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fnox posted:it’s a poo poo excuse bruv what excuse? you wanted me to donate to caritas because of... what. and i said no, i wont
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Aug 30, 2019 10:41
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im getting extremely owned here ill give you that. butt please, tell me more about why im not donating to caritas
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Aug 30, 2019 10:43
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donate a shipping container of carnitas to maduro personally
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Aug 30, 2019 10:55
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donating to charity is the limit of political action to liberals, which is also the real reason they hate the FARC
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Aug 30, 2019 10:56
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:donating to charity is the limit of political action to liberals, which is also the real reason they hate the FARC you mean aside from bombing, which i guess isn't really very political action
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Aug 30, 2019 11:00
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bombing, much like engineering a golpe, is an entirely apolitical policy, as you would know if you'd read the op
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Aug 30, 2019 11:06
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fnox posted:he didn’t until April 2019, for nearly 7 years of crisis he didn’t let anyone bring aid. now he’s letting the Red Cross in, and they’re severely underfunded, so help them out. huh that's weird cause i also remember you being one of those guys who were extremely adamant that nothing in venezuela could get better unless maduro and the chavista cockroaches were swept away by a tide of cleansing fire, yet here it seems like you're saying that just donating enough cash would make things better also this raises a second question: given that our lords and saviors guaido and bolton have assured us that the us government only wants whats best for the people of venezuela, why don't they chuck a cool couple of billions or so to the red cross no strings attached for use in venezuela?
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Aug 30, 2019 11:11
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somehow i think there's a contradiction between calling for charity and letting in aid and supporting sanctions that order tankers full of food headed to venezuela to turn around these humanitarian interventions are always so complicated
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Aug 30, 2019 12:00
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Cerebral Bore posted:huh that's weird cause i also remember you being one of those guys who were extremely adamant that nothing in venezuela could get better unless maduro and the chavista cockroaches were swept away by a tide of cleansing fire, yet here it seems like you're saying that just donating enough cash would make things better i mean poo poo you really got me there chief! its not like the aid can come in to at least get some Venezuelans to eat in the meanwhile while we figure out how to get a less incompetent government in power. it’s one or the other, you can’t possibly loving ever do two things at once. but yeah aid is a temporary measure to improve living standards in the short term, things will only get fixed once you rid the country of its corrupt, incompetent, criminal and nepotistic overlords. get the government to fear the people again and maybe you’ll see some changes in the country. just btw the United States government donates $400m yearly to the Red Cross lol, they’re the largest donator. the Red Cross is 85% funded by world governments, mostly the western ones. comedyblissoption posted:somehow i think there's a contradiction between calling for charity and letting in aid and supporting sanctions that order tankers full of food headed to venezuela to turn around literally never happened my dude. didn’t you see that loving WhatsApp screenshot, it’s comedy gold.
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Aug 30, 2019 12:08
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those tankers arent full of food, they're full of COMMUNISM
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Aug 30, 2019 12:18
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fnox posted:i mean poo poo you really got me there chief! its not like the aid can come in to at least get some Venezuelans to eat in the meanwhile while we figure out how to get a less incompetent government in power. it’s one or the other, you can’t possibly loving ever do two things at once. well that's weird because i've been assured by the great and unimpeachably honest gentlemen donald trump and john bolton that the us, the most generous country on earth, has infinite amounts of aid just ready to roll into venezuela at any moment, but the vile and subhuman chavista is keeping it out because his bloodthirst demands suffering for its own sake so the simple solution here seems to just give all that aid to the red cross since they're so scrupulously honest and accountable and their aid seems to get through, but for some strange reason this just doesn't seem to be happening which is no doubt explained by another evil plot by the chavista world government
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Aug 30, 2019 12:23
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ah yes replacing corrupt, incompetent, criminal and nepotistic overlords with *checks notes* a cia stooge backed by elliot abrams, john bolton, and donald trump who publicly say they want to privatize the oil industry for foreign capital and whether or not the tanker story is fake in whole or in part is irrelevant considering the goal of the sanctions is to starve the venezuelan people which is still in conflict with the bloviating about charity
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Aug 30, 2019 12:36
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no you see the corrupt chavista is incapable of good government, unlike the morally upstanding underlings of the great guaido, who use money responsibly on things like hookers and champagne parties
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Aug 30, 2019 12:40
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Cerebral Bore posted:no you see the corrupt chavista is incapable of good government, unlike the morally upstanding underlings of the great guaido, who use money responsibly on things like hookers and champagne parties ya gotta spend money to make money
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Aug 30, 2019 13:00
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comedyblissoption posted:ah yes replacing corrupt, incompetent, criminal and nepotistic overlords with *checks notes* a cia stooge backed by elliot abrams, john bolton, and donald trump who publicly say they want to privatize the oil industry for foreign capital starving them how? there’s no actual tankers of food being turned around, that was all bullshit. food can still be imported into the country. how come local food production is at an all time low? why didn’t Maduro or Chávez for that matter ever concern themselves with keeping the country’s agricultural output up so that we wouldn’t rely on imports? they’re starving because they’re poorer than ever before, they’re poorer than ever before because their economy is handled by a corrupt moron who wants them poor. hey, it’s almost like America in a way!
