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BrianWilly posted:4) We're gonna have to talk about Hickman's weird infantilization of Jean at some point. It's subtle. It's not something overt and impactful and barely affects what the characters do. But it's there. She's literally wearing her high school uniform. She's calling Xavier "sir" and he's calling her "child" even though the last time they were around they were on far more equal terms. Monet, of all people, a third or fourth generation X-Man, is talking down to her like she barely knows how to use her own powers. It's...me nitpicking, but it's still there. This is the one that's really annoying me. I'm not even counting the recent X-Men Red Jean (though Hickman including Trinary likely means he read that run), but Jean was already badass by the end of X-Factor and the early 90's. By Grant Morrison's run, nearly 20 years ago, she was the strongest member of the team and their de facto leader. Hickman's take is not working for me at all, and unless it's intentional to imply she is not herself currently, I have no idea what this is about. On a positive note, he's nailing Nightcrawler and Wolverine very well, though.
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Sep 4, 2019 23:36
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I mostly agree, but Monet talking talking down to anyone and everyone is completely in character for her. I do think this is the the previously unrevealed 6th lifetime of Moira that we're seeing in House of X.
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Sep 4, 2019 23:48
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Definitely feeling like since HOX 5 is a red banner issue, we'll get majority of the team gone with that and then conclusion is the pods from HOX 1 reveal. Side note, have any of the previews for the post HOX/POX mentioned X(avier) at all?
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Sep 5, 2019 00:03
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I'm very purposefully not rereading any of the issues until both House of X and Powers of X are finished because I want to experience it week to week and then reread it all in one go. But, which life did Moira realize self adapting and recreating Sentinels were inevitable?
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Sep 5, 2019 00:11
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Skwirl posted:I'm very purposefully not rereading any of the issues until both House of X and Powers of X are finished because I want to experience it week to week and then reread it all in one go. But, which life did Moira realize self adapting and recreating Sentinels were inevitable? 7 I think the assassin one.
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Sep 5, 2019 00:17
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Rumda posted:7 I think the assassin one. This is definitely Moira life 6 then. Trying a perfect utopian co-existence then going assassin, then Magneto "We're Here, We're Mutants, Go gently caress Yourself", then Apocalypse and his, well, apocalypse. And then you try and break everything, which I think will be the new books after all this. There's too much emotion from everyone at people dying who we know are going to be in the new books just from ads in the books themselves for it to be "oh, we have regeneration pods."
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Sep 5, 2019 00:26
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Skwirl posted:This is definitely Moira life 6 then. Trying a perfect utopian co-existence then going assassin, then Magneto "We're Here, We're Mutants, Go gently caress Yourself", then Apocalypse and his, well, apocalypse. And then you try and break everything, which I think will be the new books after all this. Yeah this is still my theory: we're seeing VI, not X. It also potentially explains a lot of the characterizations, particularly Jean. But something with her is weird in general. Remember the "Welcome home, Jean" creepy poo poo in HoX 1? BrianWilly posted:3) Speaking of metatext, it makes utterly no sense that there's no mention of the Inhumans or the M-Pox at all. I guess that it doesn't fit neatly into the whole "Look how much they hate us" angle Hickman is trying to play out with these mutant genocide events, but the idea of this run just flat-out ignoring the Terrigen plague is insane considering how big a deal it was (it killed Cyclops for pete's sake!). What's more, wasn't it Hickman himself who originally had Black Bolt unleash the mists onto the planet? It feels, honestly, a little cowardly for him to not have to deal with its implications at this time, in this run where he's diving deep into almost everything else that ever even happened to the X-Men. Pretending all of the Inhumans poo poo didn't happen is probably for the best, right? The events reviewed in this issue are specifically things humans did to mutants so it makes sense why M-Pox wasn't on there. This isn't about everything that happened to mutants; It's about what has been done to them by humanity. Hickman has set everything up as a mutants vs. man-machine conflict here. Also, it's not terribly fair to assigning blame to him as the person writing an event with corporate-mandated plot points.
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Sep 5, 2019 00:44
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unrelated but the ads for the upcoming X-Men series was the first time I noticed Quentin's shirt on the cover of X-Force 
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Sep 5, 2019 00:49
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Alaois posted:unrelated but the ads for the upcoming X-Men series was the first time I noticed Quentin's shirt on the cover of X-Force I just had to go look at it and I need more context, assuming Nathan is Cable I don't know who the rest of the names are. I get the format of the meme and that seems on on brand for Quentin Quire.
