UKMT September 2019 - A Fish-Abandoning Government

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > UKMT September 2019 - A Fish-Abandoning Government

Flayer: Sep 13, 2003; by Fluffdaddy; Buglord

Corbyn will undoubtedly cave to the legion of chicken memes pumped out by the Sun.

I can feel the desperation from here...

# ? Sep 5, 2019 08:32

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# ? May 24, 2024 03:59

Pablo Bluth: Sep 7, 2007; I've made a huge mistake.

I've pondered the idea of having the Lords elected but done via the members of specialist bodies (so a lord representing doctors, one representing civil engineers, one for nature orgs, one for social charities, etc). Also make it single ten year terms only and a ban on politicians (nobody who been elected to HoC, or the devolved parliaments).

# ? Sep 5, 2019 08:32

Purple Prince: Aug 20, 2011

Pablo Bluth posted:

I've pondered the idea of having the Lords elected but done via the members of specialist bodies (so a lord representing doctors, one representing civil engineers, one for nature orgs, one for social charities, etc). Also make it single ten year terms only and a ban on politicians (nobody who been elected to HoC, or the devolved parliaments).

Ban on politicians arguably wouldn't be a great idea as, at least in theory, they should be the most qualified people to review new legislation.

That said some mix of lawyers, judges, and civil servants could probably achieve better results.

# ? Sep 5, 2019 08:40

pitch a fitness: Mar 19, 2010

Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

Friday 5pm does seem suspicious as gently caress.

Idk if I'm reading yesterday's lords discussion right but it looks like that Fri 5pm absolute deadline was the original intent when the bill was introduced to the HoL http://bit.ly/2NT3MM3 . But then that means the wrecking lords just gave up(?) which sounds equally suspect.

# ? Sep 5, 2019 08:40

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Sounds worryingly like technocracy to me.

# ? Sep 5, 2019 08:40

Nothingtoseehere: Nov 11, 2010

There's a reason that the lords only has amending powers

I've thought that having Lords duty as a thing you apply for, but picking from applications is random gets the benefits of Jury duty without forcing someone to do the job of a lord for 3 years or whatever the length.

# ? Sep 5, 2019 08:42

Doccykins: Feb 21, 2006

xtothez posted:

So I guess the government plan here is to cave on this bill to meet Corybn's requirement, and get another GE vote before progation? Then if he still refuses an election before Oct 31st they can keep filling the papers with their chicken-themed propaganda.

I like this because when Labour finally do agree to call a GE what are they going to run on? "CORBYN TOO CHICKEN TO FIGHT THIS ELECTION CAMPAIGN CURRENTLY IN PROGRESS!!"

# ? Sep 5, 2019 08:46

Aphex-: Jan 29, 2006; Dinosaur Gum

this is the only lord I need

# ? Sep 5, 2019 08:51

xtothez: Jan 4, 2004; College Slice

Doccykins posted:

I like this because when Labour finally do agree to call a GE what are they going to run on? "CORBYN TOO CHICKEN TO FIGHT THIS ELECTION CAMPAIGN CURRENTLY IN PROGRESS!!"

My worry is that once he can't get a pre Oct 31st election, Boris will turn around and say "you had your chance" and try to cling on as long as possible.

Then we're back into VONC territory and asking a bunch of now-independent MPs to vote themselves out of office.

# ? Sep 5, 2019 08:54

DesperateDan: Dec 10, 2005; Where's my cow?

Is that my cow?

No it isn't, but it still tramples my bloody lavender.

I loving hate smarmy doctors receptionists- had to call 41 times in a row at opening to even have a chance at an appointment- then had to justify my medical needs in detail over the loving phone to someone who seems to have no medical nous or training whatsoever. That was bad enough till there was then a bored sigh and "you will have to call back Monday morning" before he hung up on me.

This comes after finding out they had been sat on multiple test results without letting me know. Guess I need a new gp surgery- they used to be better than this.

Now back to my regular political output-

heh, tories hosed it

# ? Sep 5, 2019 08:55

bessantj: Jul 27, 2004

Gonzo McFee posted:

https://twitter.com/SimmsMelanie/status/1169212494130421761

Seems exactly a thing the Tories would do. Also sounds like the plot to a new series of Dad's Army.

