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thespaceinvader posted:Causing someone to burn a spell slot to cast a completely ineffectual shield is a dick move, by the by. I disagree with this, and I think most of the folks at my table would disagree as well. It sucks when it happens, but it sucks when you cast a spell and miss with your to hit roll or a enemy makes its save too. Again, this may be just because we're used to playing it this way. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it works for us - if it doesn't work for you, that's fine, there's more than one way to play the game and have fun. If a DM said a solid hit, or clean hit, crippling blow, etc.. I'd know it's pretty much not worth it - if it's getting clipped, winged, glancing blow, etc.. it's probably worth a shot. I have burned a shield to no effect before, and I've caused others to do the same as DM - that's very much the exception rather than the rule though. Good descriptions go a long way towards assuring a player knows generally when a good use is and when one isn't. You get a feel for each DMs descriptors, and when it's a good play or not, but even then, sometimes it doesn't work out, especially with things like cutting words, where you needed to reduce the roll by 3, but you only reduce it by 2 or some such. The way I see it, when someone's swinging a sword at your head and you're making the call of whether to shield or not, and you're doing this in a six second window where you're also potentially doing several other things (let's say a twinned fire bolt and a healing word), I doubt my character would be 100% certain of if it was going to work or not - I'd have an idea, yes, but complete certainty? Not so much. To phrase it another way, knowing with complete certainty that your shield will work just feels kind of lame. Also this: TooMuchAbstraction posted:Knowing the number is makes it harder for the DM to cheat. And I am all in favor of the DM cheating to make things more interesting.
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Sep 5, 2019 16:45
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Marathanes posted:"The Kobold scores a clean hit on you" - a hit where a shield spell or cutting words probably wouldn't save you - "The shield spell deflects the arrow from your core to your shoulder, but you still take the full brunt of the blow" Splicer fucked around with this message at 16:50 on Sep 5, 2019 |
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Sep 5, 2019 16:48
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Marathanes posted:I disagree with this, and I think most of the folks at my table would disagree as well. It sucks when it happens, but it sucks when you cast a spell and miss with your to hit roll or a enemy makes its save too. Again, this may be just because we're used to playing it this way. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but it works for us - if it doesn't work for you, that's fine, there's more than one way to play the game and have fun. If a DM said a solid hit, or clean hit, crippling blow, etc.. I'd know it's pretty much not worth it - if it's getting clipped, winged, glancing blow, etc.. it's probably worth a shot. Have you tried not playing D&D?
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Sep 5, 2019 16:58
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thespaceinvader posted:Shield is a reaction to being hit, which causes you not to be hit, and it relies, like Cutting Words, on the DM calling numbers out for his attack results, and the player responding appropriately. Wow. No DM that I've met plays like this. Is there any clarification from Wizards of the Coast on this?? Dang, this should change the feel of these adventurer league games.
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Sep 5, 2019 17:28
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In this thread: prescriptivists telling you how to have fun in a freeform RPG whose rulebook, flawed though it may be, contains numerous cutouts explicitly allowing you to change the rules if you like.
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Sep 5, 2019 17:31
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A Bad King posted:Wow. No DM that I've met plays like this. Is there any clarification from Wizards of the Coast on this?? Dang, this should change the feel of these adventurer league games. Every AL DM I’ve played with across multiple cons and three years at a store says some variant of “Does a X hit?” when rolling attacks on PCs. The player facing rules assume you know that number.
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Sep 5, 2019 17:32
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Kaysette posted:Every AL DM I’ve played with across multiple cons and three years at a store says some variant of “Does a X hit?” when rolling attacks on PCs. The player facing rules assume you know that number. The current DM on my table has a screen, asks for our character sheets and logs our AC. And tells us whether something hits or not, but not a dice roll. I thought that Cutting Words, since it reads "after the roll but before the determination," only works if I burn through it after he rolls but before he tells me whether it hits or not. For example, we're in this attic, facing down 4 CR5 baddies (plus an additional 2 later on that pop up once we've burned the 4 down and a dumb PC decides to go a'splorin some more). We take out 3 over 2 hours through lucky rolls and a battle of attrition with how many healing potions/holy water bottles we got vs annoying self-heals and HP pool. Anyways, the last 4th decides to book it through the window using a strength ability check on the bars -- DM rolls, I shout a cutting words debuff before I know whether the roll succeeds or fails, the baddie failed its roll but how was I to know if my neg-7 roll helped?
