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Has anyone ever won a high profile or otherwise really good match with Jericho's "foot on chest, flex for the camera" pin or one similar? It's always just such a heel move and surely someone has done it.
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Sep 3, 2019 19:36
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Has anyone ever won a high profile or otherwise really good match with Jericho's "foot on chest, flex for the camera" pin or one similar? It's always just such a heel move and surely someone has done it. Warrior after excessively murdering Randy Savage at WrestleMania 7.
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Sep 3, 2019 19:38
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Hedgehog Pie posted:I seem to recall Billy Gunn as being... somewhat decent in-ring by Attitude Era standards. Was he up there with the likes of Val Venis in competing for the questionable title of "best wrestler in the WWF not named Taka Michinoku"? Val Venis at least had the benefit of being an AJPW mark and doing all their moves, that alone put him ahead of most people in the Attitude Era
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Sep 3, 2019 20:28
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It's strange to me how the three choices to move up to the main event in summer '99 were Billy Gunn, HHH and Jeff Jarrett. What if JJ never left WWF? Was he savvy enough to steal away that main event spot from Hunner?
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Sep 3, 2019 21:16
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Whoever wins, we lose.
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Sep 3, 2019 21:17
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JR wasn't big on Jarrett, right? JJ and Russo made endless references to it in WCW. I can't imagine he would've been a huge deal in the WWF without Russo having his back (thank God).
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Sep 3, 2019 21:41
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Road Dogg is a “good promo” in the same way Enzo is. They got a specific series of catchphrases over but never really deviated from them. Compare that with someone like The Rock who would still hit most of his catchphrases for the singalong pop but could still improvise and change the rest of his promos to be different for different situations and rivals.
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Sep 3, 2019 21:51
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:It's strange to me how the three choices to move up to the main event in summer '99 were Billy Gunn, HHH and Jeff Jarrett. What if JJ never left WWF? Was he savvy enough to steal away that main event spot from Hunner? He wasn't going to move up because Austin didn't want to work with him and HHH had been the chosen guy for over a year. WWF thought HHH came off like the main eventer in the Summerslam 98 ladder match.
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Sep 3, 2019 21:55
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Has anyone ever won a high profile or otherwise really good match with Jericho's "foot on chest, flex for the camera" pin or one similar? It's always just such a heel move and surely someone has done it. Khali winning a title with the one foot/arm raise I think
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Sep 3, 2019 22:03
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Billy Gunn was far from the worst in the ring during the Attitude Era but he was absolutely not good enough to make up for everything he was missing, especially once Angle, Jericho, and the Radicalz showed up and kind of shone a light on just how poor the actual wrestling in the midcard was up until then.
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Sep 3, 2019 22:05
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I think Billy Gunn was good enough that you could have genuinely made him into a credible uppercard/low main event player, but many a wrestler's potential has been squandered by a couple of bad gimmicks or feuds, and in Billy's case he
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Sep 3, 2019 22:10
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Billy sucked bad
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Sep 3, 2019 22:12
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Breitbart Is Rightbart posted:It's strange to me how the three choices to move up to the main event in summer '99 were Billy Gunn, HHH and Jeff Jarrett. What if JJ never left WWF? Was he savvy enough to steal away that main event spot from Hunner? Raid WCW and start the Scott Steiner megapush 
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Sep 3, 2019 22:24
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here's another Attitude Era question, how much control did wrestlers have over who they feuded with and for how long, so I can determine how much of X-Pac's fault it is that he kept getting into feuds that lasted for way too long
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Sep 3, 2019 22:27
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Billy Gunn makes 1000% more sense when you realize he had crippling asthma. As soon as the pace picked up in any match he would drown on dry land.
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Sep 3, 2019 22:33
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Explosions posted:Billy Gunn makes 1000% more sense when you realize he had crippling assthma. As soon as the pace picked up in any match he would drown on dry land.
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Sep 3, 2019 22:36
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CarlCX posted:[Billy Gunn] was never great, and being in your competitive prime in a WWE with Steve Austin, The Rock, Mick Foley, Triple H, Chris Jericho, The Undertaker and Kurt Angle is a nigh-unto impossible ceiling to break, but he also essentially never had a gimmick that didn't sabotage him as a singles competitor and outside of tag teams he lost basically every major feud he was in. Dude got railroaded pretty hard. He did get handed a bunch of bad gimmicks, and that one Rock promo definitely hurt his career (I don't think Rock was trying to do anything like that and I don't blame him, he just cut one of the most savage promos of all time one day and Billy G happened to be the tragic victim of it). But he was Intercontinental Champion, an 11-time Tag Team champ, and won the King of the Ring, and he was at times over as both a face and a heel. I wouldn't say he got "railroaded" or had a bad career. He was a solid midcarder who briefly got pushed over his head, but he did fine. I don't think he ever had the charisma or promo skills to be more than that though. gently caress, I can't even remember a specific Billy Gunn promo off the top of my head where he wasn't just shouting his one line after Road Dogg gave him the stick. He never really had any big standout skill, and I can't imagine him having a successful world title run or anything like that. EDIT: Also, had no idea about the asthma. Certainly explains why he was best in tag matches. rujasu fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Sep 3, 2019 |
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Sep 3, 2019 22:38
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Thank you. I'm sorry.
