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Solice Kirsk posted:Sisko is an idiot and fell for the equivalent of selling freshman elevator passes. That or the academy budgets transporter use to keep students on campus.
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Sep 5, 2019 13:45
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Transporter credits, I forgot that line. Every so often some (presumably) well-meaning idiot wrote something that totally wasn’t Star Trek, and it sticks out like a sore thumb. The pinnacle is obviously the ‘warp five speed limit’ episode , but ‘transporter credits’ is up there for ‘I have absolutely no idea what I’m doing, nerds believe any old poo poo, boom’. I’ve come to the conclusion that Star Trek writing is basically like porn: I don’t have a precise definition, but I know it when I see it.
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Sep 5, 2019 14:57
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I figured they were like a leave pass or something.
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Sep 5, 2019 15:04
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Or a way to ensure there's not a continual three-hour wait to transport somewhere. There's a ton of valid reasons transporter credits could be a thing that exist.
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Sep 5, 2019 15:25
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food court bailiff posted:Or a way to ensure there's not a continual three-hour wait to transport somewhere. There's a ton of valid reasons transporter credits could be a thing that exist. Why should transporter rooms be scarce?
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Sep 5, 2019 15:45
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Hughlander posted:Why should transporter rooms be scarce? It's a college campus situation, talking about Starfleet Academy, there's probably different rules there that don't apply to the rest of society.
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Sep 5, 2019 15:47
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Hughlander posted:Why should transporter rooms be scarce? Thranguy posted:You can end scarcity with enough technology in a lot of things, but real estate isn't one of them. also what purple death ray said.
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Sep 5, 2019 15:48
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Hughlander posted:Why should transporter rooms be scarce? Because even in a post-scarcity world you can't replicate the skills and expertise of Transporter Chief Miles O'Brien.
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Sep 5, 2019 16:03
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nonathlon posted:I was going to make a comment on how the Trek universe, like most fantasy universes, hasn't been really thought out much. The Culture novels handled it pretty well. They're ridiculously post scarcity, but just splurging on crap was considered rude. Also, even the idea of personal property was pretty much frowned upon. When you can make literally anything you can think of, what's the point of 'owning' anything. If you lose it or someone takes it, make another. No big deal.
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Sep 5, 2019 16:16
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Megillah Gorilla posted:The Culture novels handled it pretty well. Well, except for keepsakes with sentimental value, that sort of thing. People would still make low-tech stuff by hand as a hobby, etc.
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Sep 5, 2019 16:35
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Torquemada posted:Transporter credits, I forgot that line. Every so often some (presumably) well-meaning idiot wrote something that totally wasn’t Star Trek, and it sticks out like a sore thumb. The pinnacle is obviously the ‘warp five speed limit’ episode , but ‘transporter credits’ is up there for ‘I have absolutely no idea what I’m doing, nerds believe any old poo poo, boom’. Honestly, transporter credits seem fine as an idea. Like, the way the transporter is depicted in TNG/DS9, it's mildly a pain in the rear end to use (to the point where someone like Scotty or O'Brien is needed to run it more or less full-time) and isn't terribly quick; introducing some level of artificial scarcity to the device in environments with a lot of people would be almost necessary, both to keep it from getting clogged up with massive lines, and give the transporter guy some time to go on breaks/sleep/etc.
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Sep 5, 2019 16:59
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Groke posted:Well, except for keepsakes with sentimental value, that sort of thing. People would still make low-tech stuff by hand as a hobby, etc. As seen in "The Most Toys," there will always be someone who will want the real thing.
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Sep 5, 2019 17:17
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Plus the transporters gently caress up constantly and turn people into kids and create mirror universe clones and get bugs under people's eyeballs or whatever happened to Barclay in that one episode. If you don't have an Obrien level operator on hand to fix that poo poo you'd be in trouble. It honestly makes sense to restrict access to them in civilian life
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Sep 5, 2019 17:18
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All that stuff should be automated anyway. If you can make a humanoid robot, you can make an AI transporter console that calculates every possible scenario and react instantaneously. It might also know if you're really teleporting or just killing the original you and creating a whole new entity in the exact same atomic configuration.
