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Lockback posted:There is a decent chance someone screwed with her cover letter template and she didn't realize. Probably not a good idea for a job where you have to proofread a lot but she may not know that is her intro line. It was an email she sent as a cover. Mordiceius posted:Her intro loving owns and she seems like a cool and good person. Sorry y'all are just unfunny robots. She’s also unqualified af compared to others and knows it. If you’re completely unqualified and know it, don’t write a funny cover letter unless you also make it clear why you understand the firm needs better than the better qualified people and for that reason you’ll catch up and pass them. Idk why y’all want lil miss quarky to be a winner here. CarForumPoster fucked around with this message at 03:25 on Aug 25, 2019 |
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Aug 25, 2019 03:15
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You sound insufferably uncool and uptight and I wouldn’t want to work for you.
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Aug 25, 2019 05:32
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That is a weird cover letter. If she was trying to be a bit humorous she should have mixed it up a bit:quote:To Whom It May Concern:
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Aug 25, 2019 05:58
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BeastOfExmoor posted:That is a weird cover letter. If she was trying to be a bit humorous she should have mixed it up a bit: This is actually a great idea.
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Aug 25, 2019 14:28
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CarForumPoster posted:It was an email she sent as a cover.
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Aug 25, 2019 14:42
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Cover letters should never be an attempt at comedy. Given the risk of this point being missed due to people trying to be charitable to the unqualified applicant, this needs to be restated.
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Aug 25, 2019 17:09
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Vegetable posted:Cover letters should never be an attempt at comedy. Given the risk of this point being missed due to people trying to be charitable to the unqualified applicant, this needs to be restated. Thank you! This thread is for advice on how to do resumes and interviews well. There are 4 or 5 regular posters in here that actually hire and let you see the other side. Have you ever seen them recommend be loving hilarious in your cover letter? No. Dik Hz posted:If she's completely unqualified, that's a brilliant opener, because a non-zero percentage of people are going to find it interesting enough to at least give her a phone screen. Whereas zero percent of people will give her a shot based on her qualifications. Also, lawyers are terrible at hiring decisions so it could very well pay off for her. It isn't. I know this is a dead gay comedy forum but I don't want people in this thread doing this. The brilliant thing to do would be to study up on the things we mentioned in the job posting and talk about how she can do those things. A brilliant opener from a 0 experience English major for us would be: quote:I noticed in your job description your law firm uses Excel and does a lot of internet research. During undergrad I used Excel to [1 sentence personal project description]. I used pivot tables and macros to [problem solved with those]. Additionally, as part of a journalism course I used public records to investigate [X]. My article on [X] was published in the student newspaper. Although I've not worked in a law firm before, I present very professionally and my good grades reflect my attention to detail and ability to manage a schedule. That is someone who read the job description and can take a job description where we articulate our needs and parrot them back to us with examples to show they understand them, despite being new to the job. This is how you get jobs anywhere, not just with us.
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Aug 25, 2019 17:54
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God, why are suits so insufferable.
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Aug 25, 2019 19:25
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CarForumPoster posted:It isn't. I know this is a dead gay comedy forum but I don't want people in this thread doing this. The brilliant thing to do would be to study up on the things we mentioned in the job posting and talk about how she can do those things. A brilliant opener from a 0 experience English major for us would be: And granted, you probably don't want to work at a law firm that makes hiring decisions based on schlock in cover letters. But honestly, I think you're overthinking this. I make a decision by the time I've read the first page of the resume. I've hired dozens of people and read hundreds of resumes and can't remember a single time a cover letter made the difference one way or the other. And I do agree that if someone can study for a weekend to get the qualifications to do the job, they're better off doing that than using humor in a cover letter. On the other had, if someone can study enough between the time they apply and the time a hiring decision is made, it is quite likely that they could quickly and easily be trained on those things upon hiring.
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Aug 25, 2019 19:32
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Cover letters are loving stupid in the first place.
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Aug 25, 2019 19:34
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Dik Hz posted:Ok, if your goal is to get a job with a law firm with no qualifications, then dumb poo poo like that is pretty much your only play. Just like if you're broke and need $1,000,000 by Tuesday, your only way is to buy lottery tickets. Or if you're down 6 with 0:03 on the clock, you throw the ball into the end zone and pray. It's stupid, but there you go. There are a myriad of unknown factors that could swing an underqualified applicant’s way. By contrast, there’s a near-zero chance that anybody appreciates your comedy. The best hail mary anyone can do is to put their best foot forward.
