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poo poo that isn't the program I am currently using should never be able to draw on top of said program. If it's so goddamn important I have to read it NOW, it's definitely too important to risk me unintentionally typing into it and closing it without ever realizing what the gently caress it was. e: new page, gonna repost my question from last week since it got missed: Javid posted:On my recently resurrected tablet, pairing my Bluetooth headphones to it shits out. Like its bluetooth stack can't handle it or something, despite the headphones having Just Worked with literally every other device I have paired them to in the last 2 years I've had the things. Fully updated Windows 7, as in zero packages available, apparently the last ~decade of windows updates I spent last weekend shoving down the thing didn't include that. The only useful-looking google hit said to install a third party thing that didn't do poo poo, so I'm hoping somebody knows more than me here about windows 7 bluetooth poo poo I guess.
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Sep 5, 2019 21:54
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Javid posted:poo poo that isn't the program I am currently using should never be able to draw on top of said program. If it's so goddamn important I have to read it NOW, it's definitely too important to risk me unintentionally typing into it and closing it without ever realizing what the gently caress it was. What about when a program is launching another program on the user's request, let's say Steam launching your preferred game? Should the game just launch in the background? Can't really help you with your bluetooth problem, but I have to question why you're running Win7 (EOL, extended support ends come January) on a tablet (did it even come loaded with 7 in the first place? They're all 8/10 that I can think of). Can't really do anything besides hope there's newer drivers on the chip manufacturer's website anyways.
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Sep 6, 2019 04:53
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It's a swivel screen from 2008, it came with Vista. It's on 7 because the last drivers for the digitizer hardware are, as far as I know, Vista/7 only, and that the thing is pretty great for drawing is the only reason I'm even using it over a device made in the current decade. Re: games, yes, it can sit in the background and flash its taskbar icon, the effort required to manually click on it is worth never having poo poo pop up while I'm working.
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Sep 6, 2019 05:03
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Windows has some pretty complex mechanisms in place to attempt to prevent focus stealing, while also allowing applications the user is interacting with to intentionally transfer focus ownership to a different application. It's just that it's so complex there's definitely ways to exploit/circumvent it. I mostly have focus stealing happen with Internet Explorer. I only use it at work for internal systems, but it's a constant annoyance having it pop back up after it finishes loading a page or whatever. Foreground activation permission is like love: You can’t steal it, it has to be given to you You don't need to steal focus if you can just arrange for someone to give it to you
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Sep 6, 2019 13:34
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Factor Mystic posted:What if "within the program" is actually a separate instance of the process (eg, for stability)? What if it's another exe altogether (eg, just for status/notifications)? What if it's not actually from the same vendor (eg, a plugin of some kind?). What if that process spawns another process (see prior permutations)? Just give me the option to disable it 100% of the time and I'll deal with the consequences. I'm an adult dammit! Nothing can be accomplished with focus stealing that a taskbar notification can't do.
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Sep 6, 2019 15:47
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What if the app doesn't have a taskbar button
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Sep 6, 2019 17:15
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So MS is bringing back PowerToys for Win10! First release out now, including a nice window-gridding app. Hearing PowerToys again after so long gives me warm fuzzies. Factor Mystic posted:What if the app doesn't have a taskbar button Then you use notifications in the tray. Now you will say, what if the app doesn't have a taskbar button or a tray icon? Why does an app that requires user input have no interface that the user can interact with?
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Sep 6, 2019 17:34
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it's much like how I have to occasionally manually allow popups on a site that uses them for legitimate purposes; it's annoying, but far better than the alternative.
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Sep 6, 2019 19:15
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isndl posted:What about when a program is launching another program on the user's request, let's say Steam launching your preferred game? Should the game just launch in the background? Right now programs that are launched seem to be able to grab focus long, long after they were actually started. And some things magically steal focus from nowhere at all. It wouldn't be very hard to block those, but microsoft hates polish and they care a lot about the inevitable whining from businesses that their incorrectly-designed code can't steal what it wants any more. Dylan16807 fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 21:04
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Klyith posted:Then you use notifications in the tray.
