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Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce, the third, fourth, fifth, and sixth times, also farce.
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Sep 6, 2019 17:29
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:It would be really cool if like some Deep Mind Terminator that looked like a scuttling insect that unfolded into a weird near non-Euclidian shape came back from 20400 and just went ham on every other Terminator. Lovecraft really hosed that word up, math teachers must hate that guy
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Sep 6, 2019 17:36
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Halloween Jack posted:Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce, the third, fourth, fifth, and sixth times, also farce. Seventh time: as a Terminator
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Sep 6, 2019 17:41
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Halloween Jack posted:Hegel remarks somewhere that all great world-historic facts appear, so to speak, twice. He forgot to add: the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce, the third, fourth, fifth, and sixth times, also farce. Megaman's Jockstrap posted:Seventh time: as a Terminator my new Terminator concept: From 2029, a Terminator is sent back to 1984 to assassinate Sarah Connor, future mother of resistance leader John Connor. To protect Sarah Connor and preserve the timeline, resistance soldier Kyle Reese is sent back. Kyle Reese is sent back. Kyle Reese is sent back. Kyle Reese is sent back. Kyle Reese is sent back. Kyle Reese is sent back. Kyle Reese is sent back. Kyle Reese is sent back. Kyle Reese is sent back. Kyle Reese is sent back. Kyle Reese is sent back. Kyle Reese is sent back. Kyle Reese is sent back. Only one is real. And from the same unknown origin as the imposter Kyles, a polyalloy/endoskeleton combo Terminator also arrives in 1984, immediately splitting into independently functioning halves and going into a desperate mad sprint to stop them.
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Sep 6, 2019 20:12
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Happy Noodle Boy posted:Cameron ruined Terminator by introducing the T-1000. Cameron ruined Terminator by having a sequel, period. Like, I love T2 as much as the next guy (the only downside I have for it is that I've simply watched so many various versions of it, plus bonus content, that the well has completely run dry), but man did it set the precedent that you can always say there's another last-ditch attempt by Skynet to send yet another Terminator, followed by yet another protector, blah blah blah. I suppose a case could be made that Cameron being involved means it'll be fine, but ehhh. Who knows, maybe with Cameron in (some sort of) control, it'll be different. Terminator 1 was a simple, clean story, especially with the bonus ending bit where it's revealed that the place she fought the Terminator was Cyberdyne. Both leaders of a future war have been created by that which was sent back to do so, there will be a terrible war, but humanity will ultimately overcome it. e: vvv kinda. I explained it in an earlier post, but the long and short of it is that events of T1 changed the end-of-the-future-war stuff. It's all weird. MisterBibs fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 6, 2019 20:16
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the t-1000 was sent back at/from the same time the t-800 was sent back to kill sarah connor.
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Sep 6, 2019 20:27
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Groovelord Neato posted:the t-1000 was sent back at/from the same time the t-800 was sent back to kill sarah connor.
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Sep 6, 2019 20:36
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Fish Noise posted:my new Terminator concept: the T-1000 arrives in 1995 only to find the already-successful 1984 T-800 waiting for it. the rest is bizarre roommate comedy. Also their third roommate is Balki from Perfect Strangers for some reason.
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Sep 6, 2019 20:37
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I mean, it would also be extremely funny if the Terminators killed John Connor and it didn't matter at all because the Great Man Theory is bunk.Basebf555 posted:Also their third roommate is Balki from Perfect Strangers for some reason. COOOZIN AHNULD
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Sep 6, 2019 22:12
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Megaman's Jockstrap posted:I mean, it would also be extremely funny if the Terminators killed John Connor and it didn't matter at all because the Great Man Theory is bunk.