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Sep 5, 2019 17:40
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:In this thread: prescriptivists telling you how to have fun in a freeform RPG whose rulebook, flawed though it may be, contains numerous cutouts explicitly allowing you to change the rules if you like. if i paid 100$ for the rules why wouldn't i use them? i can play a better freeform game for free
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Sep 5, 2019 17:51
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A Bad King posted:We take out 3 over 2 hours 
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Sep 5, 2019 18:02
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Yeah that seems not ideal
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Sep 5, 2019 18:03
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That sounds like the worst. I'm not gonna come slap the dice out of your hands but gently caress, man, that sucks.
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Sep 5, 2019 18:07
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Yeah, I'm not one to say there's any one right or true way to play D&D. My friends and I play it because we like it. We have liked it since we were all kids together, and we like it now. We've played many other systems (Savage Worlds, White Wolf, etc..) but we always come back to D&D, if with our own touches on it, which are likely contributed to by our shared history and experience. What works for us might not work for anyone else, or especially at AL tables. The few times I've joined other groups, I do my best to adapt to whatever the paradigm is at that table, and leave my preconceptions at the door. Every DM is different and, imo, none of them are wrong - they just run things different ways. The last thing I want to do is tell anyone how to have fun, I just find it helpful to hear about the ways other folks run things/handle issues, and I feel like I have something to contribute to that conversation as well.
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Sep 5, 2019 18:08
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Elfgames posted:if i paid 100$ for the rules why wouldn't i use them? i can play a better freeform game for free Hey, you do you. It's when people are shrilly demanding that other people play their way that it starts getting weird. Like, it's OK to say "RAW you get to see the dice", it's weird to say "Do not trick people into wasting spell slots" as if it's somehow deceitful to have a house rule that says you cast Shield without knowing 100% whether it will help.
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Sep 5, 2019 18:12
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Hey, you do you. It's when people are shrilly demanding that other people play their way that it starts getting weird. Like, it's OK to say "RAW you get to see the dice", it's weird to say "Do not trick people into wasting spell slots" as if it's somehow deceitful to have a house rule that says you cast Shield without knowing 100% whether it will help. If all your players signed up to your game in the understanding that that's how your game works, you do you. I wouldn't play in that situation (or more accurately, I probably wouldn't take Shield or Cutting words in that situation, or anything else that relies on knowing how much a hit hit by), and I'd be pretty irritated if it was sprung on me. Especially if it was sprung on my by an Adventurers' League DM, because regardless of what you do in your home game, organised play DMs drat sure ought to be sticking to the rules as written.
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Sep 5, 2019 18:22
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A group of us scouted out an old abandoned keep in the forest last night. It's overrun with Kobolds. There must have been hundreds of them in there - we managed to sneak in & kill one of the bigger ones that was a sorcerer and got out before getting swarmed. One of our 3 DMs mentioned last night that we'll most likely do a bigger raid to clear out the keep. The most people I've ever played with was 5 players. Does anyone have experience with a large party doing an adventure? I'm assuming it'll either be one big group or smaller groups with 3 DMs running the tables.
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Sep 5, 2019 18:34
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Zuul the Cat posted:it'll either be one big group Don't do this. Zuul the Cat posted:smaller groups with 3 DMs running the tables. Do this. I get quite bored with how things get bogged down with 7 players. My preference is 4-5. There's just too much dead time between actions with more than 6.
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Sep 5, 2019 18:42
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Does anyone have advice for making roll20 games flow faster? Our group (rl friends) just started using it (due to a couple of people moving away) and it takes far more time for us to do anything compared to everyone at the same table.