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Sep 6, 2019 21:40
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Dylan16807 posted:Easy. You allow Steam to give its own focus to the game, but if the user clicks off of Steam before the game tries to grab focus, then it fails. Maybe allow a grace period of 2-3 seconds in case the user is a compulsive clicker and launching out of the system tray. That's not even needed: when a program is launched is one of the times that Windows allows them to take focus without being handed permission by the currently-focused window. On the assumption that if you are launching a program you want to see it. Occasionally this has unwanted effects, like when MS's own Office Updater was bugged and popped up a focus-stealing command box for half of a second every time it ran -- which was like once an hour via scheduled task. The OS let it steal focus with no trouble. Here's the answer to almost every question about focus-stealing: if a developer isn't smart enough to figure out methods to do things the correct way they, shouldn't be writing user software. VS or other IDEs are one of the very few exceptions, because focus-stealing on breakpoints can be absolutely necessary (because you might be coding something that's gonna explode the OS and without focus-stealing you'd never be able to debug). But it's kinda amazing that it took so long to add the option to not do that. edit: Ghostlight posted:A non-zero amount of times a month I have to fix someone's Excel issue where the program is completely unresponsive and just dings whenever they try to click something and the problem is always an formula error message that's popped under the Excel client and is only accessible through Win-Tab because it has no independent taskbar existence and minimises with the program itself. Again, not a real problem: the message box is part of excel and should have equal priority with it's parent window. If excel has focus and wants to display a message box it doesn't need to ask permission. This is not a problem that needs to be solved by focus-stealing (and isn't caused by windows preventing focus-stealing in the first place). It's just a poor design decision / a fuckup by excel. double edit: evidently this is most often caused by office add-ins, in which case those are loving up and need to be fixed. Klyith fucked around with this message at 21:58 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 21:49
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Oh sorry, I wasn't arguing for focus stealing, just sharing a pet peeve about how hard it is to get focus right either way.
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Sep 6, 2019 22:48
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Ghostlight posted:Oh sorry, I wasn't arguing for focus stealing, just sharing a pet peeve about how hard it is to get focus right either way. ah, ok. yeah. It's a bit thorny, but the specifications are that way for a reason. Though one of the problems with MS is how often they violate their own specs. I bet the dialogue that blocks input but can be hidden below its parent is one of those things that shouldn't even be possible, but the office team made it happen anyways. It's particularly troublesome for people who aren't trained / experienced enough to recognize something like the little ding sound means their window has gone non-interactive because a dialogue window they don't see is blocking input. With the way that the windows taskbar has worked since 7, I feel like standard dialogue boxes could be represented on the taskbar now. In the old days that would be a problem because taskbar space was way more premium. But now with everything folded down to single icons normally, they could put things like that in the list.
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Sep 7, 2019 01:49
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Klyith posted:ah, ok. yeah. It's a bit thorny, but the specifications are that way for a reason. Though one of the problems with MS is how often they violate their own specs. I bet the dialogue that blocks input but can be hidden below its parent is one of those things that shouldn't even be possible, but the office team made it happen anyways. Or they want to sell you on Teams so they make it startup right in the middle of your screen in the hope off tricking users to click on it. It would be funny if it wasn't so loving cheap.
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Sep 7, 2019 09:29
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Klyith posted:That's not even needed: when a program is launched is one of the times that Windows allows them to take focus without being handed permission by the currently-focused window. That's the exact problem, and the thing that needs a way to be disabled. It's not a good feature. I guess my point is that it's pretty easy to replace it with a version that's not fundamentally broken.
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Sep 7, 2019 10:12
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Force programs to load quietly in the background then create a taskbar button that flashes when they're done. Too many apps think they're so important we need a splash screen with a progress bar, gently caress off to the task bar and I'll get to you when I get to you.
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Sep 7, 2019 17:21
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Javid posted:Force programs to load quietly in the background then create a taskbar button that flashes when they're done. Too many apps think they're so important we need a splash screen with a progress bar, gently caress off to the task bar and I'll get to you when I get to you. Too many users then wouldn't be able to find the program they just opened, causing them to attempt to open it again. And again. And again...
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Sep 7, 2019 18:20
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That's a pebkac problem, not a programming issue.
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Sep 7, 2019 18:41
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Javid posted:That's a pebkac problem go into properties of your shortcuts, set them to run: minimized it's you, you were the pebkac  edit: it is true that splash loading screens for apps are a vestigial remnant nowadays. when PCs had 1 cpu it was a good way to say your computer is gonna be busy while we load this poo poo, rather than just use the hourglass mouse and no other indication. but even a junk PC these days is multicore, loading a big app like photoshop doesn't interrupt other things. Klyith fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Sep 7, 2019 |
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Sep 7, 2019 18:53
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Dylan16807 posted:Right now programs that are launched seem to be able to grab focus long, long after they were actually started. And some things magically steal focus from nowhere at all. It wouldn't be very hard to block those, but microsoft hates polish and they care a lot about the inevitable whining from businesses that their incorrectly-designed code can't steal what it wants any more. Nvidia Experience is a real poo poo about this while it's updating the graphics drivers, especially since it's just showing rotating ads.
