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Rehabilitation in lieu of punishment is a very important step in reforming or prison and legal system, that goes for sex crime too. I'm not mourning anyone who kills themselves because they're outed as sexual abusers, but I am mourning the lost potential to give someone help, even if we might feel like they deserved their fate in the midst of reasonable anger.
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Sep 1, 2019 21:24
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Lord Stimperor posted:"boy, I can't wait until the people I text turn 18 so they can sext me", I think as I'm having a completely normal day
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Sep 1, 2019 21:27
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Relevant Twitter thread. https://twitter.com/spiantado/status/1167918514851610624
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Sep 1, 2019 21:28
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OP your username is sick
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Sep 1, 2019 21:29
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Relevant Twitter thread. This reminds me of when AMC had an "independent investigation" of Chris Hardwick except they outsourced it to a company owned by his wife's family
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Sep 1, 2019 21:30
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Thanks, Stabmaster. Only one other goon has ever recognized the reference.
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Sep 1, 2019 21:32
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There's a really weird desire these people seem to have to sublimate their morality to legality. If it's illegal, it's bad. If it's legal (even and especially technically), it's good. Apparently for this person it even extends to if you're not arrested you're good, because the law hasn't yet said otherwise. You see it with these people who cry endlessly to please just let the legal system handle it. It's super weird!! Please develop your own moral framework, and use it.
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Sep 1, 2019 21:35
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DC Murderverse posted:oh there should still be punishment for those people i'm not saying simply saying "sorry" is enough, but i'm also not saying that everyone who abused someone should kill themselves. Black Griffon posted:Rehabilitation in lieu of punishment is a very important step in reforming or prison and legal system, that goes for sex crime too. I'm not mourning anyone who kills themselves because they're outed as sexual abusers, but I am mourning the lost potential to give someone help, even if we might feel like they deserved their fate in the midst of reasonable anger. Lol at the guy thinking predators of children have value somehow
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Sep 1, 2019 21:38
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I'll be honest, I really don't know why I'm supposed to feel bad a rapist killed himself because he was exposed except the fact that he won't get justice in court (which he probably wouldn't).
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Sep 1, 2019 21:38
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OK. New policy for this thread that I, Palpek, Beet Wagon and Reene will be adhering to. This is a touchy subject and rightfully a lot of anger is forming at the fact that games you love, developers/creators you looked up to are potentially tainted. Finding out so much horror and abuse occurs in the industry, especially for art that means something to you, is difficult to reconcile. I completely understand this as a number of things I have loved over the years have fallen to it and it causes you to re-evaluate how you approach things or figuring out whether you have a blind spot. However, defending musicians from the 70s sleeping with underage fans (??) as well as outright ignoring evidence of misdeeds from these people like some of the posters here is going to get you probated for at minimum a week and we will not be discerning. Nobody should be defending abuse of any kind. Nobody should be ignoring the victims. That has gone on too long and social media being a place where people can finally speak up about what they feel is a product of the system letting the rest of us down for too long. This is the nature of today's online world and this is what we live with. We accept that the victims are telling the truth. We believe them first and if others are joining them then it is not some shadowy cabal with a plan to take down famous developers. Let us have a bit of humanity and care about those wronged. Thank you kindly!
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Sep 1, 2019 21:38
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VideoGames posted:OK. New policy for this thread that I, Palpek, Beet Wagon and Reene will be adhering to. youre basically just saying 'feel free to come around for another attack run of your Stupid Bullshit, here take some time to think of what stupid bullshit you'd like to bring up next time' like you always do, whenever someone posts badly, in this forum.
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Sep 1, 2019 21:40
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Edit: Nevermind.
Roluth fucked around with this message at 21:46 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 21:43
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Endorph posted:lmao a week probation for saying all accusers are lying whores and bringing up literal gamergate talking points This is like the fifth time you've made this post in my extremely limited memory. In the chat thread specifically videogames responded. What punishments would you find appropriate? I'm not sure you've articulated that.
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Sep 1, 2019 21:45
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Arsenic Lupin posted:Relevant Twitter thread. yeah. the company will always look the other way if the monster is useful enough. i mean gently caress look at the goverment right now. if the NiTW people knew he was a shithead for awhile, than they should have cut content. plus the rear end in a top hat pretended to be a woke progressive. so gently caress that guy. Dapper_Swindler fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Sep 1, 2019 |
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Sep 1, 2019 21:45
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A week to start with seems fine? Plenty of room for escalation if it doesn't get the point across.
