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So what happens today? A vote?
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Sep 4, 2019 14:16
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OwlFancier posted:How do you do your sectarianism without a state church? I think flutes, drums, flegs and "walking along the Queen's highway" do it
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Sep 4, 2019 14:20
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:So what happens today? A vote? A vote that will force bojo to beg the eu for an extension.
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Sep 4, 2019 14:20
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poo poo’s obviously about to go down so I’ve bitten the bullet and have joined the Labour Party. I’m in the Ealing Central and Acton constituency for the OP list. The site crapped out when I pressed the confirm button, but I got an email welcoming me to the party, so I guess it worked. But I need a membership number to access the MyLabour stuff, and the email didn’t include one. Was that on the page that didn’t load, or will it be turning up in an email later?
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Sep 4, 2019 14:20
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OwlFancier posted:It's another one of those things that despite the US going to great lengths to protest its separation of church and state we're still better at it in practice despite literally giving the church seats in the lords. Rev. W. Hanna, Memoirs of Thomas Chalmers posted:For in its promoters view a state religion, or compulsory support of religious institutions was inconsistent with the nature of religion ... its tendency, as exhibited by its effects was to secularize religion, promote hypocrisy, perpetuate error, produce infidelity, destroy the unity and purity of the Church, and disturb the peace and order of civil society. They viewed state churches as bad because by being such an entwined part of the state people would be drawn away from faith, fervor, and religion and into viewing it as just some poo poo you did at Christmas and Easter until it dwindled away in significance entirely. Quite prescient 
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Sep 4, 2019 14:20
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:So what happens today? A vote? Yes, today is the 'go beg for an extension, you failure, you stupid gently caress' bill, and is generally expected to pass. It'll be voted on later this evening.
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Sep 4, 2019 14:20
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Honest question. What would happen if after being forced to go for an extension he just didn't. Would he be indicted by some function of the role of government, or would it be up to MPs to VONC?
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Sep 4, 2019 14:23
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I hope the vote passes and Boris decides to self-immolate as a form of protest.
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Sep 4, 2019 14:24
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Primpod posted:Honest question. What would happen if after being forced to go for an extension he just didn't. Would he be indicted by some function of the role of government, or would it be up to MPs to VONC? A race between Parliament and the judiciary to see who can do him for it first, probably won by parliament because they can hold him in contempt with a vote then Bercow breaks out the parliament cops. Of course I don't think the speaker has ever tried to arrest the prime minister before so that's a loving constitutional nightmare in and of itself but that'd be my suggestion! It is something he should theoretically be allowed to do but it'd be unprecedented.
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Sep 4, 2019 14:25
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No goverment was held in contempt until may so I wouldn't be shocked to see boris ask for a extension at gunpoint
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Sep 4, 2019 14:27
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What about the 100+ amendments that have to be debated in the Lords?
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Sep 4, 2019 14:27
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https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1169239920461975557
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Sep 4, 2019 14:30
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Vlex posted:What about the 100+ amendments that have to be debated in the Lords? I believe they can shorten debate time for each of them. And the Tories don't have a majority there
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Sep 4, 2019 14:32
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Big J McD is my spirit politician.
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Sep 4, 2019 14:34
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What's to stop Johnson just waltzing over to Brussels and saying oi cunts gis an extension and then just gently caress off. Like will there be a criteria here or is it just an assumption this guy is going to do something he doesn't want to do. Is the happy scenario expectation that the EU will just give an extension regardless on the pretext they hope Labour wins a snap? None of this seems realistic even if Johnson loses the vote today. That doesn't even take into consideration some of the loons in the EU 27 helping him no deal out by refusing an extension.
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Sep 4, 2019 14:44
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AceOfFlames posted:Why are prayers at the top of the list? I thought it was the US that had the religious lunatics. I have been told by a former MP that it is how you bag your place for the day in the House if you want a seat! There aren't enough seats for all MPs in a full chamber, so if you want to be there with a seat, you bag a place at prayers. ed: beaten again.
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Sep 4, 2019 14:46
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What actually is the next step after this bill? A vote on revocation in the event of no deal being agreed by Parliament? That seems like the only way to actually guarantee that no deal is taken off the table regardless of whether we leave or not.
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Sep 4, 2019 14:46
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Holy gently caress
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Sep 4, 2019 14:48
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lemonadesweetheart posted:What's to stop Johnson just waltzing over to Brussels and saying oi cunts gis an extension and then just gently caress off. Like will there be a criteria here or is it just an assumption this guy is going to do something he doesn't want to do. Is the happy scenario expectation that the EU will just give an extension regardless on the pretext they hope Labour wins a snap? None of this seems realistic even if Johnson loses the vote today. That doesn't even take into consideration some of the loons in the EU 27 helping him no deal out by refusing an extension. I think the EU would be very happy to give another extension, if they get a reason for doing so. Boris just bumbling over won't cut it - they need to see some kind of material change in UK politics either happening or on the horizon. Boris going over and saying "look, humpaflompa, we're doing a GE basically about Brexit and we'll have an answer" might do it. The EU at this point is essentially done with Brexit (until the actual trade negotiations start) because - as Barnier has said 150,000 times - the deal on the table is the one you're going to get. End of story. The only way the deal changes is if the Tories are booted out and May's/BoJo's red lines are a thing of the past and a new (Labour) government would consider Norway/EEA an option, if not full remain. But if BoJo wins the election it's over, guaranteed. I mean, the bizarre thing on the Labour/LibDem side is a little bit that they just expect the EU to just nod along with whatever the gently caress is going on. That's gonna end pretty soon.
