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I started with Slackware on a stack of floppies.  As far as “not having a stable ABI” no OS has a stable ABI. Nvidia Windows drivers are notorious for breaking between Windows updates. If Nvidia gave any amount of care, they would stop trying to use a nasty wrapper that allows them to shoehorn their Windows driver on the kernel.
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Aug 31, 2019 05:24
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:no one gives a gently caress about grandma she likes her iPhone and her LTE Android tablet the dirtbag Verizon salesman talked her into buying instead of a new Jetpack
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Aug 31, 2019 05:42
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ratbert90 posted:I started with Slackware on a stack of floppies. you don't read posts do you
linux is the only operating system ever to become commercially relevant where driver abis change on every single point release edit: to be clear i am not asserting that it is good or bad that the linux abi is unstable, only that it is unusual. no other succesful commercial os has ever done this.
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Aug 31, 2019 05:42
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pseudorandom name posted:she likes her iPhone and her LTE Android tablet the dirtbag Verizon salesman talked her into buying instead of a new Jetpack the only android tablet user ever found in the wild
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Aug 31, 2019 05:42
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The only reason for Nvidia on an Linux is if you want to do compute, and the cuda stuff works fine.
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Aug 31, 2019 05:43
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:you don't read posts do you Lol at Solaris. we are talking about Desktop operating systems here chief. If you want a stable Linux ABI for 5+ years you go with CentOS/RHEL. If you want hardware that just works, get hardware that has drivers in the mainline kernel such as AMD Vega cards.
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Aug 31, 2019 05:44
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ratbert90 posted:Lol at Solaris. we are talking about Desktop operating systems here chief. it was a historical discussion. solaris used to be a desktop operating system. hell i had solaris desktops at work for many years. i even had a solaris (x86) laptop. i almost adopted solaris at home when the "nevada" drops with early zfs happened and boy i feel like a dodged a bullet on that one ratbert90 posted:If you want a stable Linux ABI for 5+ years you go with CentOS/RHEL. yes, the linux upstream obsession with breaking the abi has created a multi-billion dollar business in providing a stable abi that say something about what customers want versus what kernel developers wish to provide again, it's not a normative judgment. i am not saying it is bad that the kernel devs wish to break abi compatibility on a regular basis. but the facts are that they do, and there is a lot of money in creating a stable abi. whether it makes sense for that money to be concentrated in the hands of Red Hat and SuSE is a different question.
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Aug 31, 2019 05:47
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spankmeister posted:The only reason for Nvidia on an Linux is if you want to do compute, and the cuda stuff works fine. cad on linux is a non-zero market. just as an example, many of the big three contractors surrounding detroit had a lot of unix-specific tooling around their cad poo poo, and they remain reluctant to port to windows to this day. there's a certain amount of money in cad/cam on linux, and nvidia gets 100% of the gpu side of that market theatre displays on linux is a significant amount of money for nvidia -- handling projectors and poo poo in a big loving auditorium. this is the major reason nvidia drivers handle multi-monitor worth a drat oil/gas proprietary poo poo historically ran on irix and hp-ux and has been ported to linux, and requires a 100% compliant opengl stack -- that's another nvidia market there are a lot of weird little niches where nvidia makes money on the linux market, and that's why they plow effort into the drivers it is 100% definitely not for the benefit of the linux neckbeard home desktop market
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Aug 31, 2019 05:50
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yeah, make no mistake, nvidia graphics on linux is pretty big business, most likely rivaling all other workstation linux use in value (though there may be niches here that are hard to account for, but there wont be a lot of money in the hobbyist + development machine market). plus of course what "gpu compute" means today is literally nvidia gpus in linux rackmounts. i haven't fiddled with the nvidia driver for a couple of years, but it is running a lot of stuff out there, and a lot of money is spent on stuff relying on it, so i don't expect they have broken it in some very dramatic way or i think we'd have heard about it from an nvidia earnings call by now.
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Aug 31, 2019 10:01
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using cuda doesnt even require a lot of x11 stuff. pretty sure the people here are talking about drivers in relation to video games and poo poo my dude
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Aug 31, 2019 11:21
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nvidia drivers are good as long as your linux desktop is a headless vm
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Aug 31, 2019 11:22
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feel free to skip the second sentence and focus on the first. if two things being mentioned in one post are too many to keep track of.
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Aug 31, 2019 12:59
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this is the desktop linux thread which is what people are discussing hth
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Aug 31, 2019 13:57
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pram posted:this is the desktop linux thread which is what people are discussing hth there's 642 pages of it, it's obvious it's not just about desktop linux
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Aug 31, 2019 14:51
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refusing to notice what people want to do and instead discussing server poo poo and operating systems only 30 people have ever used is the most linux thing
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Aug 31, 2019 14:52
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check out this nerd using desktop linux  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kddqINA1vOA
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Aug 31, 2019 14:54
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If you want to use desktop Linux with Nvidia just disable kernel updates or use a LTS kernel. 
