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The stream was still up a little while earlier and it said 05:00 in the corner. Lol
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Sep 5, 2019 05:37
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Greetings from Stansted Airport where I am hungry, hungover and incredibly loving tired
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Sep 5, 2019 05:47
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Saw a couple leave signs at a picture of a protest over there. Aware this has been covered ad nauseum. One was obviously stupid. "63% of constituencies voted leave", obviously Brexit was a popular vote referendum not by constituency as Brexiteers keenly remind everyone, and Remain has been winning Leave/Remain polling the last few years. The 2nd one I wanted more context on, to see if it's as catastrophically stupid as it seems. "Remain MPs are the only obstacle to a good deal". Most political discussions are normative, rather than empirical, so it's rare that major assertions can be empirically disproven, but this statement should be one of them. Even pretending the sign actually means "Remain MPs are the biggest obstacle to a good deal to leave the EU", while not absolutely positively disproven yet, is more absurd than ever. After years of increasingly serious threats to leave without a deal, the EU have moved none of their red lines. Even with under 2 months left, a harder line PM, prorogued parliament and (until perhaps today) uncertainty whether parliament could pass a delay, still no EU red lines moved. Let's say hypothetically BJ won the GE and had a strong pro no-deal majority, EU-UK negotiations continue with Remain MPs unable to do anything to stop a crash out and still, as expected, no better deal is forthcoming and no EU red lines move. That situation begs the question, at what point would they admit that the EU is the biggest obstacle to a 'better' (in their eyes) deal, not Remain MPs? After the crash out? 1 second before? 5 minutes before? 5 days before? Or are they so emotionally invested in the idea most of them can simply never admit it? It seems to me the only scenarios where most of the true believers who blame Remain MPs for lack of a 'better' deal could ever admit to being wrong are scenarios where Britain actually does crash out without one. I don't see any way they could learn from their mistake in time to avoid it. They've become impervious to that sort of rational updating. Which is a drat shame. It reminds me a lot of hardcore Trumpistas in the US unable to admit the trade war is doing serious harm to the economy. The only way a lot of them can admit the trade war isn't worth it (at least the way Trump has fought it) is if the economy actually suffers a serious recession as a result. In both cases the catastrophe has to actually occur in its full magnitude in order for the mental stimulus to be strong enough to overcome the delusions of its true believers. Eregos fucked around with this message at 06:02 on Sep 5, 2019 |
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Sep 5, 2019 05:59
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ShaneMacGowansTeeth posted:Greetings from Stansted Airport where I am hungry, hungover and incredibly loving tired have a crumbly scone and some tea, always works.
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Sep 5, 2019 06:08
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Eregos posted:It seems to me the only scenarios where most of the true believers who blame Remain MPs for lack of a 'better' deal could ever admit to being wrong are scenarios where Britain actually does crash out without one. I don't see any way they could learn from their mistake in time to avoid it. They've become impervious to that sort of rational updating. Which is a drat shame. It reminds me a lot of hardcore Trumpistas in the US unable to admit the trade war is doing serious harm to the economy. The only way a lot of them can admit the trade war isn't worth it (at least the way Trump has fought it) is if the economy actually suffers a serious recession as a result. In both cases the catastrophe has to actually occur in its full magnitude in order for the mental stimulus to be strong enough to overcome the delusions of its true believers.
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Sep 5, 2019 06:18
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I’m in GMT+7 rn, it’s nice to see other people in the thread before mid afternoon. Re political capital, IMO it’s more like a badboy counter in a paradox game: how much you can get away with before everyone else drops their squabbling to kick your poo poo in. For an example of what a political leader running out of political capital looks like, see Johnson, B.
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Sep 5, 2019 06:26
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wocobob posted:Do the Lords ever do anything of consequence? Watching this from the US it sort of seems like they're just the US Senate but without any real point and even more undemocratic. I saw a few posts like this so I am not picking on yours specifically, but the House of Lords while unelected is essentially harmless, kinda like the Sovereign, since unlike the US Senate they can't block all useful legislation or stack the UK courts with 25 year old Heritage Foundation interns with the support of about 30-40 percent of the electorate. They can, at most, delay legislation slightly. The biggest quandary in the UK system right now is that there really isn't a system, just a bunch of gentleman's agreements to be broken.