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Sep 7, 2019 19:16
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Mr Shiny Pants posted:Or they want to sell you on Teams so they make it startup right in the middle of your screen in the hope off tricking users to click on it.
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Sep 8, 2019 05:00
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Ghostlight posted:Your IT team can turn that off. True, if they knew it was coming down from O365.......
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Sep 8, 2019 18:35
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Javid posted:That's a pebkac problem, not a programming issue. That would be a major usability and accessibility issue and not a programming issue, yes.
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Sep 8, 2019 19:12
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Ghostlight posted:Your IT team can turn that off. Yeah, I'm in charge of the client side rollout of O365 at my job, and I turned teams off.
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Sep 8, 2019 20:28
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Mr Shiny Pants posted:True, if they knew it was coming down from O365.......
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Sep 8, 2019 22:41
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the windows shortcut indicator is a hideous ui element, isn't it? do all my desktop icons really need it? i was surprised there still isn't a system toggle to turn them off (i know you can do it with a registry edit)
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Sep 9, 2019 00:12
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Rinkles posted:the windows shortcut indicator is a hideous ui element, isn't it? do all my desktop icons really need it? i was surprised there still isn't a system toggle to turn them off (i know you can do it with a registry edit) It used to be an option in powertoys. Now that that's being made for Windows 10 maybe it'll find its way in.
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Sep 9, 2019 00:16
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Ghostlight posted:There was like a dozen emails since 2018 communicating that it would be bundled into the 2019 deployments by default, and could be disabled through the config XML, and if not then the auto-launch could be disabled through GPO. I'll ask them, but it still seems a silly thing to do, make it opt in.
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Sep 9, 2019 06:13
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Statutory Ape posted:as somebody that never used windows vista, i remember the era fondly I still have the boxed copy I bought on release day. By Win7 I had wised up and just bought a technet subscription
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Sep 10, 2019 01:04
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I had windows vista business edition thru my school or somethin. And some other free version of windows 7 that I’m not sure how I got but would it would put the page in French when I used the key to download the iso
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Sep 10, 2019 01:23
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Win popped up with a warning that there's a problem with my ms account. Logging in with it fixes it for a random amount of time (days) Is this install just hosed? GRINDCORE MEGGIDO fucked around with this message at 02:49 on Sep 10, 2019 |
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Sep 10, 2019 02:46
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GRINDCORE MEGGIDO posted:Win popped up with a warning that there's a problem with my ms account. Logging in with it fixes it for a random amount of time (days) I've had that a few times, but the sign in usually lasts more than a few days (usually months). I assume it's the issued authentication key expiring but I have no idea what's causing yours to expire so much more quickly. 
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Sep 10, 2019 03:41
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I've had it pop up on my notebook that isn't even signed in to my ms account. I'd say it's their activation servers being garbage.
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Sep 10, 2019 10:44
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What are the likely problem(s) when you get a sudden BSOD (well, light blue with the sad smiley) in Windows 10? My computer was just playing a simple video file streamed to my TV, and it froze up completely with the last bit of sounds looping very quickly. The message said "we are collecting info then you can turn the computer off" but the progress was stuck on 0% so I just turned it off. It started up fine a few minutes later.
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Sep 10, 2019 12:11
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No other message? Like at the bottom right? I just had to deal with this on my moms new Dell laptop. DRIVER_IRQ_NOT_OR_LESS_EQUAL or whatever it says. It pointed to a .sys file that I googled to find it was the Qualcomm wireless network driver. Updated that and no problems since. 90% of the time, a bsod is caused by a bad driver in my experience
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Sep 10, 2019 13:01
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I don't remember seeing a message
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Sep 10, 2019 13:33
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Geemer posted:I've had it pop up on my notebook that isn't even signed in to my ms account. I'd say it's their activation servers being garbage. Ive seen this randomly on enterprise as well.
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Sep 10, 2019 14:19
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namlosh posted:No other message? Like at the bottom right? Bad wireless drivers in particular have had younger me swapping hardware left and right to diagnose wtf Valuable lessons learned
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Sep 10, 2019 14:37
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PirateBob posted:I don't remember seeing a message Take a (legible) picture of it next time.
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Sep 10, 2019 16:13
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Have a look in event viewer under critical events or whatever
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Sep 10, 2019 16:32
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