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Madkal posted:All the Punisher talk has made me wonder: has Punisher ever killed an innocent/not guilty person before? Like not "not guilty by technicality" but not guilty because the person was framed and oh never mind, Frank killed them anyway, not guilty. I'm not sure if it counts exactly, but in Civil War, after saving Spider-Man and meeting up with the resistance, he gunned down Plunderer and Goldbug who had joined with Cap's side because they were terrified of what Iron Man's side was doing. But like I said, not sure if it counts because his justification for it was that they'd broken the law/done bad things before.
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Sep 2, 2019 14:10
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Archyduchess posted:That's an interesting question because I think a lot of the really enduring "retcons" are so thoroughly absorbed now that they look almost invisible. Batman stories quietly doing away with his gun-happy habits in the very earliest stories, for example, or the implicit notion that Uncle Ben said "with great power comes great responsibility" instead of an anonymous narrative caption. "The Flash of Two Worlds" might not technically qualify for everyone's definition of a retcon but I think I'd count it as one, and a tremendously important one at that, for dramatically rewriting the grammar of how superhero stories could intersect with one another and for firmly establishing DC's sense of its books as having a shared and dynamic history of sorts. One that always stands out for me is that Magneto’s helmet blocks psychic powers. It shows up in the X-Men movie, and made it into comics in Grant Morrison’s run on X-Men. But before this it wasn’t a thing. Magneto was usually immune to psychic powers via things like willpower or having changed the earth’s magnetic field to interfere with the astral plane. But never because of how his helmet was made of a special metal.
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Sep 3, 2019 01:01
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:There was a time when the Punisher had had his brain hosed with by some evil scientists for... some drat reason, I forget, and was killing anyone who even vaguely approached breaking the law. Litterers, for instance. Or jaywalkers.
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Sep 3, 2019 01:12
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The Question IRL posted:One that always stands out for me is that Magneto’s helmet blocks psychic powers. Magneto also had mental powers himself early on. He could control minds and enter the astral plane.
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Sep 3, 2019 01:26
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TheManWithNoName posted:Magneto also had mental powers himself early on. He could control minds and enter the astral plane. Don't forget his magnetic personality.
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Sep 3, 2019 01:36
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clearly covered by his core powerset
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Sep 3, 2019 01:37
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Is there anyone putting out House/Powers of X annotations? I've only read Age of Apocalypse, Morrison's run, Whedon's run, and a random handful of Claremont stuff. And whatever I absorbed listening to X-Plain the X-Men. I'm sure I'm missing a lot of details reading Hickman's run.
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Sep 3, 2019 02:18
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There’s really not anything you need to know. Like, Nimrod, and the Phalanx were things in the past. The Sol’s Hammer that got turned into the Mother Mold was from Hickman’s New Avengers, meant to destroy an alternate Earth if it showed up during an incursion. Instead it destroyed an entire Shi’ar fleet using a fraction of 1% of its power. Is there anything you feel like you’d like explained better?
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Sep 3, 2019 02:43
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No, not to follow the story. Like I said, just feel like I'm missing nuance. Phalanx is probably the biggest thing that I have little exposure to (and was the subject of this week's X-Plain the X-Men, coincidentally). I also don't know that much about Moira.
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Sep 3, 2019 02:49
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Uthor posted:No, not to follow the story. Like I said, just feel like I'm missing nuance. Phalanx is probably the biggest thing that I have little exposure to (and was the subject of this week's X-Plain the X-Men, coincidentally). I also don't know that much about Moira. Just read Claremont's run (he says casually about 15 years worth of comics)
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Sep 3, 2019 03:24
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other than the waid/samnee run, are there any good widow stories?
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Sep 3, 2019 05:36
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Edmonson/Noto was solid. Mostly for the art, but it also introduced Widow’s cat, who later became a Pet Avenger.
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Sep 3, 2019 05:52
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Open Marriage Night posted:Edmonson/Noto was solid. Mostly for the art, but it also introduced Widow’s cat, who later became a Pet Avenger. Seconding the art. I don't know how Phil Noto keeps getting better and better, but he does, and Black Widow was a great fit for his style.
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Sep 3, 2019 06:09
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site posted:other than the waid/samnee run, are there any good widow stories? The run that just ended, the Soska (?) sisters, was enjoyable.
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Sep 3, 2019 06:29
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The Rucka minis were good.
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Sep 3, 2019 09:54
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So, I just heard that since Doomsday Clock got so delayed that now it might be declared non-canon. Never mind that it is tied to what supposedly created the New 52. Any veracity to this claim or just general gossip nonsense?
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Sep 7, 2019 03:32
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Cornwind Evil posted:So, I just heard that since Doomsday Clock got so delayed that now it might be declared non-canon. Never mind that it is tied to what supposedly created the New 52. Any veracity to this claim or just general gossip nonsense? I feel like DC has changed so much, and often, in the last decade that you could change stuff without having a big mega event and people would just accept it. New 52 was such a mess and has already been so altered that it's hard for me at least to remember what has changed beyond the broad strokes. I wouldn't be surprised if a large number of readers weren't even aware the JSA wasn't a thing anymore until recently.
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Sep 7, 2019 05:41
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There is no more DC canon
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Sep 7, 2019 06:12
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There's only one character who's a Batman in the whole loving comic and he's not even in every issue, how could you expect today's DC fan or editor to give the book a second look?
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Sep 7, 2019 06:29
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It's pretty funny how much time they spent setting up Batman's inclusion in the story without actually giving him anything to do or even a reason to be involved.Cornwind Evil posted:So, I just heard that since Doomsday Clock got so delayed that now it might be declared non-canon. Never mind that it is tied to what supposedly created the New 52. Any veracity to this claim or just general gossip nonsense? It's speculation based on the fact they've started reintroducing the Legion and the JSA without directly tying into DDC, and that the current state of the DC universe looks very different from the one in DDC.