DesperateDan posted:

I loving hate smarmy doctors receptionists- had to call 41 times in a row at opening to even have a chance at an appointment- then had to justify my medical needs in detail over the loving phone to someone who seems to have no medical nous or training whatsoever. That was bad enough till there was then a bored sigh and "you will have to call back Monday morning" before he hung up on me.

This comes after finding out they had been sat on multiple test results without letting me know. Guess I need a new gp surgery- they used to be better than this.

Now back to my regular political output-

heh, tories hosed it

Sorry you had to go through that it sounds poo poo.

# ? Sep 5, 2019 08:59

justcola: May 22, 2004; La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo

The House of Lords is pretty much Gormenghast.

Managed to convince my mum and brother to vote Labour last night. My brother doesn't care about politics and my mum doesn't like Corbyn and wants to vote Greens to save the planet, but after much cajoling and reminding how we used benefits growing up they came round.

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:00

endlessmonotony: Nov 4, 2009; by Fritz the Horse

Ms Adequate posted:

The quote is "Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."

:40ksay:

I feel like trusting in the powers of faith and hatred to sustain you is dangerously like hope in itself.

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:03

Angry Lobster: May 16, 2011; Served with honor
and some clarified butter.

Replace the Lords with japanese robots.

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:05

namesake: Jun 19, 2006; "When I was a girl, around 12 or 13, I had a fantasy that I'd grow up to marry Captain Scarlet, but he'd be busy fighting the Mysterons so I'd cuckold him with the sexiest people I could think of - Nigel Mansell, Pat Sharp and Mr. Blobby."

justcola posted:

The House of Lords is pretty much Gormenghast.

Managed to convince my mum and brother to vote Labour last night. My brother doesn't care about politics and my mum doesn't like Corbyn and wants to vote Greens to save the planet, but after much cajoling and reminding how we used benefits growing up they came round.

Do some research into Labour's land plans because there's an environmental edge to that as well and your mum might like that.

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:07

Vlex: Aug 4, 2006; I'd rather be a climbing ape than a big titty angel.

Ah the rare yet prolific House of Lords Derail

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:10

Pound_Coin: Feb 5, 2004; �

Aphex- posted:

this is the only lord I need

I regret to inform you that lord buckethead got co-opted by melts

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:10

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

OwlFancier posted:

I dunno that there really is a good solution though there are options for other things you could try to get the chamber representative of.

That's really the key thing with any representative politics. Okay, so you've decided to represent n people with (n/x) people, how do you want to partition that?

Hereditary Lords are a good way of representing manorial estates, Bishops are a good way of representing dioceses. Fortunately we don't run much on those any more.

Life Peers aren't a good way of representing much at all other than buddyism and desperate reform to the prior system that was threatening to fall apart under its own contradictions.

So what do you want to represent? Trades Union Councils are a popular socialist one, or delegates of the proletarian councils or whatever. But how do you arrange those? By trade sector? By land area? How do you keep enough churn to stop a labor aristocracy forming at the top?

The reason I like the Council of Provinces one is because it's realistic within what we have now (boo reformism boo) and addresses one of the big things that keeps coming up in non-Westminster UK politics, that politics is overcentralized and held entirely by people that don't seem to give a poo poo about anywhere outside Westminster, although I suspect you'd still end up with power cliques as always.

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:11

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

justcola posted:

The House of Lords is pretty much Gormenghast.

Managed to convince my mum and brother to vote Labour last night. My brother doesn't care about politics and my mum doesn't like Corbyn and wants to vote Greens to save the planet, but after much cajoling and reminding how we used benefits growing up they came round.

labour are talking about a green new deal like in the US but I can't remember any specifics

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:13

OwlFancier: Aug 22, 2013

Regional delegates is fairly appealing given my dislike of outright federalism.

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:15

justcola: May 22, 2004; La-Li-Lu-Le-Lo

Jose posted:

labour are talking about a green new deal like in the US but I can't remember any specifics

Aye, I was quoting bits from this: https://www.labour.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/The-Green-Transformation-.pdf (though I'm wishing there were 1 page summaries for various policy areas - I'll have a gander at Momentums stuff to see if there's anything a bit more digestible for a family WhatsApp group)

Also - where's the link to the UKMT podcast?

edit: first post it looks! https://praxiscast.podbean.com/

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:23

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

https://twitter.com/DailyMirror/status/1169235343008260096

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:29

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

Do not go gently into that bald night

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:32

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

I had to go to sleep at like 1030 last night, did anything Actually Happen overnight? Or was it just standard parliamentary nonsense?

