the end. Jedit posted:It helps more if you say "the one with a head that looks like a penis". Nobody forgets that one. Correct, we never forget a penis around here.
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Aug 23, 2019 20:53
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On an unrelated note, thinking about those early episodes, something from The Parliament of Dreams: I really want my own statue of Li, Goddess of Passion. It'd be a cool piece of Babylon 5 art to have on a shelf.
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Aug 24, 2019 01:57
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Vavrek posted:On an unrelated note, thinking about those early episodes, something from The Parliament of Dreams: I really want my own statue of Li, Goddess of Passion. It'd be a cool piece of Babylon 5 art to have on a shelf. I'm also cute, but in purple... I'm stunning!
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Aug 24, 2019 03:12
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Someone tell me that they have a gif of the courier shooting j'kar (spelling?) in Parliament. That poo poo eating grin is PRICELESS. Definitely avatar worthy.
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Aug 24, 2019 03:28
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TraderStav posted:Someone tell me that they have a gif of the courier shooting j'kar (spelling?) in Parliament. That poo poo eating grin is PRICELESS. Definitely avatar worthy. G'kar (and I think the assassin guy's name is Tu'pari)
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Aug 24, 2019 10:36
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TraderStav posted:Someone tell me that they have a gif of the courier shooting j'kar (spelling?) in Parliament. That poo poo eating grin is PRICELESS. Definitely avatar worthy. https://babylon5.fandom.com/wiki/Tu%27Pari
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Aug 24, 2019 12:31
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Groetgaffel posted:Not a gif, but the picture at the top of the page is a still of said poo poo eating grin. Thanks! That was a good and fun episode.
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Aug 24, 2019 13:49
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Groetgaffel posted:Not a gif, but the picture at the top of the page is a still of said poo poo eating grin. For me the best detail was his spectacles  . And breaking them just to rub it all in.
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Aug 24, 2019 14:23
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So a few eps into the final season and have to say, I don’t like how Lochsley seems to be getting a pass for being a fascist. I understand from what I heard in some spoilers that she didn’t actively fight for Clarke and merely stayed neutral in the civil war, but the entire second episode of this season and, really, Mollari’s entire arc shows that the writers understand silence is violence and that refusing to take a stand against evil is tantamount to supporting it. “You said nothing.” Is rightly used to shame Mollari But from what I recall hearing in this thread, Lochsley never has to answer for being an enabler.
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Aug 27, 2019 08:17
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:So a few eps into the final season and have to say, I don’t like how Lochsley seems to be getting a pass for being a fascist. I understand from what I heard in some spoilers that she didn’t actively fight for Clarke and merely stayed neutral in the civil war, but the entire second episode of this season and, really, Mollari’s entire arc shows that the writers understand silence is violence and that refusing to take a stand against evil is tantamount to supporting it. They're between a rock and a hard place there. You can't really fault someone for loyalty to the chain of command then expect them to obey you because you're in charge now. What are they going to do - kick out 75% of Earthforce personnel? Also remember that much of Lochley's arc was written for Ivanova. She had to be shoehorned in late in the day and it does show sometimes.
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Aug 27, 2019 08:46
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:So a few eps into the final season and have to say, I don’t like how Lochsley seems to be getting a pass for being a fascist. I understand from what I heard in some spoilers that she didn’t actively fight for Clarke and merely stayed neutral in the civil war, but the entire second episode of this season and, really, Mollari’s entire arc shows that the writers understand silence is violence and that refusing to take a stand against evil is tantamount to supporting it. It's more complex than that. Mollari absolutely did more than just staying silent and played a direct role in the atrocities the Centauri committed via his alliance with the Shadows. His silence wasn't just keeping to his post and obeying the chain of command, but refusing to take responsibility and handle his guilt for directly instigating and benefiting. Throughout the series, Londo's usual refrain is 'I have no choice!' Which like, I believe Vir says, is just something people say when they've already made up their mind. Lochley is different. As best as we can tell, she didn't participate in any of Clarke's war crimes, didn't benefit, and didn't fight for or against Sheridan's fleet. Yes, that makes her something of a tacit supporter, but how're you going to punish her? How do you expect to maintain a military? The President in Season 4 points out that Sheridan did, no matter the moral ends of it, take up arms against his government, with the support of alien nations, and got lucky enough to win. B5 isn't very idealistic, there's a pretty heavy amount of realpolitik in it, and it's implied that the majority of Earthforce didn't like Clarke but also didn't really support Sheridan's insurrection - they were just glad that someone got rid of Clarke. Even President Luchenko only says he 'probably' did the right thing. I think some of the Omega-class warships in Season 4 that Sheridan gets to defect don't join his side but just basically go sit the war out. The other thing is as Jedit says. Lochley is supposed to be Ivanova and sometimes the cracks show through. However, I think you're right. I've always felt Lochley wasn't really interrogated enough about her perspective. The other issue is wider, though, that Sheridan's rebellion is pretty black and white. Freedom-loving good people who are Big drat Heroes versus a tyrannical fascist government that exults in mass murder and is buddying up with literal chaotic harbingers of the apocalypse. Like, did Lochley even know about the bombings on Mars and massacre at Proxima 3? If so, what did she think? What did she think when Clarke dissolved the Senate and raided ISN? What did she think about that crazy propaganda piece ISN did on Sheridan and co? They could've, and maybe should've, done a full season on the aftermath of the civil war alone. But I also think they didn't really know what to do with Lochley. She shows up in only ten episodes, and I'm pretty sure she's not exactly a major role in a lot of those.
