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the real culprit isn't EDH so much as #mtgfinance, considering that godsire is probably garbage even if you build around the theme.
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Sep 2, 2019 23:22
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Elyv posted:the real culprit isn't EDH so much as #mtgfinance, considering that godsire is probably garbage even if you build around the theme. If it were finance, wouldn’t the jump happen when decklists go out and not after release? I’m a casual player just now buying upgrades.
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Sep 2, 2019 23:48
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Played my first ever game of M:tG tonight. I quite enjoyed it, not as complicated as I thought it would be. I played two games in total and managed to win one, I had a couple of lucky draws. Think I'm going to try and build a deck.
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Sep 2, 2019 23:53
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TacoNight posted:If it were finance, wouldn’t the jump happen when decklists go out and not after release? I’d CommandZone or Commanderin brought it up as an upgrade choice the price skyrockets. Vedalkin Orrey is my go to example a $5 card featured on Command Zone jumps over $10 in a few weeks and is now $30
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Sep 2, 2019 23:54
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bessantj posted:Played my first ever game of M:tG tonight. I quite enjoyed it, not as complicated as I thought it would be. I played two games in total and managed to win one, I had a couple of lucky draws. Think I'm going to try and build a deck. Glad you had fun dude. If you're interested in playing in organized play I recommend hitting up a draft. They are about as much as a night out on the movies and you can keep the cards to start building towards standard, or flip the money cards to go towards your next draft, and you don't have to worry about spending a ton to have parity with other decks. MTG Arena is (for all our complaining) a reasonably good digital implimentation of standard and will let you jam out at all hours practicing evaluating the game state, choosing lines of play, and other skills that will translate however you end up playing.
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Sep 2, 2019 23:57
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Owlbear Camus posted:MTG Arena is (for all our complaining) a reasonably good digital implimentation of standard and will let you jam out at all hours practicing evaluating the game state, choosing lines of play, and other skills that will translate however you end up playing. Seconding Arena being a decent way to get into the game. Just be aware that if current trends persist, you'll need a supercomputer to run it by the end of the year. I also would strongly recommend against drafting on Arena. It's fun in person with some friends though.
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Sep 3, 2019 00:17
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Owlbear Camus posted:Glad you had fun dude. Thanks for the advice. Obviously I'm still very new so I'm going to go through the threads see what they say and what's available in the UK.
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Sep 3, 2019 00:19
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suicidesteve posted:I also would strongly recommend against drafting on Arena. It's fun in person with some friends though. Yeah playing a bunch of Omniscience drafts reminded me just how much I hate bot drafts. The cards you want in Omniscience drafts are mostly garbage, so it's fine, but you get to see how absurd the individual card rankings are. Like, Unsummon is some sort of insanely high pick for the bots.
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Sep 3, 2019 00:29
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bessantj posted:Played my first ever game of M:tG tonight. I quite enjoyed it, not as complicated as I thought it would be. I played two games in total and managed to win one, I had a couple of lucky draws. Think I'm going to try and build a deck. Welcome. Magic: the Gathering is a fun game even if there's a lot of BS that surrounds it. Seconding Limited events as a good way to get into the game and build up a little paper collection. You might also want to look out for a pre-release event for the new set coming out this fall, those are always fun and not super-competitive because everyone is seeing the cards for the first time.
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Sep 3, 2019 00:32
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Hellsau posted:Yeah playing a bunch of Omniscience drafts reminded me just how much I hate bot drafts. The cards you want in Omniscience drafts are mostly garbage, so it's fine, but you get to see how absurd the individual card rankings are. Like, Unsummon is some sort of insanely high pick for the bots. Agreed. I wouldn't even mind it if they weren't so half assed in their implementation. Their rationale for not implementing realtime drafts is beyond lame too.
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Sep 3, 2019 00:53
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Hellsau posted:Yeah playing a bunch of Omniscience drafts reminded me just how much I hate bot drafts. The cards you want in Omniscience drafts are mostly garbage, so it's fine, but you get to see how absurd the individual card rankings are. Like, Unsummon is some sort of insanely high pick for the bots. I got a 3rd pack 8th pick Overcome and I'm just trying to figure how that would ever be possible. The first pick was an insane bomb and the other 6 bots weren't in green? From the same pack, my rare was the green leyline which did not wheel. 
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Sep 3, 2019 01:22
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Hellsau posted:Yeah playing a bunch of Omniscience drafts reminded me just how much I hate bot drafts. The cards you want in Omniscience drafts are mostly garbage, so it's fine, but you get to see how absurd the individual card rankings are. Like, Unsummon is some sort of insanely high pick for the bots. I'm not sure if I see more Murders than Griffin Protectors because the bots are bad, or because I trained myself to ignore white cards, but it's close.