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Sep 7, 2019 09:21
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Was Children’s Crusade the first time Billy and Teddy kissed on panel? Was it the first time Marvel showed two men kissing?
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Sep 7, 2019 15:08
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It's probably just that doomsday clock is going to come after their next annual half reboot.
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Sep 7, 2019 17:44
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radlum posted:Was Children’s Crusade the first time Billy and Teddy kissed on panel? Was it the first time Marvel showed two men kissing? I think it was the first time they kissed, but the Milligan/Allred X-Force that eventually became X-Statix had a gay kiss back in 2001.
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Sep 7, 2019 17:55
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What's usually the cause of these types of delay and for this length? I would have though they'd have stuff ready to go long before it actually hit the shelves.
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Sep 8, 2019 12:36
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bessantj posted:What's usually the cause of these types of delay and for this length? I would have though they'd have stuff ready to go long before it actually hit the shelves. Doomsday Clock? Gary Frank is not the quickest artist and Geoff Johns has a long history of changing his mind on the direction of a story in the middle of the goddamned story.
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Sep 8, 2019 13:05
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Rhyno posted:Doomsday Clock? Gary Frank is not the quickest artist and Geoff Johns has a long history of changing his mind on the direction of a story in the middle of the goddamned story. Well I mean in general when comics are delayed. I don't know how the industry works so in my mind I though they'd have the comic ready to be released long before the actual release date came along. Though thanks for the explanation of the probable causes in this event  .
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Sep 8, 2019 13:07
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Comic delays happen for all manner of reason, creator issues, scheduling changes, editorial mandates etc. Or your hard drive crashes and you stupidly didn't have any backups and people still joke about it 15 years later.
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Sep 8, 2019 13:17
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Rhyno posted:Comic delays happen for all manner of reason, creator issues, scheduling changes, editorial mandates etc. Ouch, that was painful just to read. Actually speaking of editorial mandates the Clone Saga is said to have been hurt by them, is there any other story that has been badly hurt by editorial mandates? bessantj fucked around with this message at 13:46 on Sep 8, 2019 |
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Sep 8, 2019 13:42
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Warren Ellis is not good with technology.
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Sep 8, 2019 13:44
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bessantj posted:Actually speaking of editorial mandates the Clone Saga is said to have been hurt by them, is there any other story that has been badly hurt by editorial mandates? I don't think there's any story that hasn't
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Sep 8, 2019 13:59
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DivineCoffeeBinge posted:I don't think there's any story that hasn't It's that pervasive? I suppose if it's that way in movies, music etc why not comics.
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Sep 8, 2019 14:04
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bessantj posted:It's that pervasive? I suppose if it's that way in movies, music etc why not comics. An awesome batwoman run was cut short since dc said batwoman and her girlfriend could get engaged but not married. DC had a no marriage rule
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Sep 8, 2019 14:30
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bobkatt013 posted:An awesome batwoman run was cut short since dc said batwoman and her girlfriend could get engaged but not married. DC had a no marriage rule No gay marriage or no marriage in general?
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Sep 8, 2019 14:38
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bessantj posted:It's that pervasive? I suppose if it's that way in movies, music etc why not comics. An editor's entire job is to gently caress with the story an author brings them. Ideally, they gently caress with it in a way that makes it better - look at what happens to most creators who succeed beyond everyone's wildest dreams and any perceived lack of quality is explained as "well, they're too big for an editor" - but still, that's the job. In comics, though, they also tend to do a bunch of other jobs like "make sure this script doesn't contradict one of the other 37 scripts for the month, some of which you have not seen" or "make sure the art gets in on time and the artist didn't forget to do their job because they were too busy playing videogames" or "hold meetings with the Sales and PR people where they tell you they want character X to be more popular, then go back to the writer and tell them to put Character X in the book because marketing wants it to happen". Basically it takes a really, really good editor to juggle all that poo poo and still make books better, and honestly I don't think there are many of those left in the industry.
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Sep 8, 2019 14:45
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I knew editors tidied a book up but didn't realise that they did all that other stuff as well.
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Sep 8, 2019 14:49
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bessantj posted:Ouch, that was painful just to read. I believe back in '91, Armageddon 2001 got its villain changed from Captain Atom to Hawk because readers on the internet figured it out from the clues that were published.
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Sep 8, 2019 14:58
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bessantj posted:No gay marriage or no marriage in general? The latter. Aquaman and Mera were (and still aren't) not married but somehow she's still the queen
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Sep 8, 2019 15:53
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maltesh posted:I believe back in '91, Armageddon 2001 got its villain changed from Captain Atom to Hawk because readers on the internet figured it out from the clues that were published. No, it was spoiled in the solicitations. Like, blatantly.
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Sep 8, 2019 16:01
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TwoPair posted:The latter. Aquaman and Mera were (and still aren't) not married but somehow she's still the queen Ah, wonder why. Are those two still cousins?
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Sep 8, 2019 16:08
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bessantj posted:Ouch, that was painful just to read. Well JMS just had an AMA where he stated that the resurrection of Morlun for The Other was an editorial mandate (well, 'suggestion'). Granted that story would probably still not be received well, but that probably hurt it pretty badly. And set the precedent that led to Spider-Verse and Spider-Geddon as Morlun as being all about killing Spider-Men, when the initial story established he only went after Peter because he wanted/needed to eat a spider-person at that time.
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Sep 8, 2019 16:19
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