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Sep 4, 2019 14:50
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:What actually is the next step after this bill? A vote on revocation in the event of no deal being agreed by Parliament? That seems like the only way to actually guarantee that no deal is taken off the table regardless of whether we leave or not. GE, Labour forms govt, negotiates a deal without May's red lines, brings it to the people as Deal vs Remain.
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Sep 4, 2019 14:51
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As to the current EU attitude to all this:  I posted an article about it a few pages back
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Sep 4, 2019 14:52
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lemonadesweetheart posted:What's to stop Johnson just waltzing over to Brussels and saying oi cunts gis an extension and then just gently caress off. Like will there be a criteria here or is it just an assumption this guy is going to do something he doesn't want to do. Is the happy scenario expectation that the EU will just give an extension regardless on the pretext they hope Labour wins a snap? None of this seems realistic even if Johnson loses the vote today. That doesn't even take into consideration some of the loons in the EU 27 helping him no deal out by refusing an extension. The bill itself explains it better: https://twitter.com/hilarybennmp/status/1168560598650621953     Mostly focus on section 3 (in picture 3 on page 3, as it happens).
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Sep 4, 2019 14:53
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Holy poo poo I didn't realise it dictated the exact letter Boris would have to send to the EU 
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Sep 4, 2019 14:59
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I find this a bit bizarre - maybe Cummings is a sort of Heat Seaking Missile designed to destroy the tories from inside?quote:Mr Cummings’ political affiliations have also been the subject of fevered speculation in Westminster. And I was idly wondering whether given how unpopular Johnson seems to be with tory MPs whether they voted for him in the leadership election just so they could finish him off once and for all?
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Sep 4, 2019 15:00
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Oh yeah it's a real good example of how the UK system differs from say, the US one. Parliament runs the country, the PM only gets a say by virtue of being able to command a majority, and boris currently has a -43 majority lol. Until he fixes that he does what he's told.
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Sep 4, 2019 15:00
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https://twitter.com/StewartWood/status/1169177033383043072
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Sep 4, 2019 15:04
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You know Jeremy should really offer Nutt a lordship so he can be the official Weedlord.
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Sep 4, 2019 15:07
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Appropriate for Baron Janner. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdydtDuj3VU
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Sep 4, 2019 15:07
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Saros posted:Holy poo poo I didn't realise it dictated the exact letter Boris would have to send to the EU Would YOU trust Boris with just about anything?
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Sep 4, 2019 15:08
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Bercow has done his homework. Good lad.
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Sep 4, 2019 15:10
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Primpod posted:Honest question. What would happen if after being forced to go for an extension he just didn't. Would he be indicted by some function of the role of government, or would it be up to MPs to VONC? Hmmmm. Constitutionally, does it even need Boris' cooperation? The EU want Article 50 to be invoked by 'the British government'. Boris isn't that per se, he's just some bloke, so if it came right down to it I wonder if the EU would be just like 'ok, right, Parliament is sovereign and has invoked the article, we're good here'.
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Sep 4, 2019 15:11
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Saros posted:Holy poo poo I didn't realise it dictated the exact letter Boris would have to send to the EU it owns that he's being treated like that kid that couldn't stop teasing the class pet in kindergarten
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Sep 4, 2019 15:12
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The bill doesn't state 'no backsies' or explicitly demand the uncrossing of fingers. For shame.
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Sep 4, 2019 15:14
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https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169231615148662784 Looks like The BJ Clown has failed?
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Sep 4, 2019 15:16
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feedmegin posted:Hmmmm. Constitutionally, does it even need Boris' cooperation? The EU want Article 50 to be invoked by 'the British government'. Boris isn't that per se, he's just some bloke, so if it came right down to it I wonder if the EU would be just like 'ok, right, Parliament is sovereign and has invoked the article, we're good here'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9g4YsGpO-A
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Sep 4, 2019 15:18
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Forcing BoJo to extend again is a great flex for an election, IMO. Makes him look like a complete loving moron and riles the BXP vote up.
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Sep 4, 2019 15:18
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OwlFancier posted:A race between Parliament and the judiciary to see who can do him for it first, probably won by parliament because they can hold him in contempt with a vote then Bercow breaks out the parliament cops.
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Sep 4, 2019 15:18
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D. Ebdrup posted:https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169231615148662784 This is absolute comedy gold but i'm not entirely sure it's a good idea. Then again having brexit extended *and* further in the future might help make it a little less all consuming for the election.
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Sep 4, 2019 15:20
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D. Ebdrup posted:https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169231615148662784 This is what I was referring to earlier - would stopping no deal mean passing a bill that literally auto-revokes Article 50 if no other deal is agreed by Parliament, or would it take some other form? I guess we'll find out either way.
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Sep 4, 2019 15:21
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Breaking the UK government is a bit harder because we don't have separation of powers. Breaking the government is when the commons can't agree on anything, but if it can agree on something, and right now it agrees that boris is a moron, it can enact legislation and has some degree of independent ability to force it to be complied with. The difficult part is really that I don't believe a PM has ever said "no u" to the commons before. And the only thing I can think of that would be comparable would be the civil war which ended with james the first being decapitated and christmas being banned lol. And the UK being a creature of habit, it doesn't generally like having to set new precedents. Arresting the PM would be a constitutional level precedent, which Bercow would probably enjoy but which would be profoundly weird.
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Sep 4, 2019 15:22
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