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Sep 1, 2019 21:45
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Prokhor posted:There's a really weird desire these people seem to have to sublimate their morality to legality. If it's illegal, it's bad. If it's legal (even and especially technically), it's good. Apparently for this person it even extends to if you're not arrested you're good, because the law hasn't yet said otherwise. You see it with these people who cry endlessly to please just let the legal system handle it. It’s because they’re authoritarian boot lickers whose sole issues with the system (if they have any) are that the boot could be a little more nicely flavored
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Sep 1, 2019 21:46
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OwlFancier posted:A week to start with seems fine? Plenty of room for escalation if it doesn't get the point across. yeah i think week, then month, then perma seems pretty good. although the guys who have come in here so far were so deep into the garbage that i'm not gonna complain if they never came back
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Sep 1, 2019 21:47
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Endorph posted:lmao a week probation for saying all accusers are lying whores and bringing up literal gamergate talking points I said week minimums as in where normally we would sixer stuff. This means if we would week it, then it would be even stronger. This thread is not going to be one where people can get away with it. The Games team was talking about what to do about these posts and sixers being weeks with everything else bumped up seemed appropriate.
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Sep 1, 2019 21:47
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Black Griffon posted:Rehabilitation in lieu of punishment is a very important step in reforming or prison and legal system, that goes for sex crime too. I'm not mourning anyone who kills themselves because they're outed as sexual abusers, but I am mourning the lost potential to give someone help, even if we might feel like they deserved their fate in the midst of reasonable anger. I want to agree with this but it has allowed people like Brock Turner to escape justice.
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Sep 1, 2019 21:48
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Prokhor posted:This is like the fifth time you've made this post in my extremely limited memory. In the chat thread specifically videogames responded. What punishments would you find appropriate? I'm not sure you've articulated that.
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Sep 1, 2019 21:48
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Prokhor posted:This is like the fifth time you've made this post in my extremely limited memory. In the chat thread specifically videogames responded. What punishments would you find appropriate? I'm not sure you've articulated that.
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Sep 1, 2019 21:49
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Panderfringe posted:An immediate permanent ban. What punishment for supporting abuse - an act which basically makes the supporter an abuser - do you think is reasonable? someone who's posting on his alt should maybe be a little more cautious about advocating for insta-permas
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Sep 1, 2019 21:50
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Panderfringe posted:An immediate permanent ban. What punishment for supporting abuse - an act which basically makes the supporter an abuser - do you think is reasonable? I appreciate the turnabout, and it's only fair to answer my own question. I think a ban is less useful than a probation, in the fact that it isn't timed. I think a week long probation is an appropriate first step, which is exactly what it is, a first step. E: I didn't notice the permanent part of the ban, my mistake. I'm wary of instant permas.
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Sep 1, 2019 21:51
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Endorph posted:well a ban for the dude who was dropping slurs and the other dude who was accusing zoe quinn of literal murder would be a good place to start? there have been a couple bans in this thread but not nearly enough. i dont care about the dudes who were being centrist-y both sides about this, but there's definitely people who seem like they deserve more than what they got. i think it's reasonable to be frustrated about that.
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Sep 1, 2019 21:56
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Endorph posted:it is not illegal for an adult to have sex with 18-19 year olds but a 34 year old married man seeking out 18 year old fans for sex is creepy, yes. it's not illegal. but something can be not illegal and still a lovely thing to do. the law isnt the sole arbiter of morality. Massive age differences (10- 15 years) in marriage is extremely common across the world and if you travel the globe especially in the east you will encounter it a lot. My niece whom was 19 met an 33 year old olympic swimmer on a trip to seychelles and absolutely fell in love with him. She got married without the approval of my sister whom disapproved of his culture and his religion but age was not a factor. When we finally got to meet him we found out he was a very nice man and we got to calling him philips because he was tall as a pine tree. Age differences in marriage is pretty common all the way from morocco to the china. Hell one of the most celebrated rulers in the Middle East, the Hashemites of Jordan, married one of their princess (Haya) to another ruler also celebrated in the west, the ruler of Dubai Mohammed bin Rashid. And he was in his loving 60s while she was at best in her early twenties.
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Sep 1, 2019 21:57
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Savy Saracen salad posted:Massive age differences (10- 15 years) in marriage is extremely common across the world and if you travel the globe especially in the east you will encounter it a lot.
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Sep 1, 2019 22:00
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Panderfringe posted:This isn't a crime you can rehabilitate someone out of. Abusers will always be abusers. If they don't receive official punishment then I'm cool with alternative methods. And honestly you should be too. Perhaps it's because I come from a country with one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world, but this kind of absolutism is counterproductive. That rehabilitation works is a fact, and that fact doesn't somehow not apply to sex crime. The goal of outing abusers is prevention and protection, not punishment, and the goal of incarceration should not be principally punishment, but rehabilitation first, and if that doesn't work, humane imprisonment as a protective measure. All of this does not necessitate sympathy, but the wherewithal to see that a punitive mindset, while not always bad, doesn't lead to a good society in the long run. I'm not perfect, I smiled when I found out Epstein was dead (and I was sad because of the knowledge that died with him), I cheer when nazis get their asses kicked and I wanted to pop a bottle of champagne when that Koch brother died, and I know there's hypocrisy in my heart, but I also believe that there are better principles I can aspire to. One of them is that anyone, no matter what, should be given a chance at rehabilitation.
