Private Speech posted:

I like this bit from the Guardian:


Big brain Cummings.

Sanitary Naptime posted:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-secret-brexit-plan-19856454

Interesting nuclear option, and the timing could work out as a nightmare because it’ll gently caress up the opposition nuclear option to prevent no deal. Hear me out.

If Johnson refuses to provide someone on the 18th October, it leaves 13 days until no deal hits.

The nuclear option on the opposition end is to no confidence the government and install a caretaker PM to go to Brussels and get the extension.

Under the FTPA, the no confidence motion gives two weeks to the government to reassert confidence so that another vote passes. That date would take us to November 1st, and it’s already too late at that point.

The timing is the massive fuckup here, and I can hardly see the meeting in Brussels getting moved ahead to avoid it.

Anyone know the veracity of the claims made in the article? As soon as it comes into EU territory I’m generally reliant on someone like junior g-man telling me what the score is, because even understanding the intricacies of our hosed up system of governance breaks my brain.

Sanitary Naptime posted:

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnsons-secret-brexit-plan-19856454

Interesting nuclear option, and the timing could work out as a nightmare because it’ll gently caress up the opposition nuclear option to prevent no deal. Hear me out.

If Johnson refuses to provide someone on the 18th October, it leaves 13 days until no deal hits.

The nuclear option on the opposition end is to no confidence the government and install a caretaker PM to go to Brussels and get the extension.

Under the FTPA, the no confidence motion gives two weeks to the government to reassert confidence so that another vote passes. That date would take us to November 1st, and it’s already too late at that point.

The timing is the massive fuckup here, and I can hardly see the meeting in Brussels getting moved ahead to avoid it.

Anyone know the veracity of the claims made in the article? As soon as it comes into EU territory I’m generally reliant on someone like junior g-man telling me what the score is, because even understanding the intricacies of our hosed up system of governance breaks my brain.

jabby posted:

The EU is loving amazing at rules-lawyering so Boris trying to play that game seems unlikely to work. I strongly doubt the EU would throw out a member state literally on the day that they refuse to provide a commissioner, with no warning/sanctions/diplomacy whatsoever. Especially if they knew a general election was coming six weeks down the line. They'd find a way to carry on.

joedevola posted:

I mean gently caress Cameron forever of course, but at least he could do politics without vomiting all over himself.

Sanitary Naptime posted:

You forgot Change UK (Milkist-Leninist)

Apraxin posted:

Apraxin posted:

Hey, what's this prominent article on the Beeb front page?



Oh ok, still can't think what this drunken brawl that could have led to Brexit might be tho-

feedmegin posted:

I thought nobody actually spoke nynorsk (as opposed to writing it)

Apraxin posted:

Oh ok, still can't think what this drunken brawl that could have led to Brexit might be tho-

Jealous Cow posted:

Again, dumb American here, but this is some galaxy brain poo poo right?

joedevola posted:

In the last few days I've surprised myself by coming around to a sort of grudging respect for David Cameron. He's every bit as lizard brained and deserving of hatred as any Tory, but now we can see how much work he had to do to keep the mask from slipping.

During the Cameron years he projected a kind of deadening, robotic, corporate competence, which gave the Tories a patina of inevitability. They were raised to rule and they'd be there forever. Especially when you remember how completely hollowed out Labour were under Brown and Miliband. But now we see what an absolute loving clown car the whole organisation has been the entire time.

For me it was the "girly swot" thing and seeing Mogg lounging in parliament like some dissolute, Victorian dope fiend poet. They're children. They're completely stunted and mentally still at boarding school.

I mean gently caress Cameron forever of course, but at least he could do politics without vomiting all over himself.

Ms Adequate posted:

Absolutely galactic supercluster brained. The idea that Corbyn is somehow responsible for or indeed a secret mastermind of Brexit has been a centrist article of faith for years now, and they have no more evidence or logical structure behind it than they did at the beginning.

In point of fact Corbyn is not a Eurosceptic, he simply has a nuanced assessment of the EU as an institution, i.e., deeply flawed and neoliberal, but still better than what came before and something we're better off in and trying to improve than out of.

But even if Corbyn was proven to play a part it also overlooks all the million other factors that led to the vote going for Leave, such as the decade of austerity on the heels of decades of more general neoliberalism, the vast wealth gap in this country, the other politicians who actually did campaign for Brexit (Such as an obscure Tory known as Boris Johnson), the media's complicity both in the campaign and for forty-odd years beforehand, widespread general ignorance of what the EU is, what it does, and how it does it, and the billionty lies about how easy leaving would be and how it'd be great for us and we'd get an amazing deal and we'd be better off than ever.

Jealous Cow posted:

Again, dumb American here, but this is some galaxy brain poo poo right?

Apraxin posted:

It's on the lines of titling the article 'Did (event) Cause the Election of Donald Trump?' and then saying that (event) led to x, then y, and ultimately motivated Bernie Sanders - a lifelong economic populist who some liberals blame for Trump's election - to run for president.

Jealous Cow posted:

Again, dumb American here, but this is some galaxy brain poo poo right?

joedevola posted:

In the last few days I've surprised myself by coming around to a sort of grudging respect for David Cameron. He's every bit as lizard brained and deserving of hatred as any Tory, but now we can see how much work he had to do to keep the mask from slipping.

