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Johnny Joestar posted:it's the source of some of my biggest gripes with part 7 and i'm sad to say it's not the last time someone is weird towards lucy steel it sucks but mentally i just age her up but that almost feels like apologism
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Aug 27, 2019 15:22
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i actually said it in a mild spoilered box earlier in the thread but eventually there's a point where it explains what's 'up' between stephen steel and lucy steel and i don't even have an issue with that because it's explained in a way where it doesn't really suck. it's just that araki seems to have this weird habit of trying to pull horror out of varying situations to get a reaction out of readers and i feel like it's what some of the creepy poo poo aimed at lucy is meant to be, for lack of a better explanation. part of that's mainly because that, to me, nothing in the series ever really comes off like araki is being weirdly horny about something as much as he's just prone to putting weird poo poo in and really loves trying to utilize uncomfortable situations in a scenario to add tension. at the same time i'm absolutely not going to try and handwave it away because the part could 100% do without it and everyone in the part, without fail, could be aged up like 5 years and it'd be more fitting and less stupid but then again that's pretty much how it was with part 5 so honestly i have no clue at this point
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Aug 27, 2019 15:39
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Zyla posted:i still l dont understand what the rain guy's powers were all about. I understood him stopping the rain and all that but i dont know why that would make it sharp, and i dont understand how he could melt himself and toss it on other people? Blackmore's power is that he's unstoppable in the rain. He can separate his body and teleport through water, he can control rain droplets and make them as hard and sharp as he likes, he can do whatever the gently caress he wants with the rain, basically. But Catch The Rainbow only works if it's raining. Clear skies? gently caress 'em, he's just some weird loser.
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Aug 27, 2019 15:41
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it's not so much that blackmore inherently makes drops of water sharp or solid or whatever, it's that he can just outright freeze them so they're static in the air to a point where they can support his weight or even theoretically something much heavier. they become so fixated in that spot that in the contest between someone's flesh and the water it's going to end up carving through the person because they're absolutely not going to get it to budge gyro was able to bust through them mainly due to the friction evaporating the water (since it was still water at the end of the day) and at that point the power didn't apply because it wasn't liquid anymore. catch the rainbow is a cool stand and kind of exemplifies how part 7 uses pared-back ideas to make for a threatening fight where the user has definitely drawbacks to work around.
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Aug 27, 2019 15:46
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I can also think of a couple of Westerns where there's a girl main character who's """"14""""" so if anything she's probably supposed to be like if Poco/Anne had a bigger role in the story and then sexual assault horror happens because we're not in a shounen publication anymore. Lucy's payoff is really good but the journey is, hhhh.
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Aug 27, 2019 15:53
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Johnny Joestar posted:i actually said it in a mild spoilered box earlier in the thread but eventually there's a point where it explains what's 'up' between stephen steel and lucy steel and i don't even have an issue with that because it's explained in a way where it doesn't really suck. it's just that araki seems to have this weird habit of trying to pull horror out of varying situations to get a reaction out of readers and i feel like it's what some of the creepy poo poo aimed at lucy is meant to be, for lack of a better explanation. part of that's mainly because that, to me, nothing in the series ever really comes off like araki is being weirdly horny about something as much as he's just prone to putting weird poo poo in and really loves trying to utilize uncomfortable situations in a scenario to add tension.  japan 
bean mom fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Aug 27, 2019 |
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Aug 27, 2019 15:59
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When you've been alive as long as Araki, you lose context of mortal ages.
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Aug 27, 2019 17:27
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Anime ages feel weirder and weirder as I get older. When I was ten or whatever all these highschool aged heroes seem cool and mature and fine. But now that I'm, like, thirty I wanted to take every one in part 5 and not... like, adopt them but they all needed at least another five years in the oven before joining the mob.
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Aug 27, 2019 18:07
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So when we get a Steel Ball Run anime, will they have Ringo gently caress with the OP?