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Aug 27, 2019 09:26
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:However, I think you're right. I've always felt Lochley wasn't really interrogated enough about her perspective. The other issue is wider, though, that Sheridan's rebellion is pretty black and white. Freedom-loving good people who are Big drat Heroes versus a tyrannical fascist government that exults in mass murder and is buddying up with literal chaotic harbingers of the apocalypse. Like, did Lochley even know about the bombings on Mars and massacre at Proxima 3? If so, what did she think? What did she think when Clarke dissolved the Senate and raided ISN? What did she think about that crazy propaganda piece ISN did on Sheridan and co? They could've, and maybe should've, done a full season on the aftermath of the civil war alone. I don't think a whole season about that stuff would've been necessary but it would've been a hell of a lot more interesting than Byron's telepath cult noise. I mean, everything you just said is basically post-WWII denazification, something that definitely doesn't get covered enough in history or pop culture and could've used a good old-fashioned scifi allegory.
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Aug 27, 2019 12:12
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It's been a while since I watched, but I remember the implication that Earthgov was uncomfortable about actually running a denazification scheme, so it was more of a post-civil war forgive and forget kinda deal. I remember during the Spanish American war they made a big deal about an old confederate general serving to prove bygones were bygones. And to be fair, I don't think they really developed much of an ideology for Clark and his fascists that would have to be eradicated beyond just consolidation of power and hanging out with evil aliens. Of course, a pro move would've been flash forward showing a contingent of humans romanticizing some loyal Earthgov officers and building statues of them in an attempt to rehabilitate the history.
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Aug 27, 2019 16:53
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RoboChrist 9000 posted:So a few eps into the final season and have to say, I don’t like how Lochsley seems to be getting a pass for being a fascist. I understand from what I heard in some spoilers that she didn’t actively fight for Clarke and merely stayed neutral in the civil war, but the entire second episode of this season and, really, Mollari’s entire arc shows that the writers understand silence is violence and that refusing to take a stand against evil is tantamount to supporting it. It's a very complex issue and one which the show clearly didn't intend to explore beyond a few spots in S4. General spoilers: there is no evidence that being an Earthforce officer during the events of S2-4 is the same as being a fascist. Setting aside all the EA forces who switched sides, the show very clearly doesn't condemn the members of the military who follow orders, only those who follow illegal orders. Painting everyone in a fascist country with the fascist brush oversimplifies. Suppose there's a police officer in a small town in Nazi Germany. He never personally arrests a Jew or a member of another group being sent to the camps, and he enforces the same laws that existed prior to the Nazi regime seizing power. But at the same time, by going after lawbreakers in his small town, he indirectly supports the Nazi regime and their actions. While it's true some people plotted to overthrow Hitler, and others did things to smuggle out or protect Jews (a la Abrahamo Linconi), still others remained effectively "neutral" even if their inaction contributed to events. If our hypothetical police officer provides information when requested to the SS, has he done unforgivable wrong? What if he does that but also allows a fugitive to escape once? How much heroism is required before you are no longer a fascist? Members of the Nazi party were definitely fascists. Londo is effectively number 2 in the party and has the power to halt things if he so chooses. Lochley was a soldier; there's no evidence she was a fascist, though she may have supported Clark. It is unclear how effectively Clark's people controlled the information available to members of Earthforce, and we don't know where she was serving. Those on independent starships presumably had the ability to pick up the Voice of the Resistance, while someone running a supply station near IO might not. We shouldn't equate a nurse working in a hospital in Nazi Germany with Mengele. Collusion, enabling, and support for a corrupt regime exist on a broad and complex spectrum. JMS should probably have done more but he only had Lochley for a restricted number of episodes and he had already mapped out a story-line involving Ivanova and the telepaths which he adapted instead of cutting. What we got was actually not bad (aside from the "I trust her because we were married" twist).