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Sep 3, 2019 01:46
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suicidesteve posted:I got a 3rd pack 8th pick Overcome and I'm just trying to figure how that would ever be possible. The first pick was an insane bomb and the other 6 bots weren't in green? From the same pack, my rare was the green leyline which did not wheel. It's because Overcome is not very good. The bots hack rares like crazy, I don't think they ever pass a rare dual.
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Sep 3, 2019 01:48
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C-Euro posted:Welcome. Magic: the Gathering is a fun game even if there's a lot of BS that surrounds it. Prerelease is super chill. If you find a store with flat prize structure it's the best. My lgs for all its flaws does 2 packs for every regardless of position so everyone brews the most ridiculous thing they can think of.
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Sep 3, 2019 02:14
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ilmucche posted:Prerelease is super chill. If you find a store with flat prize structure it's the best. My lgs for all its flaws does 2 packs for every regardless of position so everyone brews the most ridiculous thing they can think of. RIP in peace my UR Treasure deck from the Ixalan pre-release, far and away the best Limited deck I ever put together.
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Sep 3, 2019 02:55
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Lone Goat posted:It's because Overcome is not very good. I've never seen them pass a dual, but I have gotten passed A+ bomb mythics more than a couple times. Has there been any data released on how the bots choose their cards??
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Sep 3, 2019 03:16
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Lone Goat posted:I'm not sure if I see more Murders than Griffin Protectors because the bots are bad, or because I trained myself to ignore white cards, but it's close. lol someone played a Griffin Protector against me in like my eighth draft and I was like, why is that an uncommon? It isn't, I just managed not to see a single one in eight drafts, and no one had played one against me.
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Sep 3, 2019 03:17
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https://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=22941&d=357070&f=MO Dredge is dead, all hail Dredge
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Sep 3, 2019 04:29
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That's a spicy deadguy ale list. I'm surprised it handled a field with tons of tron and valakut but I bet it just chewed on burn
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Sep 3, 2019 04:53
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Tomescour lmao
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Sep 3, 2019 05:11
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Sampatrick posted:Tomescour lmao 
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Sep 3, 2019 06:05
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Sampatrick posted:Tomescour lmao Before Cathartic Reunion was printed some people were using Tome Scour to dump as much as they could into the yard. After Reunion an APAC player had a tournament report highlighting how good tome scour was in the deck with reunion but due to all the play blood moon was seeing it was tough. I’ve even seen people trying Memory Sluice - people love their graveyard decks
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Sep 3, 2019 06:34
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Good thing Faithless Looting, the problem card that enabled all graveyard decks, was banned.
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Sep 3, 2019 08:36
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It's really good and shows that the looting ban was warranted and not excessive - graveyard decks can still exist, and still win, but they're not so dominant that people have to dedicate half their sideboard to hate cards just to stand a chance.
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Sep 3, 2019 08:42
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moush posted:Good thing Faithless Looting, the problem card that enabled all graveyard decks, was banned. lmao just completely missing the point
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Sep 3, 2019 12:12
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I don’t mind if graveyard decks are good I just don’t want them to be able to cast ancestral recall 
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Sep 3, 2019 12:13
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Listen if I can't just take my library and turn it upside down by turn 2 what's the loving point of playing modern
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Sep 3, 2019 12:17
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Hellsau posted:lol someone played a Griffin Protector against me in like my eighth draft and I was like, why is that an uncommon? I looked at my last 10 drafts with https://www.17lands.com and the latest I saw a Protector was pack 1 pick 3, once. The latest I saw Murder was p3p4 but that was only once and otherwise it was gone by the 3rd pick. According to 17 lands' bot pick tracker, Griffin Protector is ranked as the 2nd highest white common after Pacifism, but is being taken over much better cards like Shock (red's 2nd best common) and Leafkin Druid (green's 1st-3rd best, depending on who you ask). Normally in a human draft you'd see white cards being taken lower than normal because it's such a weak colour overall but the bots don't adjust for that as far as I can tell. oryx posted:I've never seen them pass a dual, but I have gotten passed A+ bomb mythics more than a couple times. Has there been any data released on how the bots choose their cards?? Was it one with a heavy colour requirement? Bots will pass Cavaliers and such a bit more later in the draft. I got a Vivien p3p2 and an Atemsis (rare) p2p5. There hasn't been an official post about how the bots determine where they take cards, but Ryan Spain was on the dev team for Arena pre-beta and he talks about it in on episode 504 of Limited Resources. timestamp 42:00 if it didn't link properly https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OfeQagcOBY&t=2525s Basically, the bots are not drafting a deck with a curve, they're mostly just taking cards based on what cards they think are good. Each card is given a weight and the bots take the card based on that weight until they have a high enough density of cards in two colours and then they lock in to that pair, but they might "splash" if a card in another colour is strong enough. This doesn't address why they take dual lands so high though. In those 10 drafts I looked at, I saw a common dual as late as 11th but I don't recall ever seeing a Temple that I didn't open, so obviously those are being weighed higher by the bots.