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Aug 27, 2019 18:38
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I hate that Ringo Roadagain is a creepy rear end in a top hat with a suicide fetish and the story paints him as some enlightened loner pursuing a greater destiny that's above social norms. I hate that he gets a flashback to his traumatic past as if it's supposed to make him sympathetic when more interesting characters don't get the same treatment. I hate that the moral of the story is Gyro trying to be a good person is actually a bad thing and he needs to be more of a cold blooded rear end in a top hat like everyone else. I hate that Gyro actually kills Ringo like he wants instead of just knocking him out and leaving him behind. I hate that Gyro is inspired by Ringo's words to the point they magically let him catch up to Diego. Very cool fight though. I like it even more upon rereading. Shame about the rest but at least that's behind now.
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Aug 27, 2019 18:50
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Zyla posted:Mountain tim you rule, but wtf man she's 14 cmon dude thats kinda weird!!! (i guess its not meant to be weird tho? is it that whole japanese age in fiction thing where 14 is young adult and 18 is middle age?) In 1880 age of consent in USA was 10 or 12 years, depending on the state. I'm not saying it was a good thing, just that things were VERY different in that period.
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Aug 27, 2019 19:33
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I can deal with Lucy because the story's set in the 1890s. That's probably not the intent so it feels kinda like a cop-out, but it works for me anyway.
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Aug 27, 2019 19:39
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YF-23 posted:I can deal with Lucy because the story's set in the 1890s. That's probably not the intent so it feels kinda like a cop-out, but it works for me anyway. GimmickMan posted:I hate that Ringo Roadagain is a creepy rear end in a top hat with a suicide fetish and the story paints him as some enlightened loner pursuing a greater destiny that's above social norms. I've never really read the fight this way but I don't really have counter arguments.
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Aug 27, 2019 19:42
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Yeah, it's definitely not the intended reading, but I can't help but see it when I read the arc. It's a lot like Stroheim in part 2 or Mountain Tim m'ladying a 14 year old in that it's pretty hosed up but it's not Araki trying to push forward a lovely worldview or anything .
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Aug 27, 2019 19:55
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with ringo i don't necessarily see it as being a 'correct' way to go about things as much as it's just an alternate way that would possibly serve someone better in some situations. gyro got told a lot by his father to not form any connections but a big part of the mandom fight is gyro telling him to gently caress off in that regard by directly crashing in to go help his friend at possible extreme risk to himself. there's even the earlier bit where johnny tells gyro that sometimes his best just might not be enough purely because sometimes a person will have much more of a personal drive for whatever reason and that's what's going to give them an edge. gyro starts to realize that and his personal convictions help him win out in the end of that whole encounter because he begins to recontextualize how he goes about things. also to be fair ringo was more than ready to just kill them all at multiple points and showed himself to be an outright ruthless rear end in a top hat, so i don't exactly blame gyro for just icing him at the end independent of what ringo really wanted or whatever. the whole encounter gives me like some weird arthurian fable vibes and i'm not sure why.
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Aug 27, 2019 20:04
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GimmickMan posted:I hate that Ringo Roadagain is a creepy rear end in a top hat with a suicide fetish and the story paints him as some enlightened loner pursuing a greater destiny that's above social norms. Yeah, I'm not a big fan of Ringo either. He's kinda presented as being more "noble" than the other terrorists, but I don't think killing someone in a fair duel is any better if you're forcing them into it in the first place. Hot Pants had the right idea, he's a total nutjob. Also after Ringo explained his ability they could have all just left the orchard by keeping their eye on a watch. I know I'm just nitpicking with this and they don't realize this because then there would be no plot, but it kinda bothers me that there was such an obvious solution to their situation. With regards to Gyro catching up to Diego: he does in fact do it magically. The corpse parts are moving together. That is how Gyro and Johnny can make up for hours of disadvantage. While they are focusing on Diego, they can not get past him, because their corpse parts are drawn to his. Once Gyro starts focusing on the goal ahead instead (the spine, which is also Diego's goal), he appears at the same position as Diego.