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Aug 30, 2019 13:06
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fnox posted:why didn’t Maduro or Chávez for that matter ever concern themselves with keeping the country’s agricultural output up so that we wouldn’t rely on imports? why didn't any of Venezuela's leaders before Maduro and Chavez do that, either?
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Aug 30, 2019 13:12
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clearly they were puppets controlled by vile chavista time travel colectivo commandos
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Aug 30, 2019 13:19
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gradenko_2000 posted:why didn't any of Venezuela's leaders before Maduro and Chavez do that, either? everyone after CAP 1 was a bit poo poo, including CAP 2. Chavez was, you know, meant to be something unlike what came before, that was his campaign promise. but i mean it more as in, why did your paragon of socialism not actually, you know, achieve socialism in any shape way or form? he just made most people really poor, some really rich, and made all the expropriated poo poo just completely idle and non functional. is this what the revolución bonita really is? btw the current numbers are oh so much worse than the worst of CAP 2. just the decline from 2010 to 2015 is insane. I still can’t believe the FAO gave Chavez an award lmao.
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Aug 30, 2019 13:22
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well wait a minute, if you agree that Venezuelan heads-of-state throughout the history of the nation have failed to improve agricultural output such that there wouldn't be food shortages, etc., doesn't it seem like there's a particular double-standard at play here for holding Maduro responsible to the extent that he should be removed for merely failing to vault the same bar that everybody else? I mean, at the very least that merely puts him in the same category as "a bit poo poo", and insofar as I'm not up to scratch on my pre-21st century Venezuelan political history, I'm pretty sure the so-called international community didn't take as much issue with... Rafael Caldera.
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Aug 30, 2019 13:28
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fnox posted:starving them how? there’s no actual tankers of food being turned around, that was all bullshit. food can still be imported into the country. how come local food production is at an all time low? why didn’t Maduro or Chávez for that matter ever concern themselves with keeping the country’s agricultural output up so that we wouldn’t rely on imports?
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Aug 30, 2019 13:37
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lol the sanctions don't target food! too bad they target everything else and a. companies doing business with vz become toxic to the global financial capital thus risking blacklisting and b. the state is directly barred from using its resources to buy food because they were seized. why wont the evil maduro import more food?
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Aug 30, 2019 13:39
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comedyblissoption posted:do you even know what sanctions are i mean do you? the tankers thing was bullshit. so go ahead explain to me how did the sanctions from 2017 start shortages in 2013 that have only gotten worse and worse? where’s the idiot suggesting time travel, bring him back in
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Aug 30, 2019 13:44
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AFAIK there are also actually targeted sanctions on the venezuelan food subsidy program it would be the equivalent of another country sanctioning the institutions involved in the food stamp program in the united states, alleging corruption and rent-seeking behavior inherent in the program and using it to influence votes
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Aug 30, 2019 13:45
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fnox posted:i mean do you? the tankers thing was bullshit. so go ahead explain to me how did the sanctions from 2017 start shortages in 2013 that have only gotten worse and worse?
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Aug 30, 2019 13:47
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"Chavez made everyone really poor" is not at all supportable, even a few years ago poverty rates in Venezuela had gone down from about 50% pre-Chavez to less than 20%. Nowadays that's rocketed up to 80% but do you really think that economic collapse was deliberate and desired by the PSUV? It's curious that this supposed kleptocracy-by-design spent more than a decade strenuously improving living standards before the economy cratered. Also curious that the same opponents of the PSUV now were plotting their overthrow when they were measurably improving the country. Really weird, unexplainable.