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Sep 6, 2019 23:03
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Fried Watermelon posted:Should have put her in Mortal Kombat alongside Arnold She's a skin for Sonya
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Sep 6, 2019 23:27
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MisterBibs posted:Cameron ruined Terminator by having a sequel, period. Like, I love T2 as much as the next guy (the only downside I have for it is that I've simply watched so many various versions of it, plus bonus content, that the well has completely run dry), but man did it set the precedent that you can always say there's another last-ditch attempt by Skynet to send yet another Terminator, followed by yet another protector, blah blah blah. I suppose a case could be made that Cameron being involved means it'll be fine, but ehhh. Who knows, maybe with Cameron in (some sort of) control, it'll be different. I watched Terminator 1 the other night on Amazon Prime because I couldn't sleep and honestly I have to agree, T2 was a mistake. It's a wonderful piece of filmmaking but it ruins the story set up in the first movie and flips the series from "feverish horror thriller" to "action movie overload". The narrative allowances of the sequel completely undermine the stakes and worldbuilding of the first movie. If Skynet had time to send a T-1000 back, why send it to 1992? Why not 1984, to kill Sarah Connor in the hospital as she recovers from the encounter with the T-800? It also opens the door to endless sequels, because there's always another time machine and another upgraded Terminator and another reprogrammed T-800.
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Sep 7, 2019 02:47
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Still worth it because T2 is just that good.
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Sep 7, 2019 02:56
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Mat Cauthon posted:It also opens the door to endless sequels, because there's always another time machine and another upgraded Terminator and another reprogrammed T-800. my new Terminator concept: physical displacement time travel is not possible. but, from within a tesseract, a human and an abstractly blocky Terminator have a window into the past, and can send back messages encoded in pulses of energy.
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Sep 7, 2019 03:40
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Basebf555 posted:Still worth it because T2 is just that good. T2 is good but every time I watch it John Connor gets worse
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Sep 7, 2019 04:20
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I wanted to watch a Terminator something because I was hype from the Dark Fate trailer, and ugh. Terminator is one of those franchises where I like the theory of it more than the actual execution. T2 was great but I must have seen it 30 times by now, and basically nothing else they've done can be described any better than "fun but flawed." I rewatched Genisys and just... ugh. The actor they used for John Connor seems way out-of-place, he should be the bad guy in a corporate boardroom Wall Street kinda movie, not an unstoppable terminator. And Emilia Clarke is just awful, and convinces me that it was a total fluke that her terrible monotone acting turned out to be a good fit for Daenerys. (I actually didn't mind bodybuilder Kyle Reese, he was decent.) And then I watched Salvation, which I thought was a pretty mediocre action movie, nothing special. It did have my all-time favorite scene where the T-800 picks up John Connor and instead of immediately breaking his neck, just throws him into walls and equipment for five minutes until he slinks away alive and well. I was gonna do TSCC, but that many episodes of TV are a much bigger timesink than a movie, and I do remember it dragging quite a bit. I wish they'd just nailed it at some point with a director and/or set of actors and churned out another couple A+ Terminator films.
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Sep 7, 2019 15:36
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 This is like the only instance in all of nerd-dom of the superstrong bad guy getting his hands on the fragile good guy and just instantly crushing him instead of throwing him around and failing to hurt him.
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Sep 7, 2019 16:03
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Fish Noise posted:and another timeline and another time war and another emergent AI and- Cmon tars
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Sep 7, 2019 17:15
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Mat Cauthon posted:If Skynet had time to send a T-1000 back, why send it to 1992? Why not 1984, to kill Sarah Connor in the hospital as she recovers from the encounter with the T-800? It also opens the door to endless sequels, because there's always another time machine and another upgraded Terminator and another reprogrammed T-800. as insurance. and nah the sequels don't do it the same way T2 does. the T-1000 is sent back from the same future the T-800 was to kill sarah connor. every other sequel is "uhhh judgment day still happens but later".
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Sep 7, 2019 17:45
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Phenotype posted:Terminator is one of those franchises where I like the theory of it more than the actual execution. I feel like this is generally how I feel. T1 is a fine film, T2 is an awesome film, but... I don't think I want any more than what we got. I didn't mention it in my above post, but one thing that could have prevented the precedent I mentioned is if T2 had its original (I think?) ending of Grandma Connor in a park, handling her grandchild, watching Adult John playing in a park in a happy future*. It would've been a closure that, sure, might not've, but at least it would have been more concrete than "Do we know if there's going to be something down the line?  ".* I always found the off-hand comment that even in the happy future, Adult John was still fighting Skynet, by being a senator and preventing whatever-future-version-of-Skynet from being funded, was a nice wrinkle.