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Sep 5, 2019 17:33
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Star Trek's been back and forth on how good the Federation's AI tech is. Doesn't help it was firmly mired in sci-fi that considered 'computer' and 'robot' to be completely different things.
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Sep 5, 2019 17:39
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Krispy Wafer posted:If you can make a humanoid robot, There's like 2 of those in the whole galaxy though, they really can't
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Sep 5, 2019 17:41
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Star Trek's been back and forth on how good the Federation's AI tech is. Doesn't help it was firmly mired in sci-fi that considered 'computer' and 'robot' to be completely different things. Completely autonomous human-sized android is also something they cannot build or replicate without trying to dismantle the only (two) living examples. They also cannot replicate some materials due to being too energy-intensive and in many things the biggest problem seems to be the energy limitations even if they have matter/antimatter reactors in their ships. In this sense the transporter credits, with being an academy and having to have artificial limitations so that everyone gets their share, is sort of plausible. Even their replicators just clone-stamp molecules based on templates and cannot do variations, and transporters assemble and dissemble thing to and from a buffer, which sends the original molecules to the destination via quantum phasing/tubing/something so it eliminates the need to understand what the system is actually making since it just transports that stuff on subatomic level. So their poo poo is advanced, but they do have severe limitations.
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Sep 5, 2019 17:49
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What do they do with waste? Is that broken down to make different items from the atoms or do they just say, 'there will always be more atoms!' Is the consumer consumption system a closed one? Is poop turned back into food or nice loafers?
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Sep 5, 2019 19:36
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Krispy Wafer posted:What do they do with waste? Is that broken down to make different items from the atoms or do they just say, 'there will always be more atoms!' This page exists. I didn't read it. But it exists. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Feces
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Sep 5, 2019 19:39
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Krispy Wafer posted:What do they do with waste? Is that broken down to make different items from the atoms or do they just say, 'there will always be more atoms!' According to some "officialish" books and other materials, yes. But they also include dolphins as navigator crew members so yeah.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:39
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They did their best, but ultimately when you base a decades-spanning sci-fi franchise on an episodic TV show from the '60s, with stories largely pitched by various sci-fi authors, which barely managed to get a third season... Yeah, there are lots of inconsistencies baked into it. Back then they just figured you'd forget if they said something in an episode from 4 months ago that contradicted whatever they were saying now. Even the very nature of The Federation/Starfleet was pretty hard to pin down. And they really had no concern about discovering a technology that would kill any tension in future episodes because that just wasn't what TV was like back then.
Sir Lemming has a new favorite as of 20:10 on Sep 5, 2019 |
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Sep 5, 2019 19:46
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Krispy Wafer posted:It might also know if you're really teleporting or just killing the original you and creating a whole new entity in the exact same atomic configuration. This is just dumb fan-wank, you're fully conscious when being transported and can see other entities in transport so you're clearly not dying and being rebuilt or whatever. You see it happen but it's in a Barclay episode so everyone just writes it off.
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Sep 5, 2019 19:54
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Der Kyhe posted:According to some "officialish" books and other materials, yes. But they also include dolphins as navigator crew members so yeah. Ah, so it takes place further in the Aero Fighters timeline 
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Sep 5, 2019 23:06
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Toshimo posted:This page exists. I didn't read it. But it exists. https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Feces I think we know what really happens...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5F1caIhrBU
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Sep 6, 2019 01:32
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This is from a while a ago but Mars Attacks loving rules and is like a top 5 Burton
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Sep 6, 2019 01:57
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Krispy Wafer posted:All that stuff should be automated anyway. If you can make a humanoid robot, you can make an AI transporter console that calculates every possible scenario and react instantaneously. that's great but every week they run into a new impossible scenario and the computer fucks up anyway
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Sep 6, 2019 02:17
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Krispy Wafer posted:All that stuff should be automated anyway. If you can make a humanoid robot, you can make an AI transporter console that calculates every possible scenario and react instantaneously. It might also know if you're really teleporting or just killing the original you and creating a whole new entity in the exact same atomic configuration. Fatal transporter accidents are portrayed as horrendously rare. The show has non-fatal ones on the regular but by the end of the episode people are usually totally fine again. Even then the portrayal is that transporters are way safer than, say, cars.
