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Re: the issue of public companies only giving a poo poo about next quarter's profits, and thereby jeopardizing long-term productivity Would it be possible for a company to restrict its stock such that there's a minimum holding period? If you had to hold for a year prior to selling, maybe it would diminish that effect.
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Aug 31, 2019 18:52
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Cicero posted:Re: the issue of public companies only giving a poo poo about next quarter's profits, and thereby jeopardizing long-term productivity This has been done. It's called "long term capital gains" and its mechanism of operation is receiving favorable tax treatment.
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Aug 31, 2019 18:54
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Ghost Leviathan posted:We have the technology to solve climate change, we've had it for years. Nobody in charge wants to use it because it means number not go up. While I'm not going to accept this without major supporting evidence, I can believe it in theory. I watched a very grim TED talk some time ago that very firmly said that capitalism would continue unchanged until it hit a point of environmental collapse that made indifference to the environment no longer the most profitable path. I can very easily see the oligarchs who run the world continuing to drive things into the ground until the well goes dry (literally and figuratively), then suddenly have the advent of "miracle" technology that changes everything. The part that people don't understand is that capitalisms flaws are not (just) about bad actors - it's structural. The nature of the system *demands* that immediate profit be constantly maximized, without regard for consequences, until such is no longer possible. If not, company B will exploit harder than company A and company A will go out of business. The only way around it is to impose regulations, but that pisses off capital and they will use their vast power to remove all regulations over time in the name of, you guessed it, bigger numbers. I think that there should be a betting pool where people guess who is going to be blamed for the state of the world once we arrive at the point where not even the hard-core deniers can ignore it anymore - it certainly won't be capitalism. I'll split my wager between "socialism" and "poor brown people somewhere"
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Aug 31, 2019 19:34
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How are u posted:Discendo Vox is a well-known denier who believes that 1) climate change isn't going to be so bad and 2) things will get better because technology will solve it! Don't even bother, he's been run out of climate threads for a reason. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't make poo poo up about me.
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Aug 31, 2019 19:40
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JustJeff88 posted:While I'm not going to accept this without major supporting evidence Nuclear power plants have existed in usable form for like 50 years. If you're willing to spend way more money and resources and build enough hydro storage to cause a moderate environmental disaster of its own then renewables are in principle possible to build out sufficiently.
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Aug 31, 2019 20:20
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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JustJeff88 posted:While I'm not going to accept this without major supporting evidence, I can believe it in theory. I watched a very grim TED talk some time ago that very firmly said that capitalism would continue unchanged until it hit a point of environmental collapse that made indifference to the environment no longer the most profitable path. I can very easily see the oligarchs who run the world continuing to drive things into the ground until the well goes dry (literally and figuratively), then suddenly have the advent of "miracle" technology that changes everything. US conservatives already say that there's no point in going green because of India and China, ignoring the reality that those countries are already greener than us and performing huge carbon reduction efforts. Rest assured that those same people will still be blaming Africa and Asia for decades to come
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Aug 31, 2019 20:37
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Cicero posted:Re: the issue of public companies only giving a poo poo about next quarter's profits, and thereby jeopardizing long-term productivity It's not only publicly traded companies, though? Koch Industries isn't any better, for example.
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Aug 31, 2019 21:16
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Motronic posted:This has been done. It's called "long term capital gains" and its mechanism of operation is receiving favorable tax treatment. Seriously. People and corporations respond to incentives. That's both econ 101 and psych 101. If you want corporations to care about climate change then give them tax breaks for caring about climate change. They'll be lining up around the block to care about climate change the hardest. I mean there are other incentives and "clean up your poo poo or we punish you severely" is probably part of it as well but if taking care of this rock suddenly becomes profitable you'll see a lot more of it.
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Aug 31, 2019 23:20
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Seriously. People and corporations respond to incentives. That's both econ 101 and psych 101. If you want corporations to care about climate change then give them tax breaks for caring about climate change. They'll be lining up around the block to care about climate change the hardest. I mean there are other incentives and "clean up your poo poo or we punish you severely" is probably part of it as well but if taking care of this rock suddenly becomes profitable you'll see a lot more of it. This probably does need to be balanced with the fact that we absolutely need companies to be paying their fair share in taxes to be able to provide basic services that everyone should have access to, like healthcare and employment insurance, or even a broad UBI. The situation we have right now where "tax incentives" lead to companies like Amazon or Wal-Mart paying single digit tax percentages or even negative tax percentages is insane and unsustainable.