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Aug 26, 2019 03:11
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Vegetable posted:This is really awful advice. Edit: To clarify, if the hiring manager is competent, no unqualified candidate will get the job. If the hiring manager is incompetent at hiring, a bland unqualified candidate will not get the job. However, if the hiring manager is incompetent at hiring, a quirky humorous candidate might get an edge if they appeal to the hiring manager. The lovely prize is a job working for an incompetent manager. But if they're just after a job and they're completely unqualified, might as well roll the dice. Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 05:14 on Aug 26, 2019 |
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Aug 26, 2019 05:02
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Lockback posted:Its why I like to see a line or two in a resume on personal interests. If they are a 3D printing hobbiest, I'll ask them to explain to me what 3D printer I should get as a newcomer, and what I should look to do to get into the hobby. If I see people lived somewhere else I'll frequently ask them to tell me how they liked living in city XYZ, it's another good way to see how they talk in non-interview mode. Absolutely agree with this advice. People prepare for "normal" interview questions. I find that asking about outside interests is a great way to assess people's culture fit, and their ability to communicate confidently. I also like to start interviews with a solid amount of rapport building. Not 2 minutes of small talk either. Sometimes I'll chat with somebody for 5-10 minutes before starting the actual interview. Find some common ground and "make a new friend" so to speak. Yes it's a fair bit of effort if you're running many interviews in a day, but it really helps you find the right fit for your company imho.
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Aug 26, 2019 13:48
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Lockback posted:Out of towners are far more likely to fall through and I would be WAYYY more likely to pass over a out-of-town resume vs a local. It's not the relocation money, it's the fact that all of the poo poo that has to line up for someone to move across the country makes it far more likely that the person never actually starts even if you like them. That is a giant pain in the rear end and costs a ton of time and money. Looping back to this post. I'm currently on the East Coast and looking at positions in the Bay Area, as there are more opportunities for the industry I want to grow in. Is there a regional bias for applicants? I know it's an added expense for companies, and I've never had experience traveling for a company's interview before (I was previously in academic research so everything was out of pocket before). From my perspective in the Boston area (where I currently am), I know there are locally many qualified candidates so it makes little sense for a company to bring in someone from so far away. This would pale even in comparison to the Bay Area. I am not sure if the types of positions I'm looking toward include relocation (does this happen for non-senior level positions?). Thinking ahead (...this is definitely a weakness of mine), would it make sense to use a friend's/family's address in the resume/application? Could this be something that would impact a background check? Or should I just try networking with connections so the distance becomes a non-factor?
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Aug 26, 2019 20:59
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Companies will sometimes do relocation or (more likely for non-senior) a partial relocation or signing bonus which might cover some but not all expenses. Depends on the company. Keep in mind, stuff you spend on moving for a job may be tax deductible. But as I said in the quote the bigger drain is going through the hiring process, landing on someone, setting the start date for 5 weeks (because it's not like someone in Boston can start in 2 weeks), and then them falling through forcing you to start the whole drat thing over again. That is expensive and (worse) a waste of time. Using a family's address has the problem of having to basically say "Yeah I lied on the Resume", which for me would be an instant death knell. If you have a solid moving date in mind then that's better "I wasn't sure when people were going to look at my Resume so I used the address that would still be there in a month". Networking is also a good route, I'd feel a lot better about a transplant referral vs a rando who applied. Also be aware many company recruiters will insta-reject out of town resumes.
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Aug 26, 2019 21:20
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Suicide Watch posted:Looping back to this post. I'm currently on the East Coast and looking at positions in the Bay Area, as there are more opportunities for the industry I want to grow in. I think a lot of it depends on the industry. I work in film, so in Los Angeles, the jobs are plentiful (as are the applicants), so they have zero need to even look at out of town applicants. Meanwhile, my wife works in psychology at a doctoral level. There aren't nearly as many positions or applicants so people applying from out-of-town is the norm and accepted.