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Sep 7, 2019 19:00
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I like the mental image of adult John Connor swinging on a swingset by himself while his mom takes care of his kid
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Sep 7, 2019 21:09
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Sodomy Hussein posted:T2 is good but every time I watch it John Connor gets worse She's not my mother, TODD
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Sep 7, 2019 21:14
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Let's face it, we know what's going to happen. DF will start with Chunky John Connor being upstanding in a 'gonna prevent a robot holocaust' kind of way when an Arnold T-800 walks in, greets him, then 'shockingly' kills him. (Hence Sarah's hatred of Beardy Arnold.) Several years later, the rest of the movie will happen. Because, does anyone seriously think they're going to bring back Edward Furlong for the entire movie? I'm getting fed up with continuations of series taking the "which major character can we kill for shock value?" approach. It doesn't even have to be a literal kill, just having them be so out of character (because they're written by people who had nothing to do with the original) that they might as well be a different person. There's obviously "let's wind back his development 30 years then kill Han Solo!" in TFA, but there are also things like "let's make John Connor into a villainous super-Terminator!" in this franchise, or "let's make Scotty a lazy alcoholic bullshitter!" or "let's have Kirk tell the Federation to gently caress off so he can ride horses and fry eggs! And then drop a bridge on him" in Star Trek: TNG.
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Sep 7, 2019 23:21
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Groovelord Neato posted:the T-1000 is sent back from the same future the T-800 was to kill sarah connor. every other sequel is "uhhh judgment day still happens but later". That's still loving dumb, though. In T1, the T-800 was the last ditch effort to turn the tide by defying the laws of nature and whatnot. In T2, the T-1000 is another, far superior last ditch effort, sent along with the other one, but, you know, to a later time. As... a failsafe. Why not send the two assholes to T1's time? Imagine Kyle Reese fighting off Arnold only to turn around and get shanked. Skynet had the means to dogpile Sarah Connor with nightmare robots in 1984. It didn't for *reasons*, and that got us the action blockbustet equivalent of the loving Hellraiser franchise.
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Sep 8, 2019 00:43
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When do they explicitly say the T-1000 was sent from the same future as the T-800? I always thought the T-1000 was sent from a different future reflecting the changes that the T-800 rampage made to the timeline.
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Sep 8, 2019 01:15
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Phenotype posted:When do they explicitly say the T-1000 was sent from the same future as the T-800? I always thought the T-1000 was sent from a different future reflecting the changes that the T-800 rampage made to the timeline. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fXfJlET4PSI I can't find the clip online but there's another segment in the movie where they say explicitly that the Resistance in the future discovers that the T-1000 got sent after the T-800 from T1 and sent back the reprogrammed T-800 before they blew up the time machine. The T2 story adds a pretty significant wrinkle to the closed loop airtight narrative of T1 (the actions of the future directly result in the creation of both John Connor and Skynet) that again, don't really make sense if you think about it. If they can send the T-1000 back to 1992 then they can send it back to 1984 or 1977 or whenever. If John's actions in T2 stop Skynet, does that mean that humanity is free of an eventual war with the machines? The later sequels take these and run with it. T3 is the "machine war is our fate no matter what", Genisys is the "what's stopping Skynet from sending a T-whatever back to kill Sarah Connor as a baby", "What if Skynet corrupts John Connor", etc. Again T2 is one of the all time great action movies and I'm happy to watch it whenever it's on TV or I need to kill a couple of hours but it got the stone rolling on the incremental degradation of the internal logic of the series and I highly doubt DF is going to turn that around, even if it does look fun. Mat Cauthon fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Sep 8, 2019 |
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Sep 8, 2019 02:53
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this has me looking at Terminator clips on Youtube and I don't think I ever noticed before that there's actually a specific bit in 1 just for singing off the Arnie's eyebrows. I assume this helped simplify the subsequent animatronic eye surgery part.