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Sep 1, 2019 01:06
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https://news.yahoo.com/kmart-sears-closing-additional-stores-040526976.htmlquote:Weeks after announcing 26 Sears and Kmart locations would close in October, nearly 100 additional stores are facing a similar fate in December or sooner. Just quadrupling the store closures.
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Sep 1, 2019 02:38
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OhFunny posted:https://news.yahoo.com/kmart-sears-closing-additional-stores-040526976.html ESL is just finishing his staggered corporate vulturism - no biggie.
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Sep 1, 2019 02:44
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OhFunny posted:https://news.yahoo.com/kmart-sears-closing-additional-stores-040526976.html I went to the Kmart in West Columbia very recently because I assumed it was going to be closed despite not being on the last list. Turns out I was right. Shame, really, as far as South Carolina Kmarts go that location was doing better than the recently-closed store in Sumter, in that it actually had a moderate amount of cars in the parking lot. I was a given decent example of why no shops at Kmart anymore when I decided to buy a case of ramen that cost thirty cents more than at Aldi despite Aldi giving you twice as much ramen as Kmart does. zetamind2000 fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 13:03
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Seriously. People and corporations respond to incentives. That's both econ 101 and psych 101. If you want corporations to care about climate change then give them tax breaks for caring about climate change. They'll be lining up around the block to care about climate change the hardest. I mean there are other incentives and "clean up your poo poo or we punish you severely" is probably part of it as well but if taking care of this rock suddenly becomes profitable you'll see a lot more of it. We're well past the incentives stage, which would maybe have been useful like 30-40 years. This also ignores the fact that some industries need to either die (lots of consumer industries, fast fashion, high-turnover electronics) or become fundamentally restructured (agriculture, fishing). Also, simply by having large corporations around, you're risking the fact that all of your relatively small nudges and incentives are going to be stymied/reversed. The problem with Econ 101/MVT/micro approaches is that they ignore all of those higher-order effects of capital on politics and the economy (capital in the Marxist sense, not the econ sense).
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Sep 1, 2019 17:11
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Pembroke Fuse posted:We're well past the incentives stage, which would maybe have been useful like 30-40 years. This also ignores the fact that some industries need to either die (lots of consumer industries, fast fashion, high-turnover electronics) or become fundamentally restructured (agriculture, fishing). Also, simply by having large corporations around, you're risking the fact that all of your relatively small nudges and incentives are going to be stymied/reversed.
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Sep 2, 2019 05:01
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My Sears is finally closing later this year. F
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Sep 3, 2019 22:09
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The writing's pretty much on the wall for the low income every-man mall experience. Even if your Sears, K-Mart, or JC Penney isn't closed yet, death hangs in the air. People probably can and do rob them blind, as literally no one is on the floor to serve customers except in the POS transaction islands. The remaining successful malls (we have three or so in Greater Seattle) are offering "experiences," generally "high end" offerings to cater to how desolate of interesting things boomtown Seattle can be, and give you somewhere to spend your coding money on with your growing family. Food courts with no restaurants you've ever heard of, with bars, for the people with really nothing to do on a Friday night. Tesla stores. Lots of sweets shops and fairly elaborate play areas (giant-size chess does look fun). Ritzy movie theaters with food service and liquor. Mid and low-tier department stores are on the skids, but Nordstrom's, which sells in some cases the exact same stuff for like four times as much (how much can a pair of chinos cost? sky's the limit), is doing pretty good, despite... Interesting Christmas finance results. It's a clothing department store with a bar. Everything you got at Sears et al you are now expected to pick up online. That space belongs to Amazon and has for some years. I can't say it's not fun, but the gold-trimmed mall experience is gaudy as gently caress. It's still weird to me as a millennial who grew up with KB Toys and places where they let you play the games enough that I almost beat Sonic 1 without ever owning it. When JC Penney and Sears were actually treated as premiere experiences to some extent. Name Change fucked around with this message at 22:39 on Sep 3, 2019 |
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Sep 3, 2019 22:31
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Sodomy Hussein posted:The writing's pretty much on the wall for the low income every-man mall experience. Even if your Sears, K-Mart, or JC Penney isn't closed yet, death hangs in the air. People probably can and do rob them blind, as literally no one is on the floor to serve customers except in the POS transaction islands. Look, sometimes I don't want to get all gussied up to go to Walmart, so I just head to the Dollar General.