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Sep 5, 2019 18:45
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nelson posted:Does anyone have advice for making roll20 games flow faster? Our group (rl friends) just started using it (due to a couple of people moving away) and it takes far more time for us to do anything compared to everyone at the same table. A lot of it is meeting the platform halfway, and a lot of it hangs on the DM doing their prep, but once you get the hang of it rate of play should skyrocket relative to tabletop. Turn on advanced shortcuts, use the advanced shortcuts, use the macro bar and token actions. Macros are literally the entire reason to use roll20. If you're the DM you can prep encounters in the moment by shift-clicking to bring up a tokens character sheet, then double clicking the namebar of the character sheet to minimize it in a translucent small tab, then maximize it double clicking again, so you can have the character sheets for two archmages and three minion types without cluttering the map excessively. The VTT Enhancement Suite and Better20 are absolutely lovely: https://noads.5e.tools/ Willie Tomg fucked around with this message at 18:59 on Sep 5, 2019 |
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Sep 5, 2019 18:56
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Hey, you do you. It's when people are shrilly demanding that other people play their way that it starts getting weird. Like, it's OK to say "RAW you get to see the dice", it's weird to say "Do not trick people into wasting spell slots" as if it's somehow deceitful to have a house rule that says you cast Shield without knowing 100% whether it will help. The method of play described drastically reduces the utility of an already niche spell, especially for the eldritch knight who has the best synergy with that spell and has minimal spell slots to begin with. This is especially true in the specific scenario of the GM feeding false mechanical information to the players ("probably" in situations where it is known to the GM that it is a numerical certainty) which they are then using to make mechanical choices (expending limited character resources) in the most mechanically structured party of the game (combat). Should you choose to go this route you should be aware of the impact this will have on various aspects of the game and advise your players accordingly, to wit, "Don't take shield, the way we'll be playing it's going to be a garbage spell" and "cutting words is going to be nerfed to poo poo but bards are overpowered as gently caress anyway so deal". This is an unavoidable consequence of attempting to use this particular ruleset in a manner it is not suited to, no matter how much the designers and their apologists (that's you) try to pretend this crunch heavy setting specific extremely narratively restrictive game is some kind of universal free-form generic gaming system. You bring shame upon your avatar. Splicer fucked around with this message at 19:05 on Sep 5, 2019 |
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Sep 5, 2019 18:59
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But the other thing I said is shorter and gets to the point faster.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:00
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Willie Tomg posted:A lot of it is meeting the platform halfway, and a lot of it hangs on the DM doing their prep, but once you get the hang of it rate of play should skyrocket relative to tabletop. Turn on advanced shortcuts, use the advanced shortcuts, use the macro bar and token actions. Macros are literally the entire reason to use roll20. Thanks! I’ll pass this along to our DM.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:03
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Oh also players can drag weapon actions, saves, and ability checks from the OGL charsheet onto their macro quick bar, rename them to something short or even an emoji, and even do spell effects as "attacks" when you aren't just punting spell descriptions into the chat window clicking on your spell list. Like, initiative order should be: everyone already has their token highlit, they click INI on their bar, the DM clicks "sort descending" and thats it. You rolled initiative for the whole encounter in 5 seconds tops. Start taking actions. A token's turn should be: I do [THING]. [THING] should be on your bar, so press that button, or the DM brings up the NPC sheet and works off that or what have you. The number of [THING] is either high enough or it's not. You move [FEET] or you don't. That's your turn. This should be like 30 seconds of turn if you're just chillin. Maybe 60 if you get crazy with AoE spells or what have you. Next turn: It's a weird platform because it can be disorienting to RP in front of a microphone in a room, rather than at a table while making eye contact with folk, but once you get the hang of it rate of play goes super fast. Like, a medium encounter should be a 10-15 minute thing. Which means you spend relatively more time in RP, which means you get better/less weird at it, faster.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:21
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nelson posted:Thanks! I’ll pass this along to our DM. Sidestepping the DM screen debate, public rolling also helps a ton with speeding things up. And while it's not technically the way it's meant to be done either, players automatically rolling for damage alongside attack/save also removes a lot of combat flow overhead. Oh, and use the OGL sheets - they're objectively the most responsive and less resource-intensive character sheets relative to their functionality. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Sep 5, 2019 |
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Sep 5, 2019 19:23
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It was a lvl 5 human Fighter, two lvl 1 Celestial Warlock, L2 Half-Elf Barbarian ("dandy muscles"), and me, a L5 Lore Bard with no blasters. We had little hitting power, just negation and ~15 dpr from PC's against 10 HP regenerations on +80 HP grappling/HP max drop baddies who didn't like being woken up. It was scary.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:27
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What manner of wretched creature parties level 5s with levels 1 and 2??
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Sep 5, 2019 19:31
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There's some fights you just walk away from, and that sounds like one of them. I mean that in character BTW. Like just grabbing the PC with the lowest initiative and just booking it down the attic door
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Sep 5, 2019 19:32
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Conspiratiorist posted:What manner of wretched creature parties level 5s with levels 1 and 2?? Infinite Karma fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Sep 5, 2019 |
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Sep 5, 2019 19:33
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Conspiratiorist posted:What manner of wretched creature parties level 5s with levels 1 and 2?? Also I'm guessing the answer is "Adventurer's League".
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Sep 5, 2019 19:34
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Splicer posted:Every playstyle is valid no matter how stupid or completely unsuited to the system and you're a bad man for implying otherwise. Level 5 is Tier 2. Splicer posted:There's some fights you just walk away from, and that sounds like one of them. Hey now, the only 100% unwinnable fight is the one you run away from 
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Sep 5, 2019 19:37
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Splicer posted:Every playstyle is valid no matter how stupid or completely unsuited to the system and you're a bad man for implying otherwise. Wrong. L1s and L5s can't play together in AL. Also, the encounter, as described, isn't the sort of thing you'd see there. I know making GBS threads on AL is a time-honored pastime, but it's really not as bad a boogeyman as people would have you believe.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:37
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A Bad King posted:For example, we're in this attic, facing down 4 CR5 baddies (plus an additional 2 later on A Bad King posted:It was a lvl 5 human Fighter, two lvl 1 Celestial Warlock, L2 Half-Elf Barbarian ("dandy muscles"), and me, a L5 Lore Bard with no blasters. 