During the Cameron years he projected a kind of deadening, robotic, corporate competence, which gave the Tories a patina of inevitability. They were raised to rule and they'd be there forever. Especially when you remember how completely hollowed out Labour were under Brown and Miliband. But now we see what an absolute loving clown car the whole organisation has been the entire time.

For me it was the "girly swot" thing and seeing Mogg lounging in parliament like some dissolute, Victorian dope fiend poet. They're children. They're completely stunted and mentally still at boarding school.

I mean gently caress Cameron forever of course, but at least he could do politics without vomiting all over himself.

Jealous Cow posted:

Again, dumb American here, but this is some galaxy brain poo poo right?

Comrade Fakename posted:

Bruce was a colossal prick, but most people (though thankfully, not this thread) would have considered him to be a pretty reasonable Conservative supporter. But then Brexit opened up the unhinged darkness within him. I think that if the referendum had never happened he almost certainly would have remained his original, still-awful self. And I think he’s fairly representative of a lot of the Tory support at this stage.

Comrade Fakename posted:

lol John Mann resigning from Labour isn’t even on the BBC News front page.

Comrade Fakename posted:

lol John Mann resigning from Labour isn’t even on the BBC News front page.

Gonzo McFee posted:

Jeremy Corbyn becoming Labour leader is partially due to a Labour mp bravely headbutting tories. Its more to do with Ed Miliband winning the nomination over his more right wing brother David due to the Union vote. Yer man slapping about some tories just gave cover to a bunch of changes done to strip the Unions of power so they could get a more right wing Labour leader.

This led to them lowering the bar of entry into Labour leadership elections and giving rise to the now infamous £3 to vote rule. The theory being that once the public saw yer Chuka Umanas, Liz Kendals and The knock off Clinton impersonator Yvette Coopers they'd flock to pay £3 to vote for these titans of charisma and stop the unions from electing Andy Burnham, who was a bit like Ed Miliband designed by committee.

Problems with this arose when Umuna quit due to not being able to cope with press attention. Rumours about this decision ranged from threats of him being exposed as gay to him being exposed as a coke fiend. I personally believe he just shat it. This led to there being a gap in the race which Jeremy Corbyn managed to get into at the last minute, mostly getting the required nominations from his fellow MP's from calls to widen debate or to watch the left fall flat on its face as it had done at previous leadership elections with Diane Abbot and John McDonnel before.

The second problem was that there was a lot more attention on this race than previous. The promise of more democracy and a right wing Labour leader drew press attention as they gathered to crown ether Yvette Cooper or Liz Kendall the future of the party and brand Andy Burnham an insane Marxist and Jeremy Corbyn as some kind of novelty joke relic. This led to coverage of Corbyn that seems bizarre today as he's talked about as a decent guy but fundamentaly could never win. The debates were three near identical clones all echoing the line that Labour went too far to the left under Ed Miliband and had to accept this and Jeremy Corbyn saying the opposite. And then the leadership Polls came out. The public saw Corbyn and loved him. With Corbyn firmly in the lead suddenly he was the IRA HEZBOLA VENEZUELA NUKE BANNER to the press, the other candidates all scrambled to bargain with a membership that had gone hard left overnight and the labour right was saying £3 for a vote was a terrible system that was ripe for abuse even though it was originally theirs to abuse.

The third problem with it was that the Labour right were now so detached from their own party that they forgot their own history. Traditionally the Unions had been the right of the party, representing the reactionary and self protecting working class rather than the academic Marxists who made up the left. Once the left was purged in the late 70s to early 00's the unions became the left through being the last ones standing who weren't managerial neo liberals. By opening the voting process up to all the people they had alienated through the years to chase sun readers and waitrose shoppers they essentially guaranteed a sudden influx of left wing voters. Essentially they bought into their own bollocks and paid dearly.

The EU thing is just bollocks, a means of pushing the blame onto Corbyn for not standing side to side with David Cameron and making their jobs easier to film both of them. The EU referendum was pitched as a tory leadership story and Corbyn was mostly ignored. Its like blaming someone you refused to pass to for losing the game.

ronya posted:

in retrospect JC's long-term gamble to advocate for A50 immediately, but then machine the party into studious ambiguity, does not seem to have paid off beyond 2017 - the Tory wets have entirely failed to put up a decent battle to the dries over the past two years, and May clung on just a bit too long, and the fear of a Brexit culture war metamorphosizing into a party line battle came true anyway. Call it the This Tory Brexit Let's Talk About Education Instead strategy, perhaps... it hasn't even worked to contain the party right, who have all suddenly fallen in love with Europe and have indeed forecasted the party's steady slippage from ambiguity with a 6l month time lead

the saga isn't over yet of course

there might be a surprise twist at the end

Looke posted:

lol if real

OwlFancier posted:

Spider brain, spider brain, PPE gives you spider brain.
Rots your lobes, eats your nerves, makes you type real stupid words.
Oh no, here comes the spider brain.

Jose posted:

Wasn't basically everyone calling for immediate enactment of article 50 not just Corbyn?