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Aug 31, 2019 15:20
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akadajet posted:check out this nerd using desktop linux https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE5u96KK35k
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Aug 31, 2019 15:53
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ratbert90 posted:If you want to use desktop Linux with Nvidia just disable kernel updates or use a LTS kernel. latest kernel with nvidia never seems to be broken on arch linux
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Aug 31, 2019 16:12
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ratbert90 posted:If you want to use desktop Linux with Nvidia just disable kernel updates or use a LTS kernel. don't cut yourself on the bleeding edge ! ! !
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Aug 31, 2019 17:07
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long term kernel versions are: 3.16 4.4 4.9 4.14 4.19 It’s almost like the mainline kernel developers realize that there is a need for a stable long term ABI and maintain several kernel versions with a guarantee of a stable ABI while at the same time developing new kernel versions without that guarantee. If you want a stable ABI feel free to download any of those kernel versions. They are even listed in Kernel.org and many distributions including Fedora and CentOS/RHEL offer packages!
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Aug 31, 2019 18:31
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I’m glad I use operating systems where I don’t have to give a poo poo about kernel versions
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Aug 31, 2019 18:33
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akadajet posted:I’m glad I use operating systems where I don’t have to give a poo poo about kernel versions I use Fedora with AMD and haven’t cared about kernel versions in over a year.
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Aug 31, 2019 18:34
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you have to do more hardware compatibility research with desktop Linux than you have to for hackintosh installs
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Aug 31, 2019 18:36
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gonn start a “linuxes for sure” certification business
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Aug 31, 2019 18:43
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i like how no matter which os you use, you still have to mess with it a bunch to make it usable, after decades of experience designing oses
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Aug 31, 2019 19:00
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akadajet posted:you have to do more hardware compatibility research with desktop Linux than you have to for hackintosh installs biggest lie in this thread who the fucks can be bothered to do a hackintosh install, it's computer people's walk to canossa
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Aug 31, 2019 19:54
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Tankakern posted:biggest lie in this thread it just works
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Aug 31, 2019 19:55
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Broken Machine posted:i like how no matter which os you use, you still have to mess with it a bunch to make it usable, after decades of experience designing oses Last time I installed Windows, i had to install 2 things other than apps to get it going 100%. MSI tool that scanned my hardware and downloaded the drivers, and the Nvidia driver. Both will keep themselves updated if I let them. Linux(Fedora) just needed the Nvidia driver, which requires shutting down the GUI completely and installing it from the cli. You must do this every time the kernel updates, which seems to be about monthly.
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Aug 31, 2019 20:15
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Silver Alicorn posted:I started on mandrake Linux slackware lol. everything after seemed so easy ratbert90 posted:I started with Slackware on a stack of floppies. nice! i think i still remember the nic version I had to track down the source for and compile to get online
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Aug 31, 2019 21:14
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RFC2324 posted:Linux(Fedora) just needed the Nvidia driver, which requires shutting down the GUI completely and installing it from the cli. You must do this every time the kernel updates, which seems to be about monthly. everything just works in kubuntu with the nvidia binary drivers, across kernel updates maybe you should use something better than fedora
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Aug 31, 2019 22:14
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ratbert90 posted:long term kernel versions are: abis are not guaranteed to be stable between any releases a driver compiled on 3.16.0 is not guaranteed, or even likely, to work in 3.16.73
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Aug 31, 2019 22:17
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pram posted:using cuda doesnt even require a lot of x11 stuff. pretty sure the people here are talking about drivers in relation to video games and poo poo my dude i just listed a bunch of commercial reasons for nvidia to have good x11 and opengl support
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Aug 31, 2019 22:18
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Vomik posted:gonn start a “linuxes for sure” certification business akadajet posted:you have to do more hardware compatibility research with desktop Linux than you have to for hackintosh installs dell and lenovo both already do this for you almost any hardware will work, but dell and lenovo are happy to sell "certified" skus that cost extra
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Aug 31, 2019 22:19
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Agile Vector posted:i think i still remember the nic version I had to track down the source for and compile to get online I had to get the source for X11 and then email the developers to get a patch for my graphics card and then spend a day compiling it from source, back in the day. S3 Virge UV or some poo poo back in 1997. Redhat 3.0.3 for me, CD that came in the back of a book.
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Aug 31, 2019 23:35
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feedmegin posted:Redhat 3.0.3
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Aug 31, 2019 23:38
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feedmegin posted:I had to get the source for X11 and then email the developers to get a patch for my graphics card and then spend a day compiling it from source, back in the day. S3 Virge UV or some poo poo back in 1997. i had a boxed copy of redhat 5.2, from back when linux was a thing you could buy in a store at the time i was a freebsd user so red hat was not all that impressive edit: unlike freebsd, however, redhat worked well on my laptop. and it had sound. so i lived with linux for the sake of portability Notorious b.s.d. fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Aug 31, 2019 |
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Aug 31, 2019 23:42
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redhat used to come with motif and cde if you bought the boxed copy
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Aug 31, 2019 23:43
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Notorious b.s.d. posted:the only android tablet user ever found in the wild I have a Galaxy Tab S2 personally. Also apparently quite a lot of people buy those Amazon Fire things.
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Aug 31, 2019 23:45
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Lysidas posted:everything just works in kubuntu with the nvidia binary drivers, across kernel updates honestly I just assume I have to reinstall the driver every time out of habit it worked with the built in drivers, but was slow on a few games
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Sep 1, 2019 00:21
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