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Aug 27, 2019 21:40
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Bonus non-serious take: Ringo believes he's an rpg character, which is why he thinks he can achieve personal growth by killing people. Araki is telling us that D&D is the work of the devil.
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Aug 27, 2019 22:07
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Part 9 should be Araki's Greed Island.Dragonwagon posted:With regards to Gyro catching up to Diego: he does in fact do it magically. The corpse parts are moving together. That is how Gyro and Johnny can make up for hours of disadvantage. Okay, I straight up did not notice this, thanks for pointing it out. I figured it was just Gyro feeling inspired enough that he caught up super quick. There was a similar moment in Stage 1 where Diego caught up so quick to Gyro it felt like he teleported next to him, so I shrugged and accepted it. Really though, I wouldn't have minded that happening again, what sat unwell with me was that Gyro pulling it off was directly inspired by the lunatic gunman who forced people into duels teaching him a valuable life lesson about going his own way. And that part is still there, in-universe explanation aside so... Oh well. Moving on. Also, while I'm being negative and coming across as a hater, can I say it kind of sucks that Gaucho is from Mexico? The northmost and southmost extremes of latin america aren't the same place, come on Araki. To end this post saying something positive: I'd completely forgotten about Diego creating dinosaur ticks to attack Valkyrie and I'm glad I got to read those panels as if it were the first time again because it's the best kind of goofy nonsense.
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Aug 27, 2019 22:12
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Dragonwagon posted:Bonus non-serious take: Ringo believes he's an rpg character, which is why he thinks he can achieve personal growth by killing people. Hey now, Ringo already fixed his childhood diseases by levelling up. He's got it figured out.
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Aug 27, 2019 22:13
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GimmickMan posted:Really though, I wouldn't have minded that happening again, what sat unwell with me was that Gyro pulling it off was directly inspired by the lunatic gunman who forced people into duels teaching him a valuable life lesson about going his own way. And that part is still there, in-universe explanation aside so... Oh well. Moving on. I mean, it's not like he fully adapted Ringo's philosophy. He just managed to find a nugget of gold in a heap of trash.
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Aug 28, 2019 11:40
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The thing with Ringo is that he and his philosophy are not necessarily portrayed as being morally good. When he talks about Johnny having a "dark determination" I don't think we are supposed to think that that's the sign of a good person. And to me that's one of the better things about SBR; sure, we know we are following the "good guys", because they get pitted against a secretive conspiracy that is very much willing to murder people in order to silence them in the pursuit of greater power. But from his flashback we know Johnny is kind of a selfish rear end in a top hat, and he's in the race just because he thinks he might find a way to walk again. Gyro is only really trying to save the kid not just because it's unjust, but moreso because he is the one scheduled to kill him, it's because of his personal involvement in injustice. There's a lot of grey morality in SBR and for me that makes for a better story.
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Aug 28, 2019 11:50
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Yeah, Johnny's dark determination isn't meant to be a positive trait. One interesting tidbit about Ringo that gets mentioned in the description of Mandom is that he doesn't actually need to use the pocket-watch to activate Mandom, its just a limitation he placed on himself assumingly to "play fair".
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Aug 28, 2019 16:57
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Speaking of grey morality, I don't think Mountain Tim's affection for Lucy is particularly portrayed as justified, either as a "Japanese thing" or an "old timey thing". Steven has been quite intentionally shown to have an entirely platonic love for her, and the age difference between them has been pointed out as not normal. Lucy was thankful for the rescue, but rejected Tim's advances. At the same time, his affection isn't really explicitly condemned either, but that's because - incidentally - he dies. Before this, Mountain Tim had been portrayed as pretty much nothing but a good, honest and skilled man. Turns out he wasn't necessarily a paragon of virtue after all, which shouldn't really come as a shock if it weren't for him being a comic book character. Soon after he was shown to have this (dark? grey?) side to him, he was killed off as a direct result of him acting on it, and even endangering Lucy by tightly hugging her. Intentional? Dunno.