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Sep 1, 2019 22:02
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Savy Saracen salad posted:Massive age differences (10- 15 years) in marriage is extremely common across the world and if you travel the globe especially in the east you will encounter it a lot. Projared is American also arranged marriages between 60 year olds and 20 year olds are still creepy hth.
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Sep 1, 2019 22:02
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Savy Saracen salad posted:Massive age differences (10- 15 years) in marriage is extremely common across the world and if you travel the globe especially in the east you will encounter it a lot. sure but projarad didn't do that. he gas lit people and other poo poo. he also destoryed two marriages and than victim blamed.
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Sep 1, 2019 22:02
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Endorph posted:well a ban for the dude who was dropping slurs and the other dude who was accusing zoe quinn of literal murder would be a good place to start? there have been a couple bans in this thread but not nearly enough. i dont care about the dudes who were being centrist-y both sides about this, but there's definitely people who seem like they deserve more than what they got. i think it's reasonable to be frustrated about that. While I agree with you entirely, your snipes just come off as threadshitting and annoying.
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Sep 1, 2019 22:03
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Kchama posted:While I agree with you entirely, your snipes just come off as threadshitting and annoying.
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Sep 1, 2019 22:04
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I said come in! posted:I want to agree with this but it has allowed people like Brock Turner to escape justice. It probably didn't come across well in my previous post, also the thread moves fast right now, but I'm coming into this thread with a skewed Scandinavian perspective, where cases like Brock Turner is very obviously loving grotesque, and not at all what I'm after (not a snipe at you, just want to be abundantly clear).
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Sep 1, 2019 22:07
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I think rehabilitation, restitution and even reconciliation with victims is sometimes possible, all of which are deprived when the accused ends their own life. It's hard to look at what's going on now and say "driving bad men into such despair they kill themselves" was really the best or desired outcome.
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Sep 1, 2019 22:11
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Goddamn indie game developers loving gross as hell
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Sep 1, 2019 22:12
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Not ideal but I'd certainly prefer it over them just continuing to abuse and likely drive other people to suicide on occasion.
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Sep 1, 2019 22:12
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Prokhor posted:I appreciate the turnabout, and it's only fair to answer my own question. I think a ban is less useful than a probation, in the fact that it isn't timed. I think a week long probation is an appropriate first step, which is exactly what it is, a first step. I think that people posting pro gamergate conspiracy theories about how zoe quinn organized a shadowy cabal to cause a known sex pest to kill himself because she was jealous of them should in fact be permabanned and also fired out of a cannon into the sun, I'm not really sure what the benefit to the Something Awful Dot Com Forums is in keeping people like that around tbh. This isn't even a thing aimed at VideoGames in particular but it feels like chronically lovely posters get endless amounts of rope, and an infrequent ten dollar rear end in a top hat tax apparently just doesn't cut it anymore.
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Sep 1, 2019 22:15
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OwlFancier posted:Not ideal but I'd certainly prefer it over them just continuing to abuse and likely drive other people to suicide on occasion. Yeah I can't disagree with this. All that poo poo I said upthread requires a far better society than the one we live in now, until we improve society somewhat, death is also a prison I guess. Deep.
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Sep 1, 2019 22:16
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exquisite tea posted:"driving bad men into such despair they kill themselves" was really the best or desired outcome. Zoe Quinn didn't drive anybody to suicide.
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Sep 1, 2019 22:16
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quote:Vic Mignogna Holy crap, I saw this dude at an anime con in South Dakota in like 2009, the first con I ever went to, and while we were listening to him talk about FMA my buddy (a con veteran) was like, "Oh yeah btw, this dude is a huge loving creep"
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Sep 1, 2019 22:18
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Kai Tave posted:I think that people posting pro gamergate conspiracy theories about how zoe quinn organized a shadowy cabal to cause a known sex pest to kill himself because she was jealous of them should in fact be permabanned and also fired out of a cannon into the sun, I'm not really sure what the benefit to the Something Awful Dot Com Forums is in keeping people like that around tbh. This isn't even a thing aimed at VideoGames in particular but it feels like chronically lovely posters get endless amounts of rope, and an infrequent ten dollar rear end in a top hat tax apparently just doesn't cut it anymore. Well, too bad; that guy got a day. I'm sure it'll teach him, tho
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Sep 1, 2019 22:34
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