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:33

Doctor_Fruitbat: Jun 2, 2013

That's one way to do a combover I guess.

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:34

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

I kissed a girl, got convicted. Fourth Reich's now been constricted.

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:35

goddamnedtwisto: Dec 31, 2004; If you ask me about the mole people in the London Underground, I WILL be forced to kill you; Fun Shoe

thespaceinvader posted:

I had to go to sleep at like 1030 last night, did anything Actually Happen overnight? Or was it just standard parliamentary nonsense?

Yeah nobody else wanted it so you're Prime Minister now, you have to explain how you're going to fix Brexit in 10 minutes.

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:36

Failed Imagineer: Sep 22, 2018

Guavanaut posted:

I kissed a girl, got convicted. Fourth Reich's now been constricted.

I kissed a girl and I Reiched it? Doesn't really make any sense I suppose

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:36

Beefeater1980: Sep 12, 2008; My God, it's full of Horatios!

Guavanaut posted:

The Lords isn't fine, it's massive compared to any other upper house, and it's full of old fucks who were mates/nonces with some previous cabinet member from the 70s and got made a life peer and now just show up to claim expenses. Also members given representation purely on account of their ordained religious role, which would generally not be okay outside of an actual religious organization or, say, Iran. Also they have gently caress all useful power, which is good given their lack of legitimacy, but not necessarily what you want from a chamber of account and review.

It's better than a directly elected upper house, but that's a bit of a canard, like whenever someone suggests scrapping the monarchy people say "oh, so you want an elected president with all the powers of an 18th century monarch then?" (They usually don't say exactly that, but it's clear that they mean American President and not Irish President or similar.) A better option would be some kind of Council of Provinces where every UK region gets 35 people they can send, there's some assumed minimum level of qualifications, and they aren't directly elected, but rather the Scottish Parliament/Welsh Assembly/East Midlands Councils Executive Board appoints them. You'd still get a bunch of people's mates, but at least they might be people's mates who met somewhere other than London, and at least there wouldn't be 800 of them bumbling around with no power but to delay things.

I mean, that would be better still, but to my knowledge the only two positions championed by any party are (1) don�t touch it and (2) get rid of it, and of those options I prefer (1).

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:38

thespaceinvader: Mar 30, 2011; The slightest touch from a Gol-Shogeg will result in Instant Death!

goddamnedtwisto posted:

Yeah nobody else wanted it so you're Prime Minister now, you have to explain how you're going to fix Brexit in 10 minutes.

Revoke article 50 and guillotine all the billionaires.

What do I win?

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:39

Beefeater1980: Sep 12, 2008; My God, it's full of Horatios!

Jose posted:

https://twitter.com/DailyMirror/status/1169235343008260096

Holy gently caress I have never seen a human being whose picture screams so loudly �German Sex Tourist�.

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:40

That Italian Guy: Jul 25, 2012; We need the equivalent of the shrimp = small pastry avatar, but for ambulances and their mysteries now.

CGI Stardust posted:

Putting things in the delicate hands of the TA. Let a hundred Mark Francoises bloom, I'm looking forward to getting beaten with rubber truncheons for putting the recycling in the wrong bin

You monster!

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:41

Junior G-man: Sep 15, 2004; Wrapped in a mystery, inside an enigma

Some good(ish?) news for a change, especially for dirty foreigners living in sacred Albion:

quote:

UK abandons plans to end free movement October 31

LONDON � The U.K. government on Wednesday announced that people from EU countries will have until at least 2021 before they are required to prove their residency rights in Britain.

The announcement by the Home Office marks an acknowledgment by the government that it will be unable to introduce a new immigration system immediately after Brexit.

Instead, temporary restrictions for European migrants would be introduced on October 31 in the event of a no-deal exit from the bloc, the government said.

The move marks a significant climbdown for Prime Minister Boris Johnson, who had stressed his commitment to ending free movement immediately after Brexit.

The U.K.�s immigration department has been wrestling with the near-impossible task of passing legislation to abolish freedom of movement before the October 31 deadline, as well as the challenge of how to distinguish between EU nationals living in the country before and after Brexit.

The government had until Wednesday not yet commissioned a report into Australia�s migration system, which the U.K. is eyeing as a possible model.