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Sep 5, 2019 06:27
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frumpykvetchbot posted:have a crumbly scone and some tea, always works. Had a "bacon butty" from Burger King which was absolute rank. Now just heading to the pub because of course
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Sep 5, 2019 06:30
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Blinks77 posted:Very much a nuclear option and one that Johnson would have to ask her to do. I think if Johnson advised her to deny royal assent, she'd break two of his fingers and inform him that if he wants to keep the other eight then he's changing his advice right loving now. She really, really doesn't want to be put in a position of having to make an active decision that half the country will hate
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Sep 5, 2019 06:40
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https://twitter.com/SimmsMelanie/status/1169212494130421761
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Sep 5, 2019 06:42
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Found you a new thread title. You're welcome.
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Sep 5, 2019 06:47
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jesus christ this is a pretty insane
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Sep 5, 2019 06:48
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loving hell
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Sep 5, 2019 06:50
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kustomkarkommando posted:Seems like they reached an agreement to all go home and a totally NEW (but the same) programme motion to be laid tomorrow. They're lying though.
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Sep 5, 2019 06:54
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I find myself accidentally having some hope. Could someone tell me why this: isn’t as cut and dried as it says, so I can go back to my normal comforting state of semi-controlled panic mixed with weary resignation?
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Sep 5, 2019 06:54
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The Lone Badger posted:They're lying though. 
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Sep 5, 2019 06:55
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Sanford posted:I find myself accidentally having some hope. Could someone tell me why this: The tories are going to go right back to filibustering tomorrow, having wasted one full day already and being able to start from the top.
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Sep 5, 2019 06:59
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Sanford posted:I find myself accidentally having some hope. Could someone tell me why this: Hope is the pathway to disappointment.
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Sep 5, 2019 07:01
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Re: the Queen not signing a law: the Belgian king refused to sign a law on abortion in 1990, so they suspended him for a day. Perhaps something similar could be done in the UK?
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Sep 5, 2019 07:21
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Martian posted:Re: the Queen not signing a law: the Belgian king refused to sign a law on abortion in 1990, so they suspended him for a day. Perhaps something similar could be done in the UK? I suggest suspension from a gallows, a day should be plenty
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Sep 5, 2019 07:22
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Guardian's saying that they've agreed to send it back to the commons by 5pm Friday: https://www.theguardian.com/politic...py_to_clipboard
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Sep 5, 2019 07:27
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Doctor_Fruitbat posted:Guardian's saying that they've agreed to send it back to the commons by 5pm Friday: I’m skeptical. What if they’re just doing this so that the idiot blairites in Labour and the libshits pass the election vote and then the Lords just go “lol psyke, filibuster forever now”
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Sep 5, 2019 07:33
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Pochoclo posted:I’m skeptical. What if they’re just doing this so that the idiot blairites in Labour and the libshits pass the election vote and then the Lords just go “lol psyke, filibuster forever now” You’d host a special commons vote and threaten to bypass them
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Sep 5, 2019 07:36
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Total Meatlove posted:You’d host a special commons vote and threaten to bypass them Is there enough time left for this though? I thought poo poo was super tight
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Sep 5, 2019 07:38
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Apparently the latest galaxy brain idea out of Cummings is that Johnson proposes and supports a VONC on himself.
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Sep 5, 2019 07:43
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Pochoclo posted:I’m skeptical. What if they’re just doing this so that the idiot blairites in Labour and the libshits pass the election vote and then the Lords just go “lol psyke, filibuster forever now” Friday 5pm does seem suspicious as gently caress.