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Sep 3, 2019 22:38
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rujasu posted:He did get handed a bunch of bad gimmicks, and that one Rock promo definitely hurt his career (I don't think Rock was trying to do anything like that and I don't blame him, he just cut one of the most savage promos of all time one day and Billy G happened to be the tragic victim of it). But he was Intercontinental Champion, an 11-time Tag Team champ, and won the King of the Ring, and he was at times over as both a face and a heel. I wouldn't say he got "railroaded" or had a bad career. He was a solid midcarder who briefly got pushed over his head, but he did fine. I don't think he ever had the charisma or promo skills to be more than that though. gently caress, I can't even remember a specific Billy Gunn promo off the top of my head where he wasn't just shouting his one line after Road Dogg gave him the stick. He never really had any big standout skill, and I can't imagine him having a successful world title run or anything like that. Which is fine, as far as I'm concerned. Everybody eventually getting a run with the title is terrible booking, and wrestling needs midcarders.
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Sep 3, 2019 22:40
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Maxwell Lord posted:The one hardcore thing that I always wonder about is the barbed wire. Is it usually gimmicked at all? Or do you not need to worry about tetanus if it's been kept clean? Or do they just get shots afterwards? My promotion only had like 2 barbwire boards of plywood and were instructed not to break them. We had battle royals where multiple ppl bumped n bled on them. I never heard of anyone ever getting a blood test or getting a tetanus shot. Hell when I was asked to blade the only advice I was given is "don't go too deep" and "you may have to gig twice" to get it goin. Then some guy gave me 4 aspirins and a buncha water, told me "take those right before you go on and you will bleed like a stuck pig" Also Billy Gun sucked
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Sep 4, 2019 01:05
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Explosions posted:Billy Gunn makes 1000% more sense when you realize he had crippling asthma. As soon as the pace picked up in any match he would drown on dry land. He wasn't saying that he was an rear end Man, he was saying he was an Asthmatic?
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Sep 4, 2019 01:18
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rujasu posted:and that one Rock promo definitely hurt his career (I don't think Rock was trying to do anything like that and I don't blame him, he just cut one of the most savage promos of all time one day and Billy G happened to be the tragic victim of it). Nobody remembers The One Billy Gunn with his gold trunks and Billy and Chuck is only a footnote in history because they god a GLAAD award for having a gay tag team and then subsequently revealed they were only pretending to be gay for attention.
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Sep 4, 2019 01:24
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has anyone ever been hit with a serious liver shot while taking shoot kicks? i see a lot of kicks like dangerously close to the liver and i'm really surprised I've never heard about it happening. even if it's a worked kick, they can still be stiff and it takes less force than you would think. it's not really something you can just power through either, everyone would know
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Sep 4, 2019 02:15
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there was a tag team match where madison eagles went down after taking a reverse spin kick and vomited under the ring apron but thats the only example i can think of
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Sep 4, 2019 02:18
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davidbix posted:It's like when CZW did the angle where Zandig was strung up on meathooks. It got an astonishingly stupid amount of online backlash—more than any actually dangerous CZW spots had—even though it was part of the angle that Whacks (the piercing expert who did other work for them) was "forced" by the heels into doing it. That stunt was completely safe. I thought the main issue with that spot was that it took forever and the crowd weren’t into it at all?
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Sep 4, 2019 02:43
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Aesop Poprock posted:I thought the main issue with that spot was that it took forever and the crowd weren’t into it at all? the crowd was going nuts for the entirity of that match.
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Sep 4, 2019 02:49
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I think he was talking about the Zandig match, not the GCW ladder match. The ladder match did rock, though.
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Sep 4, 2019 02:51
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Yeah I just meant the zandig meathooks part
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Sep 4, 2019 03:02
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Hirez posted:Khali winning a title with the one foot/arm raise I think Worse; he (He won the title in a battle royal)
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Sep 4, 2019 03:05
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LividLiquid posted:Nobody remembers The One Billy Gunn with his gold trunks and Billy and Chuck is only a footnote in history because they god a GLAAD award for having a gay tag team and then subsequently revealed they were only pretending to be gay for attention. I will always remember the segment where they revealed it was a stunt and Billy said "If I was gay, Chuck, I'd probably marry you." And the crowd cheered. It was a surreal moment.