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Sep 5, 2019 00:52
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Skwirl posted:I just had to go look at it and I need more context, assuming Nathan is Cable I don't know who the rest of the names are. I get the format of the meme and that seems on on brand for Quentin Quire. Nathan& Cable Neena& Domino Gaveedra& Shatterstar Tabitha& Boom-Boom Maria& Feral Sam& Cannonball James. Warpath The original lineup of X-Force
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Sep 5, 2019 00:54
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whats do you guys think Mystique did before she disengaged her collar?
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Sep 5, 2019 00:56
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I'm glad this issue addressed Wanda and Decimation, since this was a minor gripe of mine from previous issues, but "Pretender" makes it seem unlikely that the High Evolutionary retcon will be reversed, doesn't it? well, I can always hope
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Sep 5, 2019 00:59
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Alaois posted:Nathan& Cable It's based on a real t-shirt you can buy!
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Sep 5, 2019 01:11
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Alaois posted:Nathan& Cable Now I want this T-Shirt, it can go next to my red "Magneto Was Right" t-shirt.
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Sep 5, 2019 01:20
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Stanfield posted:I just finished the Brood Saga in my Claremont readthrough, and between that and HoX 4 I'm now all about Wolverine and Kurt being bestest buds. It's not Kurt/Logan but I want you to read the Power Pack oneshot that came out today that has the Brood in it and tell me if you think (this is only speculation)Kitty and "Wolvie" killed all of the Brood the moment those kids weren't there
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Sep 5, 2019 01:24
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I think the weird X/Jean relationship is tied in to how he, the more experienced telepath, manipulates a much more powerful one
Harold Fjord fucked around with this message at 02:47 on Sep 5, 2019 |
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Sep 5, 2019 02:22
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This might be Life 6, orrrr Xavier might have to strike a deal with Sinister to get those regeneration pods working. The next few issues have apocalypse and then sinister on the covers so they’ll certain come into the story in some way.
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Sep 5, 2019 03:28
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Barry Convex posted:I'm glad this issue addressed Wanda and Decimation, since this was a minor gripe of mine from previous issues, but "Pretender" makes it seem unlikely that the High Evolutionary retcon will be reversed, doesn't it? well, I can always hope I'm kind of glad they addressed it and treated it as an attack by humanity on the mutant population; stating that Wanda is a Pretender and that her affiliation is to the Avengers make it seem a lot more evil than it actually was, but I like it. Mutants are tired of being hunted and killed, they don't have to play nice. I guess the Inhumans are not mentioned because it was an unintended effect? Am I forgetting something? I thought it was just a consequence to exposure to terrigen, but not actually Black Bolt's plan.
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Sep 5, 2019 03:35
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but Wanda has never really been an X-Men, Peter was in X-Factor and hung out with his (not real now) dad when he first took over Genosha, but Wanda was briefly a villain and then an Avenger, and she's mostly been an Avenger ever since.
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Sep 5, 2019 03:39
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radlum posted:
He purposely released them because of reasons involving Thanos' son who I bet you didn't even remember until I mentioned him. Infinity was a weird loving thing where you could easily see what part was Hickman's story and what stupid poo poo was forced on him by the guy Trump has put in charge of sick veterans.
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Sep 5, 2019 04:10
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has there been any mention of who's been making these infographics
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Sep 5, 2019 04:31
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I agree what we just saw was life 6. In HoX #2 when Moira and Xavier show up on Magneto's island to show him his other lives there are only 5 different versions of him are shown
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Sep 5, 2019 06:54
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Feel free to shout me down, but I studiously avoid this thread on wednesdays until I pick up the book, so can we not have spoiler tags as much after the book has come out?
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Sep 5, 2019 07:02
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Parallax posted:has there been any mention of who's been making these infographics Hickman has almost certainly been doing a lot of that. A lot of his comics present information like that. He missed out on his calling somewhere in the corporate world.
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Sep 5, 2019 08:50
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Neurosis posted:Hickman has almost certainly been doing a lot of that. A lot of his comics present information like that. He missed out on his calling somewhere in the corporate world. pretty sure he's just pasting his corporate work in to black monday murders.