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Sep 4, 2019 02:37
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Sodomy Hussein posted:The writing's pretty much on the wall for the low income every-man mall experience. Even if your Sears, K-Mart, or JC Penney isn't closed yet, death hangs in the air. People probably can and do rob them blind, as literally no one is on the floor to serve customers except in the POS transaction islands. Nordstrom’s isn’t really a bad store - they sell clothes that you can wear for years and if you need a nice suit for job interviews they even do tailoring. They aren’t selling the same garbage as Macy’s or JC Penny. Also it’s kind of weird to knock on movie theaters that sell food and whatnot, it’s kind of nice.
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Sep 4, 2019 03:00
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Solkanar512 posted:Nordstrom’s isn’t really a bad store - they sell clothes that you can wear for years and if you need a nice suit for job interviews they even do tailoring. They aren’t selling the same garbage as Macy’s or JC Penny. It's not really meant as a knock on either Nord or movie theaters. I've gotten good stuff from Nordstrom, yes. It's certainly better for everybody than going to a dead mall, and way better than 10 years ago when malls were overrun with cash for gold scams. Dinner & a movie models are so common now that iPic, which tried to carve out the high-end space, went bankrupt. Name Change fucked around with this message at 03:34 on Sep 4, 2019 |
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Sep 4, 2019 03:32
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Is Nordstrom even really considered high-end retail? They've always seemed like maybe half a step above a store like Macy's, but they basically run the same model of offering discounts through either semi-annual sales or rewards cards. I've never had the impression that they occupied a similar space to luxury retailers like Bloomingdale's.
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Sep 4, 2019 14:42
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Nordstrom is Baby's First Luxury Department Store. It doesn't compare to the deep end of that arena, but is generally the first transition between middle-middle class shopping and "high end". At least that was always my take.
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Sep 4, 2019 14:52
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Nordstorm for the class traitors, Nordstorm Rack for those aspiring.
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Sep 4, 2019 15:06
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Paradoxish posted:Is Nordstrom even really considered high-end retail? They've always seemed like maybe half a step above a store like Macy's, but they basically run the same model of offering discounts through either semi-annual sales or rewards cards. I've never had the impression that they occupied a similar space to luxury retailers like Bloomingdale's. Every "high-end department store" - Bloomingdale's, Saks, Neiman Marcus, whatever - does a couple of sales per year, and runs a loyalty program with an associated credit card. There's still quite a bit of difference between that section of the market (which includes Nordstrom) and the 'everything switches between "40% off" and "buy one get one free" forever' model. Nordstrom has been a lot more willing to move downmarket than many of their competitors; they were way out in front on both the "lower service, lower price outlet" model, as well as the "why stock those outlets with expensive old stuff from mainline stores when we could use cheaper goods that go straight there?" trend. In the mainline Nordstrom stores, a lot depends on location. The big stores - say, in Seattle or NYC - have all the five-figure designer goods any plutocrat could ever want. But they'll keep a smaller store in a marginal market open with cheaper items, where other high-end retailers wouldn't sully their brand by touching it at all. A lot of that probably goes back to their history as a PNW regional player. There's not much regional space for ultra-high-end merchandise outside of Seattle and Portland - if Nordstrom wanted to expand, they had to have stores that could survive in Spokane, or Salem, or Tacoma. HootTheOwl posted:Nordstorm for the class traitors, Nordstorm Rack for those aspiring. At least in Seattle it feels like it's the other way around. Nordstrom and leased Maseratis are for people who really want to look like they've got piles of cash. But if you say "nice shirt" to strike up a conversation with somebody who takes home a high six figure salary they'll probably tell you all about how they got it at the Rack (and regular Nordstrom is just too expensive, really, they are frugal like you).
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Sep 4, 2019 16:15
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Space Gopher posted:In the mainline Nordstrom stores, a lot depends on location. The big stores - say, in Seattle or NYC - have all the five-figure designer goods any plutocrat could ever want. But they'll keep a smaller store in a marginal market open with cheaper items, where other high-end retailers wouldn't sully their brand by touching it at all. A lot of that probably goes back to their history as a PNW regional player. There's not much regional space for ultra-high-end merchandise outside of Seattle and Portland - if Nordstrom wanted to expand, they had to have stores that could survive in Spokane, or Salem, or Tacoma. Yeah regular Nordstrom and the flagship Nordstrom in downtown Seattle are two different experiences. One shouldn't go into the flagship Nordstrom dressed like a peasant.