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Sep 3, 2019 12:22
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Lone Goat posted:This doesn't address why they take dual lands so high though. In those 10 drafts I looked at, I saw a common dual as late as 11th but I don't recall ever seeing a Temple that I didn't open, so obviously those are being weighed higher by the bots. fuckers just money drafting
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Sep 3, 2019 12:27
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Lone Goat posted:
can't be giving away those duals
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Sep 3, 2019 12:33
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oryx posted:I've never seen them pass a dual, but I have gotten passed A+ bomb mythics more than a couple times. Has there been any data released on how the bots choose their cards?? The guy who designed the system (one of the original hosts of LR, maybe first one? Ryan Spain? Maybe?) was on LR and got into the algorithm some. It starts with hand-made card rankings, kind of like a normal individual card set review. Bots start with the highest value pick Bots will eventually lock into a color, then a second color within a certain number of picks (looking at purely colors, not pips as I recall), and HIGHLY prioritize those colors. I think there's some de-prioritization to avoid picking a dual-color card if they're not locked in. Bots give no thought to curve, except that an efficient card would have a higher value. But if you looked at their deck at the end it might be loaded with 5 drops After a while, they go back and use human draft data to fine tune the value of picks, which will change around the meta. This is a one- or two-time process, not continuous. My guess is that humans snap up dual-lands because they want to fill out their collection for deck building, so after the first tuning pass bots love them too? Or they might give them high values to reflect a "real" draft experience where real life people are filling out their collection and won't want to pass rare dual lands.
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Sep 3, 2019 13:06
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I legit didn't know Tome Scour existed. I doubt this will actually end up lasting but its at least hilarious atm.
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Sep 3, 2019 14:27
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Why rest at Tome Scour when you could Mission Briefing it back from the graveyard? might build mono U dredge when inebriated e: discard stinkweed imp to jump-start radical idea, just think of the (poor) value mossyfisk fucked around with this message at 16:25 on Sep 3, 2019 |
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Sep 3, 2019 16:21
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Sickening posted:I legit didn't know Tome Scour existed. I doubt this will actually end up lasting but its at least hilarious atm. Discard 5 is pretty strong as a starting move for dredge. You are only looking for a dredger or two in the graveyard before it's off to the races, so this might do it. I just find it funny because so many people raged against graveyard decks to the point where the best graveyard card for banned, and now a graveyard deck wins something right afterwards.
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Sep 3, 2019 16:33
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I've gone too far, I'm now considering playing Stream of Thought to mill 4 and shuffle my creeping chills back in.
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Sep 3, 2019 16:46
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mossyfisk posted:I've gone too far, I'm now considering playing Stream of Thought to mill 4 and shuffle my creeping chills back in. You didn't exile them when you dumped them the first time?
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Sep 3, 2019 16:59
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look if I have to play the game wrong to have fun then
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Sep 3, 2019 17:01
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rkajdi posted:Discard 5 is pretty strong as a starting move for dredge. You are only looking for a dredger or two in the graveyard before it's off to the races, so this might do it. When the card whiffs, its just a much worse card than looting. It also just does nothing against rip/leyline where loot at least let you search for answers. Its a solution I didn't know existed and its funny at least. It makes the deck even more glass cannon than it was before which is probably a lot more balanced.
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Sep 3, 2019 17:10
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mossyfisk posted:Why rest at Tome Scour when you could Mission Briefing it back from the graveyard? Don't need to go mono-U, but it isn't unreasonable to just cut red from the deck. It was there almost entirely for Looting. The question is, is Cathartic Reunion enough to warrant keeping red? Do blue/green/black give you a CMC 2 or less looting effect (even if it isn't as big)? Or do you lean harder on straight mill like Tome Scour + discard effects like Brutality and the Innistrad Skabs that come back from the grave? Ideas Unbound with a heavy blue mana base is probably a decent replacement. Edit: Actually, now that I think about it, Conflagrate is a pretty big reason to keep red. I still like Ideas Unbound, though, because you don't discard until the end of your turn, so you get to draw three and dump them for a bigger Conflagrate. AlternateNu fucked around with this message at 17:37 on Sep 3, 2019 |
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Sep 3, 2019 17:27
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Time for the foil skaab ruinator I bought years ago to finally go up in price
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Sep 3, 2019 17:32
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