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Aug 27, 2019 00:27
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Suicide Watch posted:Looping back to this post. I'm currently on the East Coast and looking at positions in the Bay Area, as there are more opportunities for the industry I want to grow in. If you're a skilled professional looking to change geography, just put in your cover letter that you're open to relocation. The difference between a good hire and a bad hire is huge compared to a local hire vs a remote hire. Local hire only is a key word for a cheap-as-gently caress employer. Unless you're desperate, it's best to avoid those situations. If you are desperate, just find a connection or distant relative that wound receive mail for you in a pinch and put that address on your resume. Dik Hz fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Aug 27, 2019 |
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Aug 27, 2019 01:46
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Suicide Watch posted:Looping back to this post. I'm currently on the East Coast and looking at positions in the Bay Area, as there are more opportunities for the industry I want to grow in. Dik Hz posted:I'm speaking from personal experience as a dude who hires in a STEM field, so it might not apply to your situation. Once you're looking for an experienced person, the costs of relocation become negligible compared to hiring. Relocating costs $5k compared to $20k for the recruiter and a $100k salary. Better to spend an extra 5% and get the right person. If you have to train that person, it's more advantageous to just hire any schmuck and pay $2k to train them. Just hire a fresh grad who's young and hungry and send them off to the specialized training you need. The money you save on salary more than makes up for the training costs. Agree. This was my experience getting hired from East Coast -> Bay Area and then from Bay Area -> East Coast when I had enough of that. I'm an engineer and now I hire engineers, among others, for my tiny company. That said both moves were for top of their industry by market cap companies. Suicide Watch posted:Is there a regional bias for applicants? If you're targeting smaller ones you're probably going to have a tougher time, as Dik Hz said. I worked at a tech giant in the bay area and I'd guess around 50% of my colleagues didn't relo from somewhere for the job. The other 50% came from areas or schools >4 hours away and likely had to relo to come there.
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Aug 27, 2019 22:46
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Is something like Network After Work at all useful for actual networking, or is it mostly just bullshit? I know they sell their attendance lists.
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Aug 28, 2019 04:13
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:they can leave you a voice mail and if they want to communicate with you it'll be over email Update. It’s been a week since the “we haven’t forgotten about you and we will make a decision soon” email from the place. Have received no further updates. They were interviewing for, and have to fill, like 5 positions in my department at once. I keep telling myself that’s the reason for the delay. Trying to be mindful and focus on the present. Enjoying this darn vacation.
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Aug 28, 2019 09:34
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JIZZ DENOUEMENT posted:Update. It’s been a week since the “we haven’t forgotten about you and we will make a decision soon” email from the place. Have received no further updates. Most companies I've done hiring for have convuluted hiring approvals that need to be followed, and when people are on vacation (which happens in late August) things can get ground to a halt for weeks.
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Aug 28, 2019 15:40
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Thanatosian posted:Is something like Network After Work at all useful for actual networking, or is it mostly just bullshit? I know they sell their attendance lists. I don't know that specific instance but a mentor of mine once told me that pure networking events are usually a waste and the best networking is finding organizations where you have affinity and developing from there. It's at least a lot more pleasant.
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Aug 28, 2019 16:21
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Lockback posted:Most companies I've done hiring for have convuluted hiring approvals that need to be followed, and when people are on vacation (which happens in late August) things can get ground to a halt for weeks. Update. Didn’t get the job. RIP. Also the main dude in charge of hiring for the position is apparently leaving the organization. This Friday lol. This really sucks. This was a really rare position at a really impressive organization full of all-stars. It’s likely this position won’t be available for 7+ years. Nobody to blame but myself, didn’t give a good enough interview. At least they were thoughtful and called me for the news. That was much nicer than a boiler plate email, or nothing at all. He said I was a strong candidate and that I certainly made an impression. Which sounds almost like an insult lol. Oh well, back to the grind.
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Aug 30, 2019 14:02
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ah drat dude that sucks, but with the org change and all that it might be for the best. don't beat yourself up over the interview - if there's something you could have done better in advance (preparation etc) then sure, take that as a note for the future, but sometimes you just don't get the job. i bet the opportunity isn't quite as rare as you think it is, though!
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Aug 30, 2019 14:05
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Sorry JIZZ  Maybe their plans for the position got messed up by that one's guy departure, they could have easily tabled it for another time once they've settled down.If the position means that much to you I'd keep an eye on that company and their job postings. When my wife interviewed for her postdoc she originally didn't get the job, then four months later she noticed that the exact same listing went back up online so she reached out directly to the professor in charge of the role. Apparently the person they initially hired had to suddenly resign for family reasons and the prof gave my wife the job after one or two more phone calls because he still remembered her earlier interview. Weird poo poo happens and the hiring process as a whole is terribly unscientific.