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Sep 5, 2019 08:58
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Loved all of this except for Jean Grey being a scared little girl in this timeline.
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Sep 5, 2019 10:31
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Neurosis posted:Hickman has almost certainly been doing a lot of that. A lot of his comics present information like that. He missed out on his calling somewhere in the corporate world. I think he's talking from an in-universe perspective? At least, I've been wondering that. From the tone of stuff like "the pretender" it's clearly supposed to be written by someone in-universe. I was thinking it was info compiled by Moira through her lives and prepared for the Moira X timeline. Was it a plot point or even brought up at the time that the destruction of Genosha killed almost all mutants? I don't remember that being a thing at all, but the infographic had 16 of the world's then-17 million mutants on Genosha at the time. Morrison was leaning hard into the mutants on the rise stuff at the time so it seems likely that wasn't his intention.
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Sep 5, 2019 10:47
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No, that was a thing at the time, wasn't it? In New X-Men I remember people referring to it as a cataclysm for mutants generally.
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Sep 5, 2019 10:52
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  also, I think it’s kinda noteworthy the jet-fist-sentinel flying into the tower was published just prior to 9/11
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Sep 5, 2019 11:01
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Yeah, it's very explicit how many die in E is for Extinction and it's one of the bigger issues I have with Morrison's run. Committing a Holocaust-like event on a metaphor group like mutants should be the only thing that gets mentioned for about five years in that book. Instead, Morrison jumps to telling stories about high school kids getting detention and convoluted plots about Magneto pretending to have a black hole brain. Part of his argument was that it made being a mutant more unique, as if having another 1M or 17M mutants makes a difference when we can only really follow/catalog a few hundred. Compare that to how universe-wide the No More Mutants thing was pushed, how dramatic Mutant Massacre was, or even how terrible something like the (very problematic) Legacy Virus was treated. Sixteen million mutants dead? Whatevs.
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Sep 5, 2019 12:44
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Synesthesian Fetish posted:I agree what we just saw was life 6. In HoX #2 when Moira and Xavier show up on Magneto's island to show him his other lives there are only 5 different versions of him are shown Good catch. Honestly, I think this just makes the most sense. You wouldn't go to A before you go to X.
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Sep 5, 2019 14:08
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danbanana posted:Yeah, it's very explicit how many die in E is for Extinction and it's one of the bigger issues I have with Morrison's run. Committing a Holocaust-like event on a metaphor group like mutants should be the only thing that gets mentioned for about five years in that book. Instead, Morrison jumps to telling stories about high school kids getting detention and convoluted plots about Magneto pretending to have a black hole brain. Part of his argument was that it made being a mutant more unique, as if having another 1M or 17M mutants makes a difference when we can only really follow/catalog a few hundred. Compare that to how universe-wide the No More Mutants thing was pushed, how dramatic Mutant Massacre was, or even how terrible something like the (very problematic) Legacy Virus was treated. Sixteen million mutants dead? Whatevs. Man I didn't remember that at all. I'm guessing that's largely because, as you said, it's not actually treated with any kind of gravity in continuity. The most fallout I can think of from that story is Kitty's dad dying on Genosha and whatever Necrosha was. Oh, and Emma Frost shutting Tony Stark the hell down. 
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Sep 5, 2019 14:17
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Rochallor posted:Man I didn't remember that at all. I'm guessing that's largely because, as you said, it's not actually treated with any kind of gravity in continuity. The most fallout I can think of from that story is Kitty's dad dying on Genosha and whatever Necrosha was. Oh, and Emma Frost shutting Tony Stark the hell down. It wasn't handled well. A lot of people talk about how Marvel just ignored Morrison's run after he left but I really think it's because they saw some of his major actions as being handled superficially after the book(s) spent decades making sure everything mattered. Everything Claremont setup was about overwrought drama, and then Morrison does the (theoretically) most dramatic thing you can do to the characters and he pretty much ignores it. He has Magneto go crazy and commit another genocide. He rewrites everything about the Phoenix. He has Scott develop a telepath fetish. There were all these big character changes that seemed to come completely out of left-field. And then people wonder why Marvel was like "well... let's just write around that poo poo!" I think this is a concern for Hickman's run, too, considering he hasn't always followed established characterization to a tee. But this week's issue is further establishing that at least he's very much emphasizing the basic premise of the X-folks: trying to survive a world that is literally trying to constantly kill them with giant loving robots. Morrison did that in the first 3 issues and then promptly decided to do his own thing.