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Aug 27, 2019 18:44
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SlothfulCobra posted:It's been a while since I watched, but I remember the implication that Earthgov was uncomfortable about actually running a denazification scheme, so it was more of a post-civil war forgive and forget kinda deal. I remember during the Spanish American war they made a big deal about an old confederate general serving to prove bygones were bygones. From what I gather Clarke was - in one of the shows many disturbing bits of prescience - fairly like Trump. He was a man with no real ideology of his own who exploited the cryptofascism and racism of his base to amass power and exalt himself, since his only real goal was power and nursing xenophobia and stoking fascism were means not ends.
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Aug 27, 2019 18:46
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"Just following orders" and "I signed an oath to obey the legal government, who ever that might be" are absolutely not excuses and people using them to support fascism absolutely should have been run out of the military. Sometimes there's times for burying the hatchet, sometimes you need a good purge. "But but we need experienced officers!" is what got a ton of nazi's off the hook and back to work in post-war germany. gently caress centrist "neutral" loyalty to the state.
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Aug 27, 2019 19:12
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If the rest of Earthforce underwent anything like what happened on B5, they would have been kicked out of command if they were not approved by Nightwatch. Keeping your head down wouldn't have been enough, you'd have to actively discourage disagreement with Clarke's regime, on whatever grounds, within your ranks.
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Aug 27, 2019 20:05
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Narsham posted:(aside from the "I trust her because we were married" twist). I think I like that part just because it sets up some good lines. "How many wives has this guy had?" "Just three." And, in Crusade, Gideon going on about how great Sheridan is, while also having a vaguely romantic dinner with Lochley. Honestly, my favorite Lochley bits were all in post-Season 5 stuff.
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Aug 28, 2019 00:29
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I agree Lochley definitely did better in her Crusade appearances. Not being shackled to being Not-Ivanova probably helped.
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Aug 28, 2019 02:56
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wait how was ivanova supposed to be the quimby character she was ride or die for sheridan from what i can recall?
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Aug 29, 2019 23:23
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So someone in the Star Trek thread casually mentioned the Mission log podcast and holy hell was that something that I didn't know I needed in my life but it's so great. I LOVE thoughtful recaps of media I've just consumed and it's serving great for my rewatch of all things Star Trek. Point is, since I'm working my way through B5 for the first time, is there a similar podcast that starts at the beginning and goes through each episode that I can listen to while I commute after watching the ep?
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Aug 30, 2019 00:28
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Greatest Generation is the superior Trek Pod. Sadly I've never found a B5 cast that wasn't bad or grating.
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Aug 30, 2019 00:34
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Platonicsolid posted:Greatest Generation is the superior Trek Pod. Oh no, not another podcast on the same subject. I'm working through TOS right now but will give both a try for TNG to see which I like better. Thanks! Pity about B5 podcasts.
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Aug 30, 2019 00:50
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The only B5 podcast I tried to listen to was a couple of people very slowly and repetitively retelling the story of the episode in like an hour twenty minutes. No interesting analysis or ideas or anything, just dragging out the plot points to twice the length of the actual episode. There are a few out there though and I didn't try them all.
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Aug 30, 2019 00:52
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TraderStav posted:So someone in the Star Trek thread casually mentioned the Mission log podcast and holy hell was that something that I didn't know I needed in my life but it's so great. I LOVE thoughtful recaps of media I've just consumed and it's serving great for my rewatch of all things Star Trek. Name of the Pod seems okay so far, but I am not an avid listener to recap podcasts to know good from bad.
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Aug 30, 2019 01:03
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I’d recommend The Audio Guide to Babylon 5 - they’ve finished the main series and the first three movies and are officially on hiatus until they go back and do Crusade and the other movies. It has however been a year since the hiatus starts so it’s possible they’ve moved on. As a bonus they split the discussion into spoiler and non-spoiler sections so you can listen to it without being spoilt.
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Aug 30, 2019 01:06
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Great! I'll give both a try and see where it goes. Thanks!