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Sep 5, 2019 19:38
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Splicer posted:Should you choose to go this route you should be aware of the impact this will have on various aspects of the game and advise your players accordingly I wish this was the first sentence in the phb and dmg I'm currently playing in a campaign as a monk with a gm who plays "nat 1 is a spectacular gently caress up" and I'm getting ready to say "let me redesign my character entirely because spending chi to either increase my chances of doing something moronic or force me to be an rear end in a top hat by pretending my 1 was a 2 isn't a Fun Time" Don't collect tax money on free parking and don't house rule nat 1s
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Sep 5, 2019 19:39
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tag yourself i’m “dandy muscles”
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Sep 5, 2019 19:39
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I completely glossed over the numbers when I read it first time, I think my brain was protecting me. I still keep forgetting the CR.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:40
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Splicer posted:...the GM feeding false mechanical information to the players ("probably" in situations where it is known to the GM that it is a numerical certainty) which they are then using to make mechanical choices (expending limited character resources)... I think we're having a miscommunication issue, or an issue in the way we view the game. I never see anything as a certainty when I'm running or playing in a tabletop role playing game - As a DM, I'm simply there to facilitate the players having fun by challenging them with roleplaying, exploration and combat challenges. As a player, I'm there to tell my character's story, and to face the challenges presented to us, knowing that I am at the whim of the storyteller and the dice. In both cases, everyone is there to have fun together. You say that the system is a "crunch heavy setting specific extremely narratively restrictive game" - and I would say it's only as narratively restrictive or crunchy combat simulator as you choose to let it be. Forgive me if I'm misinterpreting, but you appear to see the dice as immutable deciders of fate (which if you're rolling openly, they often are for all parties), almost as if the tabletop game is an MMORPG or some such (and a lot of people try to optimize their characters as though it were). As a player, that is often the case - the dice do determine a lot of what you can or cannot do, or if you fail or succeed. However, as the storyteller, I see my rolls as suggestions that facilitate but do not control the story my friends and I are trying to weave - I bend rolls all the time as a GM to create tension, prevent catastrophe, ensure hilarity, or facilitate progress. I said probably in my post explaining how I phrase to hit rolls narratively not only to account for the randomness of the cutting words, but also to account for the fact that if it's a narratively cool or appropriate time for cutting words/shield to work, I'd probably let it work even if the +5 or random roll wouldn't be enough to save them. In the same vein, if the encounter is going too easily for them, this is a way for me to deal them a stumbling block by burning some resources/hp. I am much more concerned with forging a cool story with my friends, providing them with an experience that feels both challenging and rewarding, than I am in being bound to the mechanics or dice at any given time (because them shits can be fickle, if not outright hostile, at times). Are there better systems for this? Probably - almost certainly. But my friends and I are happy playing with some modifications to these rules, partly because we're familiar with them, partly because who wants to buy a bunch of new books and learn a new system, but mostly because it's D&D, and that's something we've always loved sharing with each other. thespaceinvader posted:organised play DMs drat sure ought to be sticking to the rules as written. For AL stuff, I'll 100% agree with you. I've never played AL, and I doubt I ever will, but if you need to be able to move your character from DM to DM there's no place for house rules. I understand that part of the reason my playstyle likely seems so off to a lot of people is because for many folks, AL is their primary exposure to the hobby, and even if its not, they don't want to stray too far from it.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:41
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pretty soft girl posted:I wish this was the first sentence in the phb and dmg Well that's one way to make Halflings god-kings of the world instantly.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:41
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Willie Tomg posted:Well that's one way to make Halflings god-kings of the world instantly. As is proper. 
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Sep 5, 2019 19:42
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I don't know how a level 5 fighter can be hitting that poorly or why the levels are so all over the place.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:43
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I feel the real moral to that dice thing is "abilities that demand you guess on whether you should use them or not are loving stupid, just pretend it doesn't say 'before the determination'"
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Sep 5, 2019 20:32
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Soysaucebeast posted:
This is why I would recommend the free adventures he gets access to on D&D Beyond with his purchase. As they are designed to continue off from Dragon of Icespire.
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Sep 5, 2019 20:47
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