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Sep 4, 2019 03:20
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Defiance Industries posted:I will always remember the segment where they revealed it was a stunt and Billy said "If I was gay, Chuck, I'd probably marry you." And the crowd cheered. It was a surreal moment. I admit, that storyline did get me at one point. "Did I just say three minutes?" I was probably the only person who didn't realize it was Easy E
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Sep 4, 2019 03:24
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LividLiquid posted:Nobody remembers The One Billy Gunn with his gold trunks and Billy and Chuck is only a footnote in history because they god a GLAAD award for having a gay tag team and then subsequently revealed they were only pretending to be gay for attention. I remember The One Billy Gunn! He had to change his name because he lost the rights to use Mr. rear end in a feud with the Right to Censor!
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Sep 4, 2019 03:27
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Admiral Joeslop posted:Has anyone ever won a high profile or otherwise really good match with Jericho's "foot on chest, flex for the camera" pin or one similar? It's always just such a heel move and surely someone has done it. Kodo Fuyuki (who Jericho attributes stealing the move from) won some squashes in FMW with that.
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Sep 4, 2019 03:57
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rujasu posted:He did get handed a bunch of bad gimmicks, and that one Rock promo definitely hurt his career (I don't think Rock was trying to do anything like that and I don't blame him, he just cut one of the most savage promos of all time one day and Billy G happened to be the tragic victim of it). But he was Intercontinental Champion, an 11-time Tag Team champ, and won the King of the Ring, and he was at times over as both a face and a heel. I wouldn't say he got "railroaded" or had a bad career. He was a solid midcarder who briefly got pushed over his head, but he did fine. I don't think he ever had the charisma or promo skills to be more than that though. gently caress, I can't even remember a specific Billy Gunn promo off the top of my head where he wasn't just shouting his one line after Road Dogg gave him the stick. He never really had any big standout skill, and I can't imagine him having a successful world title run or anything like that. That's kind of what I mean, though: It's not that he didn't get singles pushes, it's that his singles pushes were undercut. He won KOTR, but he only won it because Shamrock and Kane got taken out by other people, and after winning he got demoted to being the third wheel in a group feud over the loving legal rights to D-X, which he also lost, which is what then led to the feud with The Rock that straight-up murdered him. He won the IC belt only to then lose it in 19 days and go right back to the RTC feud, randomly jobbing and then being part of a fake gay angle that also ended in his getting humiliated on TV followed immediately by getting the poo poo beat out of him. I'm not saying Billy Gunn was a great singles talent they missed out on or anything, you're absolutely right that he was, like, Profoundly Okay By 1999 Standards at best and would have drowned if they actually put him in the main event. I'm saying the WWE, when it wants to, can take similarly mediocre talents like JBL and put sustained thrust behind them in an attempt to make them credible upper-card talent anyway, and for whatever reason, they kept half-attempting that with Gunn only to change their minds and make him immediately eat poo poo, and that's how you kill a talent with the audience no matter how good or bad they are.
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Sep 4, 2019 04:10
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That's a really good point and made me realize that Billy Gunn was basically the prototype for PG era WWE booking.
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Sep 4, 2019 04:24
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It blows my mind that they were commended (and supported?) by GLAAD for the Billy and Chuck angle. I was twelve years old at the time, and even I could see how shallow and potentially hurtful it was. They were bad because they were gay, and when they weren't gay they were explicitly just doing it for attention. Easy E even foreshadowed it! That said, "Did I just say... three minutes???" is a great reveal that in my nostalgic mind almost rivals THAT'S NOT CICLOPE.
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Sep 4, 2019 06:49
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Dacap posted:Road Dogg is a “good promo” in the same way Enzo is. They got a specific series of catchphrases over but never really deviated from them. Enzo used to say a lot of different things in NXT, and then he stuck with the one promo in WWE proper. It was nothing like the Road Dogg who said exactly the same thing for years. Enzo was a lovely wrestler and probably person, but he could talk like a motherfucker.
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Sep 4, 2019 08:24
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enzo promos were some of the worst in WWE. just random generic, impersonal insults and nonsense that has nothing to do with the storyline. he never actually added to any storyline, or got his opponent over, or had any purpose whatsoever for what he was saying. It's like someone trying to imitate the Rock if all they've ever seen is a "THE ROCK'S MOST SAVAGE MOMENTS" video on youtube.
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Sep 4, 2019 09:13
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enzo didn't cut promos, he did singalongs.
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Sep 4, 2019 09:33
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there isn't anything wrong with singalongs though. crowd engagement is good and helps them like you.
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Sep 4, 2019 09:34
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