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Sep 8, 2019 08:19
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Mat Cauthon posted:The T2 story adds a pretty significant wrinkle to the closed loop airtight narrative of T1 (the actions of the future directly result in the creation of both John Connor and Skynet) that again, don't really make sense if you think about it. Start from the ending. The events of Terminator 1 may loop any number of times, but something eventually happens: in one iteration of the loop, the Arnold brain chip is somehow destroyed, preventing Cyberdyne from ever obtaining it. This offscreen event ‘should’ create a universe-ending time paradox... yet it simply doesn’t. How? Arnold must exist, because he always-already existed as a historical fact. How can he exist if his creators are eliminated? The only explanation is that someone else (besides Cyberdyne) builds a copy of Arnold and sends him back to ensure that he will exist, thereby saving the universe. This act creates the new time-loop that we see in T2. Cyberdyne may be destroyed, but causality ripples through the universe and a different corporation will now build its own AI with liquid-metal drones. To counter it, the Resistance will build at least two Arnolds, and send them back in time. Arnold 1 preserves the universe, while Arnold 2 is sent to combat the T-1000. The T-1000 is therefore actually attempting to save Cyberdyne from its fate. Before T2 even begins, the heroes’ victory is already inevitable.
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Sep 8, 2019 10:07
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Phenotype posted:When do they explicitly say the T-1000 was sent from the same future as the T-800? I always thought the T-1000 was sent from a different future reflecting the changes that the T-800 rampage made to the timeline. it's said explicitly in the movie (i also couldn't find the clip) but even if it wasn't that's what you should assume. the "different future" stuff doesn't start happening until 3. Mat Cauthon posted:Genisys is the "what's stopping Skynet from sending a T-whatever back to kill Sarah Connor as a baby" they didn't know where she was back then. most records were destroyed in the war - it's why the terminator has to go through the phone book and just kill everyone named sarah connor. Fish Noise posted:this has me looking at Terminator clips on Youtube and I don't think I ever noticed before that there's actually a specific bit in 1 just for singing off the Arnie's eyebrows. I assume this helped simplify the subsequent animatronic eye surgery part. when i was younger i didn't even realize it was his eyebrows that were gone despite realizing something was wrong with his face. Groovelord Neato fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Sep 8, 2019 |
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Sep 8, 2019 13:24
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Grendels Dad posted:That's still loving dumb, though. In T1, the T-800 was the last ditch effort to turn the tide by defying the laws of nature and whatnot. In T2, the T-1000 is another, far superior last ditch effort, sent along with the other one, but, you know, to a later time. As... a failsafe. The weird time travel answer, as I understand it, is that Skynet sending the T1000 back was a hail-mary, in that once the events of T1 caused the end-of-the-future to change accordingly, Skynet put two and two together and realized that it must've sent back a T800 that failed, and that time had changed so that it had better technology (read: a T1000) so, gently caress it, might as well use it. Send the T800 back to maintain continuity, send the T1000 back to really get the job done. Another answer - and this comes from that long-forgotten Terminator website that I'm not sure where it got it sources, so for all I know it could be just fanfiction - Skynet was sending the T1000 back pretty much just to get rid of it. It was, frankly, terrified that a T1000 was going to get uppity against Skynet. You could flip a switch on a T800 so it doesn't get too smart and start getting ideas; it can't do that with a bunch of liquid metal.
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Sep 8, 2019 18:55
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The rogue T-1000 theory could based on the show. The one in TSCC escapes from containment in the future, goes to the past and starts its own rebel faction. I don't remember if it's explicitly stated, but the initial containment implies they can't be trusted.
Attack on Princess fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Sep 8, 2019 |
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Sep 8, 2019 19:08
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MisterBibs posted:Another answer - and this comes from that long-forgotten Terminator website that I'm not sure where it got it sources, so for all I know it could be just fanfiction - Skynet was sending the T1000 back pretty much just to get rid of it. It was, frankly, terrified that a T1000 was going to get uppity against Skynet. You could flip a switch on a T800 so it doesn't get too smart and start getting ideas; it can't do that with a bunch of liquid metal.