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Aug 28, 2019 19:56
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Considering the other people that eventually creep on Lucy are all villains, yeah I don't think Araki wanted us to think Mountain Tim was that much of a cool dude at the end of it all.
Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 20:59 on Aug 28, 2019 |
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Aug 28, 2019 20:55
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There's a bit we'll get to next week where it becomes... kind of an issue. Mountain Tim is weird even if you can find ways to explain it, but it's not gonna get better. Not trying to discuss future stuff, so that's all I'll say.
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Aug 28, 2019 21:03
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the Dark DeterminationTM seems to be a trait that araki is making with the joestars the concept as a keyword comes up in other parts
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Aug 28, 2019 21:14
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tiistai posted:Speaking of grey morality, I don't think Mountain Tim's affection for Lucy is particularly portrayed as justified, either as a "Japanese thing" or an "old timey thing". Steven has been quite intentionally shown to have an entirely platonic love for her, and the age difference between them has been pointed out as not normal. Lucy was thankful for the rescue, but rejected Tim's advances. At the same time, his affection isn't really explicitly condemned either, but that's because - incidentally - he dies. he considered her the love of his life and that if he could have the love of a good woman (her) he would be content in every other aspect of his life. He acted selfishly and recklessly in trying to convince lucy to be with him, and she remained loyal to her husband regardless. He was corned by the president's assshole and chose to die rather than betray her, but his selfishness with regard to the hug gave her away anyway. Idiot died for nothing. I look at the whole situation as him making an inappropriate pass at her, and then choosing to sacrifice himself on her behalf to regain his honor and goodness. I thought it was all fine in the context of the story
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Aug 28, 2019 21:18
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It's weird, I remembered Mountain Tim making more than three appearances, also remembered Oh! Lonesome Me doing even crazier poo poo.
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Aug 29, 2019 01:02
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Gaaaah I hate the cliffhangers I wanna read mooooooooooooore
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Aug 29, 2019 02:16
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Stay strong, otherwise you'll binge it all on day one and feel too awkward to participate for fear of dropping spoilers
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Aug 29, 2019 02:28
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I love the close up face shots Araki does in this part. This one stands out to me as especially nice. 
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Aug 29, 2019 03:02
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i love johnny, he looks so cool
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Aug 29, 2019 03:27
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I feel like you can get a pretty clear reading of The True Man's World when Gyro sees his father basically tell him the same thing about sentimentality and Gyro tells him to gently caress off. That and with "Welcome....to the true man's world..." Gyro doesn't look like he accomplished something good or cool. He looks like he just did something dirty and awful. This was also the first time that we've seen Gyro do the same thing that Johnny does where they scream the other one's name, and Johnny almost getting killed is the thing that made it more personal to him. His sentimentality ended up winning the fight, in the end.
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Aug 29, 2019 03:50
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Aug 29, 2019 06:52
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NickRoweFillea posted:I love the close up face shots Araki does in this part. This one stands out to me as especially nice. I'm reading SBR in black and white because I have a thing for what the original material was like, but I don't mind the coloured scans. Something feels off here though, and I can't put my finger on what. Might be the darker skintone used? The same panel in B&W gives me more of a 1000-yard-stare vibe. 
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Aug 29, 2019 10:52
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Now that I've caught up, is it cool to say who's corpse it is now? I feel like that bit with Blackmore is pretty much a reveal at this point.
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Aug 31, 2019 03:52
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BaDandy posted:Now that I've caught up, is it cool to say who's corpse it is now? I feel like that bit with Blackmore is pretty much a reveal at this point. If you didnt realize it's that guy by now idk like idk
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Aug 31, 2019 04:58
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A "saint" from 1900 years ago...? ... ... Nah, couldn't be...
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Aug 31, 2019 05:00
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you're right. we should recognize the corpse of saint james the greater as is only proper
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Aug 31, 2019 05:01
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I'm pretty sure it's Aphrodisius, who after being decapitated by pagans, picked up his head and walked home.
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Aug 31, 2019 05:11
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