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Sep 6, 2019 02:52
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Krispy Wafer posted:All that stuff should be automated anyway. weren't unwanted copies of the emergency medical hologram program recycled into... waste management workers or something?
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Sep 6, 2019 02:59
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yeah it's basically yet another colonialist society built on slavery
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Sep 6, 2019 03:01
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ToxicSlurpee posted:Fatal transporter accidents are portrayed as horrendously rare. The show has non-fatal ones on the regular but by the end of the episode people are usually totally fine again. Even then the portrayal is that transporters are way safer than, say, cars. Using a transporter to move between two well used and carefully calibrated stations (Starfleet to New Orleans) seems like it’d be way easier than transporter use done randomly out while exploring or even around/to various alien ships and planets, requiring and O’Brien figure rather than just a bored techie. The risks we see happen to explorers and on stations out in deep space where things are less explored and more variable.
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Sep 6, 2019 03:44
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Transporters are perfectly safe. You're more likely to die in a Shuttlecraft on your way to the transport bay than using a transporter.
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Sep 6, 2019 03:49
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Detective No. 27 posted:Transporters are perfectly safe. You're more likely to die in a Shuttlecraft on your way to the transport bay than using a transporter. Typical transporter-bro arrogance, yes they don't kill you as much but I've never seen anyone come out of a shuttlecraft decades younger than when they started or split into a good half and an evil half.
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Sep 6, 2019 03:55
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Don Gato posted:Typical transporter-bro arrogance, yes they don't kill you as much but I've never seen anyone come out of a shuttlecraft decades younger than when they started or split into a good half and an evil half. Voyager has an incident where a shuttle turns you into a salamander, so it's kind of a wash.
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Sep 6, 2019 03:56
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Transporters blessed the universe with a second, even hornier Riker, so they're alright in my book.
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Sep 6, 2019 03:57
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Crowetron posted:Voyager has an incident where a shuttle turns you into a salamander, so it's kind of a wash. In the shuttle's defense that was not the shuttle's fault but rather that some dipshit decided to find out what happens when you exceed warp ten.
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Sep 6, 2019 03:58
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Also that was safely and easily reversed.
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Sep 6, 2019 04:02
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Detective No. 27 posted:Transporters blessed the universe with a second, even hornier Riker, so they're alright in my book. 
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Sep 6, 2019 06:13
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Well, there was that one time where it went rather less well. What they got back didn't live long. Fortunately.
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Sep 6, 2019 06:25
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st:tmp was so good but they were a little overzealous about showing off their big new hollywood budget
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Sep 6, 2019 06:40
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I feel like a lot of things about transporters and replicators make sense considering they're probably very energy-inefficient to use flippantly, but when you're on a starship or space station with a regularly supplied power source, it's a negligible drain to give everyone a replicator in their room to make breakfast. DS9 has some interesting things with how humans and the Ferengi get along; on one hand, many humans are model customers, well-off, friendly and happy to spend their Latinum stipends on luxuries and novelties that the Ferengi businesses offer. In the episode where Bashir and O'Brien are thought dead, Quark even specifically mourns them with a Rule of Acquisition about good customers. On the other hand, humans find Ferengi to be an unpleasant reminder of the capitalist past that nearly destroyed them, and the Ferengi who have any knowledge of history know it, and mostly just think humans weren't smart or sensible enough to do capitalism properly. But Rom and Nog's whole arc demonstrates what the Ferengi really fear- that the Federation's going to make the losers that their capitalism requires realise they don't have to put up with it.
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Sep 6, 2019 08:14
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