�After careful consideration, myself, the Prime Minister and Cabinet have therefore agreed that EU citizens moving here after a no deal Brexit will be able to access a temporary immigration status, until the new skills-based immigration system goes live at the start of 2021,� Patel said in a statement to parliament on Wednesday.

After a no-deal Brexit, EU nationals arriving in the U.K. between October 31 and December 31, 2020, would continue to be allowed to enter the country just by showing a passport or a national identity card.

Those wishing to stay for longer than three months would need to apply for a new European Temporary Leave to Remain scheme, which would be free of charge and voluntary until the end of 2020 � enabling them to stay for up to three years.

EU citizens would not be required to prove their residency status when applying for jobs or renting a house, however, until 2021.

Once the full immigration system is in place beyond 2021, EU nationals will have to apply for permission to stay, and applications fees would apply, the Home Office said.

However, in updated guidance, the department acknowledged it will not be possible to distinguish between EU nationals living in the country before and after Brexit until at least the end of 2020. Because of that, employers or landlords will not be asked to carry out checks until everyone who is eligible for the EU settlement scheme has had a �reasonable opportunity� to get that sorted.

Beyond December 2020, employers and others will need to check the status of people from the EU but they will not be requested to do this retrospectively.

Steven Peers, professor of EU law at the University of Essex, said the government is effectively proposing �a unilateral transition� of one year to avoid being sued, after ministers were warned by lawyers that an immediate rule change risked legal action.

�It should avoid any serious crisis of large numbers of EU citizens not being able to enter the country again [after a no-deal Brexit],� Peers said. �It seems to be a climbdown because the government had threatened a much stricter scheme, without really explaining it.�

The Home Office insisted that a �crucial difference� between the current and the new immigration system would be that those who do not hold valid immigration permission to be in the U.K. �may be liable to enforcement action.� EU nationals who commit crimes during their stay in Britain would be subject to tougher treatment, and could be deported, the department said.

The plans would apply to people from European Economic Area countries and Switzerland. Irish nationals will continue to be able to settle in the U.K. long-term under a Common Travel Area arrangement.

Earlier Wednesday, the Home Office published a letter asking the independent Migration Advisory Committee to conduct a review of the Australian immigration system to come up with recommendations on how to adapt it to the U.K. after Brexit.

Now why would this be slipped out in the middle of the night when everybody's attention was somewhere else :thunk:

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:41

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

No idea how legit this is but I believe it

https://twitter.com/CliveWismayer/status/1169510678065029120?s=19

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:42

Pesky Splinter: Feb 16, 2011; A worried pug.

https://twitter.com/parliawint/status/1169344160702312448

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:43

mehall: Aug 27, 2010

Replace the Lords with an elected Senate, but make it so that you're elected for a 10 year term, and a Senate election also can't happen within 2 years of a commons one, unless the Lords haven't had one in, say, 16 years.

That keeps it long enough that they're less subject to the day by day changes in politics, and de-syncs them from any changes that hit the commons.

You still also only leave them with amending power, no proposal power, it stays as purely a review body, meaning anyone looking to actually change public policy needs to go through the commons not the senate.

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:44

Vlex: Aug 4, 2006; I'd rather be a climbing ape than a big titty angel.

https://twitter.com/R1100GSBlueNose/status/1169526153457143809?s=19

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:50

Jose: Jul 24, 2007; Adrian Chiles is a broadcaster and writer

The guardian love letting various lib dem MPs write obvious lies about corbyn again

https://twitter.com/How_Upsetting/status/1169529027058634753?s=19

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:51

radmonger: Jun 6, 2011

Pablo Bluth posted:

I've pondered the idea of having the Lords elected but done via the members of specialist bodies (so a lord representing doctors, one representing civil engineers, one for nature orgs, one for social charities, etc). Also make it single ten year terms only and a ban on politicians (nobody who been elected to HoC, or the devolved parliaments).

I approve of this idea if the British Undertaker�s Council get to appoint a Death Lord, The Greenwich Observatory a Time Lord, etc.

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:53

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# ? May 24, 2024 03:59

Guavanaut: Nov 27, 2009; Looking At Them Tittys
1969 - 1998; Toilet Rascal

radmonger posted:

I approve of this idea if the British Undertaker�s Council get to appoint a Death Lord, The Greenwich Observatory a Time Lord, etc.

Would the Engineering Council appoint a STEMlord? :ohdear:

# ? Sep 5, 2019 09:56

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