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Aug 30, 2019 01:09
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lost my old email posted:wait how was ivanova supposed to be the quimby character she was ride or die for sheridan from what i can recall? She wasn’t but she was just supposed to take over from Sheridan after he was made President. She wasn’t going to be made a secret Clark sympathizer. But other than that her storyline was divided across Lyta and Lochley. (At least I seem to remember that she was supposed to get involved with the leader of the ren fest rejects.
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Aug 30, 2019 01:39
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Zaroff posted:I’d recommend The Audio Guide to Babylon 5 - they’ve finished the main series and the first three movies and are officially on hiatus until they go back and do Crusade and the other movies. It has however been a year since the hiatus starts so it’s possible they’ve moved on. I'll second that. They're generally fairly entertaining and insightful. There's also the old Babylon Podcast, not so much for discussing episodes but for all their interviews. IIRC, Jeffrey Willerth was one of the people doing the podcast: he was producer's assistant for the show and was the guy in the Kosh suit (not the voice), so they managed to get interviews with almost everybody, cast and some of the crew, including JMS.
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Aug 30, 2019 04:33
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"Oh cool, Interludes and Examinations is up next, that was a good episode." "Oh poo poo, this is THAT episode." x3 "John, I don't have a lot of time." "Goddammit." My rewatch has gotten into the good stuff. Man, when this first aired there was this shocked silence afterwards that you could detect over a dialup connection. Then the newsgroup melted down, almost as bad as the Red Wedding. People were upset. Not as many people mind you, but people were hurt.
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Aug 30, 2019 04:55
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TraderStav posted:Pity about B5 podcasts. traderstav make the podcast
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Aug 30, 2019 06:45
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Doctor Zero posted:She wasn’t but she was just supposed to take over from Sheridan after he was made President. She wasn’t going to be made a secret Clark sympathizer. But other than that her storyline was divided across Lyta and Lochley. (At least I seem to remember that she was supposed to get involved with the leader of the ren fest rejects. Honestly that makes me glad she dropped out of S5 because that would have ruined her character.
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Aug 30, 2019 07:27
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The Unlife Aquatic posted:Honestly that makes me glad she dropped out of S5 because that would have ruined her character. The poo poo between Lyta and Byron was gross enough on its own that I can't help but agree. Considering JMS' feelings for the actress, this-- yeah. Just thinking about it skeeves me out a bit. EDIT - I never liked how things panned out between those two, and I hated that Lyta didn't realize she was being used by Byron in the same way she saw herself as being used by everyone else. I get that she's presented as starved for some kind of actual, human attention after everything she's been through, but that should've just made the slight that much more devastating. What it did to her character was reinforce a wallflower/withing violet vibe, when I really just wanted her to tell Byron to go gently caress himself, even though she believed in the cause. gently caress, especially since she believed in the cause. I mean, I get (kind of) the character arc behind it, I just really, really hate how it played out. I might be alone in that, idk. In a perfect world, she would have nuked Byron and taken over the whole 'movement' somehow, and those stupid Byron gang tags would've been some 'Never Again' slogan of a woman that's Just loving Had It with everything. Old Boot fucked around with this message at 11:12 on Aug 30, 2019 |
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Aug 30, 2019 11:03
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Blindeye posted:Name of the Pod seems okay so far, but I am not an avid listener to recap podcasts to know good from bad. I’m one of the dudes on The Name of the Pod and I’d say we’re okay to not terrible. I think we may have been a bit harsh on season 1 but lightened up as the series progressed. We don’t do recaps, mainly analyses and discussion. We’ll be starting season 5 in a few weeks - if there are any topics folks would like to hear about let me know.
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Aug 30, 2019 19:44
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Yeah. Byron - worst character on the show, sci -fi, or all of TV history? its the last one
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Aug 30, 2019 21:26
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Doctor Zero posted:Yeah. Byron - worst character on the show, sci -fi, or all of TV history? I almost hate to ask this but could you go into detail? I loathed his character and tended to halfway ignore him. He seemed like the standard “full of bs pretentious wanker who used his charisma and fanciful words to manipulate people into following him but pretend he wasn’t forcing them to fulfill his own agenda” cult leader type. He never seemed authentic to me and I partially just attributed it to failures on the actor and a hurried script speeding to the end. Was there more I didn’t notice? I could definitely feel the “relationship” felt more like him playing to his own ego and taking advantage of someone vulnerable but I figured it was again those previously mentioned flaws. Was there more concrete warning signs I failed to notice? I saw the movie Mandy and that cult leader gave me a kindred vibe. Mandy is an amazingly hosed up film by the by and you guys should watch it.
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Aug 31, 2019 01:49
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