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Sep 4, 2019 16:20
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Space Gopher posted:and leased Maseratis are It's amusing to me that many of us are probably thinking about the same Maserati.
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Sep 4, 2019 16:59
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Thier other car has a vanity plate that references the Maserati but I can't remember what exactly it is.
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Sep 4, 2019 17:06
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I went to the Sears in San Bruno earlier this week. The store actually looked decently stocked on the main floor, and there were staff on the floor that weren't behind an island. Part of the lower floor was closed off and the furniture looked a bit more spaced out, but the stock levels looked similar to where I used to work in the UK. It wouldn't surprise me one bit if it was an anomaly. There were people in the store but the car park was mostly empty.
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Sep 5, 2019 22:36
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I wishh target would die as fast as sears did
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Sep 7, 2019 05:55
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:I wishh target would die as fast as sears did How dare you. Target at least has some good poo poo and is way better than wall mart.
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Sep 7, 2019 06:06
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LionArcher posted:How dare you. Target at least has some good poo poo and is way better than wall mart. Yeah they hire mentally disabled people to push carts and pay em like $2.00 an hr i cant get behind that. Target sees mentally disabled people as cheap labor and its a loving crime.
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Sep 7, 2019 06:13
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So does Walmart, and every other capitalist venture
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Sep 7, 2019 06:22
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SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:So does Walmart, and every other capitalist venture Right, and the stores at least have okay prices on a lot of stuff, and I’m sorry, I want at least one box store around before everything goes to Amazon, which treats its workers like poo poo too.
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Sep 7, 2019 07:06
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Costco at least pays a good wage and benefits even if it's ultimately part of the same capitalist machine as everywhere else
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Sep 7, 2019 07:08
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QuarkJets posted:Costco at least pays a good wage and benefits even if it's ultimately part of the same capitalist machine as everywhere else Costco is not a big box store. Costco is church.
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Sep 7, 2019 07:09
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LionArcher posted:Costco is not a big box store. Costco is church. Everyone always raves about Costco, but it seems like most of the savings are on processed foods. I can get milk, meat, and produce at better prices at higher quality so I really don't get it.
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Sep 7, 2019 07:14
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ellspurs posted:I went to the Sears in San Bruno earlier this week. The store actually looked decently stocked on the main floor, and there were staff on the floor that weren't behind an island. Part of the lower floor was closed off and the furniture looked a bit more spaced out, but the stock levels looked similar to where I used to work in the UK. I was in that one a few months ago and it was so dead quiet that it was creepy. No music playing, weird-rear end combinations of things by the register (bottled water, cans of roach killer, and dollar underpants), no employees anywhere except registers, etc. Maybe I caught them during a bad time, because your description sounds nothing like when I was there.
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Sep 7, 2019 07:18
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Sundae posted:I was in that one a few months ago and it was so dead quiet that it was creepy. No music playing, weird-rear end combinations of things by the register (bottled water, cans of roach killer, and dollar underpants), no employees anywhere except registers, etc. Maybe I caught them during a bad time, because your description sounds nothing like when I was there. Same when i went into one during closing. The only people there were old fucks taking advantage of the buy 1 get 10,000 free poo poo deals on yankee candles. Other than those chained to the registers 1 employee walked the floor dispelling shoplifters looting the place in the final days. It feels like walking into the apocalypse. Pile of shelving units im the corner like corpses
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Sep 7, 2019 07:24
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Beachcomber posted:Everyone always raves about Costco, but it seems like most of the savings are on processed foods. I can get milk, meat, and produce at better prices at higher quality so I really don't get it. Ours is like, $0.30/gallon cheaper (or more) for gas. It's insane. And in general you'll get a better price on household stuff than Amazon, if you're able to use things in bulk
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Sep 7, 2019 07:44
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:Same when i went into one during closing. The only people there were old fucks taking advantage of the buy 1 get 10,000 free poo poo deals on yankee candles. Those were always fun and surprisingly good at times. I remember that we wouldn't really get told what new sales were starting until we actually opened. I actually liked that job quite a bit, but keeping up with all of the new sales got kind of tiring after a while.
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Sep 7, 2019 07:49
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Sundae posted:I was in that one a few months ago and it was so dead quiet that it was creepy. No music playing, weird-rear end combinations of things by the register (bottled water, cans of roach killer, and dollar underpants), no employees anywhere except registers, etc. Maybe I caught them during a bad time, because your description sounds nothing like when I was there. That sounds like the perfect place for apocalypse prep impulse boys.
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Sep 7, 2019 08:13
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