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Sep 5, 2019 07:46
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:I can't wait for the tory BXP split to crush the government Same but LD Lab
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Sep 5, 2019 08:08
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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Necrothatcher posted:Apparently the latest galaxy brain idea out of Cummings is that Johnson proposes and supports a VONC on himself. Does Parliament still get prorogued if there has been a VONC in the meantime and we're in the 14 day "form a new government" period? Eregos posted:It seems to me the only scenarios where most of the true believers who blame Remain MPs for lack of a 'better' deal could ever admit to being wrong are scenarios where Britain actually does crash out without one. I don't see any way they could learn from their mistake in time to avoid it. They've become impervious to that sort of rational updating. Which is a drat shame. It reminds me a lot of hardcore Trumpistas in the US unable to admit the trade war is doing serious harm to the economy. The only way a lot of them can admit the trade war isn't worth it (at least the way Trump has fought it) is if the economy actually suffers a serious recession as a result. In both cases the catastrophe has to actually occur in its full magnitude in order for the mental stimulus to be strong enough to overcome the delusions of its true believers. Lol that you think that they won't still claim that we didn't Brexit hard enough
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Sep 5, 2019 08:10
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Necrothatcher posted:Apparently the latest galaxy brain idea out of Cummings is that Johnson proposes and supports a VONC on himself. Put a bangin' VONC on me
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Sep 5, 2019 08:11
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Eregos posted:. In both cases the catastrophe has to actually occur in its full magnitude in order for the mental stimulus to be strong enough to overcome the delusions of its true believers. Nah they'll just come up with a stab-in-the-back myth.
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Sep 5, 2019 08:11
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Necrothatcher posted:Apparently the latest galaxy brain idea out of Cummings is that Johnson proposes and supports a VONC on himself. This would be so hilarious.
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Sep 5, 2019 08:12
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Beefeater1980 posted:The Lords is fine, and replacing it with an elected chamber would not be an improvement. It’s much cooler-headed and more sensible than the commons because it’s not so strongly party-political - see how they actually reached a compromise tonight. It's better than a directly elected upper house, but that's a bit of a canard, like whenever someone suggests scrapping the monarchy people say "oh, so you want an elected president with all the powers of an 18th century monarch then?" (They usually don't say exactly that, but it's clear that they mean American President and not Irish President or similar.) A better option would be some kind of Council of Provinces where every UK region gets 35 people they can send, there's some assumed minimum level of qualifications, and they aren't directly elected, but rather the Scottish Parliament/Welsh Assembly/East Midlands Councils Executive Board appoints them. You'd still get a bunch of people's mates, but at least they might be people's mates who met somewhere other than London, and at least there wouldn't be 800 of them bumbling around with no power but to delay things.
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Sep 5, 2019 08:12
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Necrothatcher posted:Apparently the latest galaxy brain idea out of Cummings is that Johnson proposes and supports a VONC on himself. You... you what m8 Ah wait I think I get it. If he gets a bangin' VONC put on him then deliberately doesn't put together a new government (And assumes Jezza can't which is one big assumption even from Cummies lol) it winds the clock down by two weeks and then gives us an election. Can't see fifty five different ways THAT could blow up in their faces goomsnarr posted:Hope is the pathway to disappointment. The quote is "Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."  :40ksay:
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Sep 5, 2019 08:14
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kanonvandekempen posted:loving hell  UK rapidly approaching tinpot dictatorship status here
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Sep 5, 2019 08:15
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painted into a coroner posted:The Lib Dems care more about their own electoral prospects than they do about Brexit. They really want to gently caress everything forever, don't they.
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Sep 5, 2019 08:15
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The lords is difficult because the review chamber basically is supposed to be full of "good" people, but of course that's also the theoretical desire of the lower house as well so the question becomes if you can make the upper chamber magically good then why not the lower? So you're instead end up with it just being different. Unelectedness is a desirable counterpoint to the problems of electoral politics but it offers minimal guarantee of quality, especially when, as noted, it's stuffed full of all the old nonce PM's mates. I dunno that there really is a good solution though there are options for other things you could try to get the chamber representative of.
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Sep 5, 2019 08:18
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Just grab a random sampling of say 20 people from each region every few years and make 'em do it like jury duty.
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Sep 5, 2019 08:21
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That also works as possibly a better option for running local government than either elections or letting the territorials do it.
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Sep 5, 2019 08:22
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Necrothatcher posted:Apparently the latest galaxy brain idea out of Cummings is that Johnson proposes and supports a VONC on himself. Putting things in the delicate hands of the TA. Let a hundred Mark Francoises bloom, I'm looking forward to getting beaten with rubber truncheons for putting the recycling in the wrong bin
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Sep 5, 2019 08:26
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So I guess the government plan here is to cave on this bill to meet Corybn's requirement, and get another GE vote before progation? Then if he still refuses an election before Oct 31st they can keep filling the papers with their chicken-themed propaganda.
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Sep 5, 2019 08:26
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