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Aug 30, 2019 14:16
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i don't think making the hiring process more scientific is necessarily a good thing. this is how you end up with dumb keyword requirements.
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Aug 30, 2019 14:20
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dude jizz, just as likely as you hosed up the interview is that you just narrowly missed joining an organization that's melting down. You may very well be better off without that job for all you know.
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Aug 30, 2019 14:35
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:i don't think making the hiring process more scientific is necessarily a good thing. this is how you end up with dumb keyword requirements. Maybe "random" is a better description, but I mean that all sorts of stuff can derail or reroute the filling of a given position, and companies can and will change their hiring requirements on the fly. The job I'm starting in a couple of weeks was originally going to be based out of LA, and I applied for a different job at the company and they said "we think you're really qualified for this other role, so much so that we're willing to move it to PA where you live". If you assume that every job application rejection is entirely your fault, then you're going to be really miserable and have a hard time staying motivated in your search (or worse, sell yourself short in terms of where you apply).
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Aug 30, 2019 22:34
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C-Euro posted:If you assume that every job application rejection is entirely your fault, then you're going to be really miserable and have a hard time staying motivated in your search (or worse, sell yourself short in terms of where you apply). 
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Aug 30, 2019 23:11
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No
JIZZ DENOUEMENT fucked around with this message at 06:07 on Dec 23, 2019 |
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Aug 31, 2019 00:04
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The only way to close 100% of your opportunities is to only ever apply for jobs you're overqualified for and tell them you're happy to accept a below market salary. Actually even then you won't close 100%, some companies would assume you'll jump to a better job ASAP and others will have already made up their mind to hire a director's niece. If you're actually stretching yourself and developing your career, you have to accept that sometimes, not once but numerous times, you'll apply for a job that's a perfect fit, everything will seem aligned, and you won't get the job. Sometimes there's another candidate who's better qualified, or just as good who got there first, or sometimes they've already made up their mind to hire a director's nephew, or sometimes there's internal bullshit going on that you'll never know about. poo poo happens. None of this is a reason to not always be working your rear end off to better yourself! But you're doing yourself no favors if you blame yourself and feel discouraged anytime you don't get a job. Every job worth having draws a dozen or more qualified candidates, and a lot of what happens after that is random. Also: When should you be networking? You should always be networking.
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Aug 31, 2019 00:14
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Senior Accountant level. Resume is here: https://i.imgur.com/VHyjPdi.jpg Certified Public Accountant ~ 7 years experience 2 years public accounting 5 years industry accounting, Fortune 500 Seeking: Industry Job (not pursuing public accounting) Took a severance package (not fired), to go and take care of sick parents. In the meantime, significant other got a promotion to NYC. SO makes very good money now and has been floating me since. Moved to NYC to June. Have been trying to get employment for 3 months straight and have been unsuccessful. Please let me know what I'm doing wrong, or how I could do it better. Online / Cold Apps
Referrals
- On a side note, I don't know why some companies are looking for Ivy League experience for accounting roles. A CPA is a CPA, same knowledge whether you learned it at Harvard or some community college in Wyoming. Its a standardized test. There is virtually no difference in someone knowing a debit or a credit to run your spreadsheets. Recruiters I told the majority to go away after the first month. They kept trying to sell me on extremely poor opportunities. Smif-N-Wessun fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 18:50
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What types of jobs are you applying for? What makes a senior accountant in Seattle might not be the same in New York.