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Sep 5, 2019 14:35
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Ignoring Magneto being mutant Hitler and herding humans into literal giant ovens was, 100%, the right move. Just a total desecration of the Claremont revamp that made the character interesting to begin with.
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Sep 5, 2019 14:45
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Rochallor posted:I think he's talking from an in-universe perspective? At least, I've been wondering that. From the tone of stuff like "the pretender" it's clearly supposed to be written by someone in-universe. I was thinking it was info compiled by Moira through her lives and prepared for the Moira X timeline. yeah. i hadn't thought about it before this issue, but the ones here seem more skewed in perspective to make me think they were written by a mutant. makes me wonder if there was anything misleading about previous ones (aside from the moira timelines)
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Sep 5, 2019 14:48
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This is the first time I've heard complaint about the Genosha genocide not being touched-on enough in Morrison's run. From what I recall it was a constant element, getting referenced in nearly every other arc, being the root cause of the whole mutant cultural revolution that permeated Morrison's stay on the title. I think it would have been weird if he'd belabored the point even more than he did.danbanana posted:He rewrites everything about the Phoenix.
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Sep 5, 2019 15:23
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BrianWilly posted:And this part I'll just flat-out disagree with entirely. He was just about the only writer around who tried to bridge the chasm between Claremont's original vision of Phoenix being an expression of Jean's powers, and the subsequent retcon of it being some unknowable cosmic force. And even then, some of the work had already been done before he got on; the late nineties were all about Jean exploring the true breadths of her powers and it always, always, zero exceptions, featured her displaying some sort of Phoenix powers. Claremont himself wrote some of those instances, Morrison was -- if anything -- simply following up on where they left off. "So a phoenix is a bird, right? So wha'if it... lays an hegg?" I admit that Morrison has done like 3 things in his career that I find interesting at all, so I'm definitely biased. But I don't get the lasting love for New X-Men, whose main contributions are some dope-rear end Quitely work and Quentin Quire. That poo poo was all over the place and there is zero rationale to killing 16 million people in the first couple of issues because there's very little reckoning about that later.
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Sep 5, 2019 15:36
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Cassandra Nova also rules. And the Stepford Cuckoos! Plus, we owe a lot of Emma Frost's modern characterisation to Morrison. The U-Men are cool villains as well. I enjoyed New X-Men, but it's not my favourite. It generally feels like a fairly cynical book, and the Xorn twist is super dumb.
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Sep 5, 2019 15:38
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Synesthesian Fetish posted:I agree what we just saw was life 6. In HoX #2 when Moira and Xavier show up on Magneto's island to show him his other lives there are only 5 different versions of him are shown Android Blues posted:Cassandra Nova also rules. And the Stepford Cuckoos! Plus, we owe a lot of Emma Frost's modern characterisation to Morrison. The U-Men are cool villains as well. Magneto is bad throughout the arc, but it is easy within the Morrison's own story to say it was actually Sublime's actions.
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Sep 5, 2019 15:50
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I feel like the entire direction of the book is dictated by the Genoshan genocide-- I didn't spend every second of every day in the early aughts explicitly talking or thinking about 9/11, like, I took math tests, I went on dates, I learned to drive, I went to work at Wawa and came home, it wasn't the dominant topic of my life even if it increasingly dictated the direction of the cultural environment I lived in. And when I did think about it, I really thought about it-- when my highschool held an assembly about registering as a conscientious objector, when my best friend's family got anti-Muslim graffiti on their garage door, etc.. In that sense, even if I didn't really appreciate it fully at the time, reading New X-Men as it came out was a pretty interesting meditation on a culture responding to an ontologically overwhelming crisis, in good ways and bad ways. I think this is watered down a bit by Morrison's insistence on taking a taste of every single piece of the X-Men pie-- I don't care about the Starjammers, and yeah, his take on Magneto at the end works in the context of his story, but is kind of a rotten thing to do with a long-established and well-liked character who, presumably, other characters would like to use. Overall I still like it, even if, honestly, when I do reread it I'm pretty selective in which parts I care to revisit.
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Sep 5, 2019 15:51
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