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Sep 8, 2019 20:07
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:The only explanation is that someone else (besides Cyberdyne) builds a copy of Arnold and sends him back to ensure that he will exist, thereby saving the universe. This act creates the new time-loop that we see in T2. Cyberdyne may be destroyed, but causality ripples through the universe and a different corporation will now build its own AI with liquid-metal drones. To counter it, the Resistance will build at least two Arnolds, and send them back in time. Arnold 1 preserves the universe, while Arnold 2 is sent to combat the T-1000.
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Sep 8, 2019 21:36
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david_a posted:I know exactly what fan site you’re talking about but I can’t find it. That guy wrote all kinds of plausible-sounding fan fiction about how Skynet worked, its strategies, etc. I don’t think any of it was “official” but he spent a lot more time thinking through things than anybody else in charge of the franchise has. I gotchu I loved reading those pages. I think he pulled a lot of it from novelizations so it's technically canon?
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Sep 9, 2019 00:48
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Yeah, the T-1000s being smart and Skynet being concerned comes from the T2 novel.
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Sep 9, 2019 03:16
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Like let’s break down the future-backstory of T2: “Skynet sent two Terminators back through time. Their mission: to destroy the leader of the human Resistance. John Connor. My son. The first Terminator was programmed to strike at me in the year 1984, before John was born. It failed. The second was set to strike at John himself when he was still a child. As before, the Resistance was able to send a lone warrior...” Right off the bat, Sarah Connor is an unreliable narrator. She hasn’t been to the future, and so doesn’t actually know any of this firsthand. The above quote is Sarah’s interpretation of the sparse evidence made available to her over the course of the films. The accompanying future-war imagery, however vivid, is her imagination - based mainly on what Reese told her in the previous film. The narration is also very deliberately ambiguous as to whether the two robots were sent back simultaneously, as a kind of joint strike, or whether the T-1000 was sent back as a response to the original T-800’s failure. This is because Sarah ultimately doesn’t know. Nobody knows. Even ‘Uncle Bob’ is unreliable; once Dyson is convinced to stop his research, this new T-800 must have been programmed with false information: “The man most directly responsible is Miles Bennett Dyson. He's the director of special projects at Cyberdyne Systems Corporation. In a few months, he creates a revolutionary type of microprocessor. [...] I have detailed files.” Those “detailed files” were evidently falsified by the future John Connor in order to prevent a time-paradox. The information was true in a previous time-loop, but is no longer true in this one. So the curious thing in T2 is that the T-1000 is a total blank. All we know for sure is that it comes from an “unknown future” and is trying to kill John Connor. Nothing else is certain.
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Sep 9, 2019 06:25
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Grendels Dad posted:That's still loving dumb, though. In T1, the T-800 was the last ditch effort to turn the tide by defying the laws of nature and whatnot. In T2, the T-1000 is another, far superior last ditch effort, sent along with the other one, but, you know, to a later time. As... a failsafe. I just always assumed that it was sent to the only other time they had any sort of information on John or Sarah. The assumption was that it had two terminators ready to be sent back in time as its failsafe, but rather than send them both after Sarah, it diversified its targets. Send one after her, one after him. That way if one fails to find its target, runs into some unforeseen complication or otherwise gets its rear end handed to it, you've got a second shot.
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Sep 9, 2019 09:34
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You're missing the most concrete reason why the T-1000 was sent to the 90s to kill 10-year-old John rather than his mother in the 80s. It had to wait for John to become old enough to become vulnerable to the T-1000s greatest weapon, urinal mimicry.
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Sep 9, 2019 13:20
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Crossposting from the trailer thread—Adobe is running a contest to cut a Dark Fate trailer (https://terminator.adobe.com/challenge), remixing the assets that they provide. Winner gets $10k. Here's my entry  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=exrPB8eTGVE
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Sep 20, 2019 20:51
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That's pretty drat good, although I can tell you were constrained by the assets they gave you. I can't believe you don't do this for a living.
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Sep 20, 2019 21:10
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