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Sep 1, 2019 21:17
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Smif-N-Wessun posted:- On a side note, I don't know why some companies are looking for Ivy League experience for accounting roles. A CPA is a CPA, same knowledge whether you learned it at Harvard or some community college in Wyoming. Its a standardized test. There is virtually no difference in someone knowing a debit or a credit to run your spreadsheets. It's not about qualifications, it's about only hiring The Right Kind of People. The painful but honest answer is that your friends are giving you accurate info: you are going to have a very hard time finding a suitable job in NYC, because you're not part of the right networks. Your numbers don't seem out of line to me given other info. It's a brutal job market and the jobs you're shooting for are almost entirely controlled by the Ivy League Trust Fund Network. I admire your tenacity and hope it works out. But most likely your realistic options are look outside NYC or accept a step down in level/pay. I want to be helpful so I'm trying to phrase things gently... your qualifications are strong in many places but will mostly be sneered at if you're going for senior-level accounting jobs in the financial capital of the western world. Eric the Mauve fucked around with this message at 21:47 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 21:45
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Lockback posted:What types of jobs are you applying for? What makes a senior accountant in Seattle might not be the same in New York. The same level of accounting work. Senior Accountant is one step above Accountant. It's still relatively low. I don't mean Senior as in a partner role or director role. It is absolutely the same level depending on the company more than the location in my opinion. Eric the Mauve posted:It's not about qualifications, it's about only hiring The Right Kind of People. Dude, if I have to fight Harvard grads for an $80k a year job, then that speaks volumes as to how dumb these companies are. I'm sure I'll land something eventually, its just been a very taxing ordeal. My friends are state school kids as well, and they got on their feet in NYC. Theres alot of struggle stories from them though, but everyone eventually found their way. I understand exactly what you're saying because I've experienced it. It's a case of "you meet every single requirement and then some, but we can't hire you, you aren't from Yale. And yes, I am 50 years old and yes, I still pride myself on where I went to school 30 years ago." It's not like I went to a small community college somewhere, not that thats a problem. It seems like these people will get hung up on the fact that you went to USC, Texas A&M, University of Florida, or Georgia instead of Upenn or Brown. Those state schools are just as good as far as teaching the technical skills, and I'd bet everything I have if you took students that have earned CPAs in both groups, the knowledge would be more or less the same. I don't see the appeal of going Ivy League anyways, IMO state schools are much more fun and are better for social development in your early years. You'll meet many more diverse groups of people from different points of life than you would going to Yale. A CPA that studied on his own and passed the exams after attending night school at community college in the middle of Iowa should be just as proficient of an accountant as a Harvard grad when it comes to applying technical skills at work. Thats the point of a standardized exam, and its not exactly an easy one to pass. Sorry about the rant. I hate elitist culture. Don't get me wrong, I understand your point. At this point in my life I understand how the world is, despite how it should be. And I can't leave the city, my SO is here and is in a good spot earning a great salary. I wouldn't have came here on my own. Smif-N-Wessun fucked around with this message at 22:32 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 22:19
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Also wanted to ask if there are any online resources or such that help you with interviews? Aside from just googling questions and prepping for them.
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Sep 1, 2019 23:29
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Not every company in New York is a snooty investment bank. There must be "ordinary" accountancy jobs that deal with ordinary firms. Try looking in the other boroughs.
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Sep 2, 2019 00:41
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BarbarianElephant posted:Not every company in New York is a snooty investment bank. There must be "ordinary" accountancy jobs that deal with ordinary firms. Try looking in the other boroughs. Yeah I know, its way too big to just have one type of culture. There have to be normal jobs, but its been rather difficult to get my foot in the door in this city.
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Sep 2, 2019 01:03
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Eric the Mauve posted:The only way to close 100% of your opportunities is to only ever apply for jobs you're overqualified for and tell them you're happy to accept a below market salary. Actually even then you won't close 100%, some companies would assume you'll jump to a better job ASAP and others will have already made up their mind to hire a director's niece. I’m networking pretty hard, even though I apply exclusively to public sector jobs. I actually networked with the dude who left on Friday, like four years ago. Member of my professional association in good standing, and certified with their credentials. That’s a good thing to remember about applying to new positions that push my limits. The grind continues. Thanks again for the perspective everyone. My current job is still pretty sweet. I just really want to move back to the Seattle area and up into a higher position.
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Sep 2, 2019 08:14
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I work a lot with data. Today I came out of an interview where I was asked "Tell me about a time when you had to explain a technical concept to a non-technical person." Thing is I've literally never been in this scenario. How does one deal with such questions, then? I'd love to answer in the hypothetical and boy I already have a whole spiel about how I'd do such a thing. So maybe I could have said "No, I haven't been in such a position, but let's imagine this situation, and here's what I would do." But instead I provided a forced example that wasn't very relevant (persuading non-technical people to add technical things to a presentation). To me these are poorly constructed questions. I've always felt that if I were an interviewer I'd try to ask questions that best allow the interviewee to demonstrate their excellence. I wouldn't try to put them in a box or look for ways to ding them. Certainly I value people who can rationally explain how they'd deal with situations that they haven't come across before. Instead it seems like my best way out here was to fictionalize an elaborate tale in advance and memorize it to the best of my ability. I wish it wasn't like that.
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Sep 3, 2019 18:32
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