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Aug 30, 2019 13:49
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i can't believe this leader of a developing country didn't do the thing that's eluded (read: been deliberately denied) countless other leaders of developing countries, especially with a big bright target painted on his back. down with chavismo
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Aug 30, 2019 13:54
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oh yeah one more thing before I come back to the equally dull D&D thread. what even is your end goal? do you just wanna seem smug to each other? there’s clearly no discussion to be had because even if you’re proven completely loving wrong you choose to repeat things ad nauseum. never a retraction, nothing, just hold the party line. you don’t really understand the country, nor you really care about it. you don’t speak or read Spanish so you can’t rely on local sources everything needs to come through this tiny little network of tankie influencers who tell you what to think. you don’t debate so much as just shout endlessly at the sky. you also all think charity is somehow evil. I’ve seen you all just get angrier and angrier and angrier and propose less and less. so really, what are you trying to do? is it just some way to vent, this endless repetition? is there an end goal? isn’t there anything you collectively could maybe achieve to change anything? honestly it’s just sad and pathetic to hear so many excuses about the degree of utter inaction i see from tankies. all talk. worse than even the shittiest American politician, they talk awful poo poo too but at least something gets done even if it’s also awful. whatever, time to head back. keep on talking behind people’s backs on a dying forum, you’ll overthrow capitalism any day now. John Charity Spring posted:"Chavez made everyone really poor" is not at all supportable, even a few years ago poverty rates in Venezuela had gone down from about 50% pre-Chavez to less than 20%. Nowadays that's rocketed up to 80% but do you really think that economic collapse was deliberate and desired by the PSUV? It's curious that this supposed kleptocracy-by-design spent more than a decade strenuously improving living standards before the economy cratered. Also curious that the same opponents of the PSUV now were plotting their overthrow when they were measurably improving the country. Really weird, unexplainable. check those numbers for 2012 onwards then write back. also yes it absolutely is desirable for them because the only people who think the PSUV is in any way functional is idiotic American leftists. hint, if the ”increase in living standards” lasted only as long as oil prices were at over 100 dollars, then it wasn’t really loving functional now was it? that’s because the money was spent in short term solutions despite 12 years of Chavismo being more than enough to establish a working welfare state. fnox has issued a correction as of 14:06 on Aug 30, 2019 |
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Aug 30, 2019 13:56
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The US doing absolutely nothing with regards Venezuela would be the best thing to have ever happened to the country. They currently are not doing that. hope this helps!
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Aug 30, 2019 13:58
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fnox posted:so really, what are you trying to do? is it just some way to vent, this endless repetition? is there an end goal? isn’t there anything you collectively could maybe achieve to change anything? honestly it’s just sad and pathetic to hear so many excuses about the degree of utter inaction i see from tankies. all talk. worse than even the shittiest American politician, they talk awful poo poo too but at least something gets done even if it’s also awful. the end goal is to keep the us from having yet another destructive military adventure in south america that will inevitably lead to even more widespread misery and death you colossal turd
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Aug 30, 2019 14:00
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"I found you injured in the street and I didn't just walk on because that would have been monstrous. Instead, I kicked you repeatedly in the stomach. Hey at least something got done"
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Aug 30, 2019 14:00
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idk you could like read any book on the history of us american imperialism in the past two centuries in latin america instead of being a willful idiot for john bolton and the cia and celebrating how they at least get poo poo done
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Aug 30, 2019 14:02
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fnox posted:oh yeah one more thing before I come back to the equally dull D&D thread. what even is your end goal? 
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Aug 30, 2019 14:02
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comedyblissoption posted:idk you could like read any book on the history of us american imperialism in the past two centuries in latin america instead of being a willful idiot for john bolton and the cia and celebrating how they at least get poo poo done But that wont sate his murder-boner
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Aug 30, 2019 14:04
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love to support starving people and denying them medicine and cloak it in humanitarian concern and the need for charity love me love me love me im a liberal
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Aug 30, 2019 14:05
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John Charity Spring posted:"I found you injured in the street and I didn't just walk on because that would have been monstrous. Instead, I kicked you repeatedly in the stomach. Hey at least something got done" lol no dude its more like you caressed his hair gently that's a more accurate description of the effect of the sanctions and this matters a whole lot
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Aug 30, 2019 14:13
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fnox posted:oh yeah one more thing before I come back to the equally dull D&D thread. what even is your end goal? do you just wanna seem smug to each other? there’s clearly no discussion to be had because even if you’re proven completely loving wrong you choose to repeat things ad nauseum. never a retraction, nothing, just hold the party line. Whereas your end goal of "yell at leftists online until they magically fix the Venezuela situation somehow" is noble and worthwhile.
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Aug 30, 2019 14:13
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charity over baghdad
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Aug 30, 2019 14:14
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mfw sanctions don't actually ever affect the material conditions of a country to provide for its people and all that is needed is charity and regime change to overcome https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iFYaeoE3n4
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Aug 30, 2019 14:16
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in "the other thread" fnox seemed to completely reject the idea of sanctions having a material impact, and instead blamed Maduro (again) for forcing the US to impose sanctions by being a bad leader. idk for sure because he constantly talks out of both sides of his mouth and won't ever defend any actual specifics beyond vague notions like "international pressure"
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Aug 30, 2019 14:20
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sanctions are like precision guided munitions. i like to call them smart sanctions. they only ever hit the bad guys and anything bad that happens to anyone else is the fault of the bad guys for not caring enough about their own people. any suggestions that such actions are undertaken to "make the economy scream" or to immiserate and starve and kill people to make the current government unpopular is russian bot propaganda
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Aug 30, 2019 14:23
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