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The episode where Jake talks Bashir into taking him to a war zone was great. Could have been a pilot for a TV show about Jake Sisko, the cowardly war correspondent. Super shocking the episode doesn't end with Ben beating the poo poo out of Bashir.
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Sep 8, 2019 17:37
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skasion posted:Sir, this is a replimat Oh my mistake One mint julep, please
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Sep 8, 2019 17:43
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Tighclops posted:Watching Americans talk reverently about the founding fathers of their country is always kind of creepy, but it's the same here in Canada. Like any random Canadian can name a single person beyond John MacDonald from that time. We like to obliviously praise ourselves, though, that much is true.
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Sep 8, 2019 19:00
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HorseLord posted:Every football match starts with your brave airforce flying over as you put your hand on your heart. Literally no part of this sentence is true
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Sep 8, 2019 19:06
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It's really funny when you see people who think Internet Republicans = all Americans or even a significant majority.
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Sep 8, 2019 19:09
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I'm sure it's nowhere near as bad as internet republicans, but you do make your kids swear allegiance to the flag every day which is really creepy.
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Sep 8, 2019 19:50
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I agree the pledge should be gotten rid of, but no one makes kids do it. I refused and it's a non-issue. I'm sure you can dig up an article about a teacher forcing it but that's a crazy teacher, not policy.
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Sep 8, 2019 20:01
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The Bloop posted:Oh my mistake And not that sinthi-whatever crap. Grand Fromage posted:I agree the pledge should be gotten rid of, but no one makes kids do it. I refused and it's a non-issue. I'm sure you can dig up an article about a teacher forcing it but that's a crazy teacher, not policy. It did used to be, though, and not really all that long ago. Lol imagine refusing it during the Mccarthy era.
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Sep 8, 2019 21:05
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I was once sent to the principal for not standing during the pledge, but this was Texas in the late 90s so YMMV.
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Sep 8, 2019 21:14
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Hipster_Doofus posted:It did used to be, though, and not really all that long ago. Lol imagine refusing it during the Mccarthy era. 1943. West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette was the Supreme Court ruling that said that public schools couldn't make students say the pledge.
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Sep 8, 2019 21:18
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Epicurius posted:1943. West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette was the Supreme Court ruling that said that public schools couldn't make students say the pledge. I wonder how many third graders have used that legal precedent to successfully argue their case when they get sent to the principal's office for being "disrespectful" during the pledge.
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Sep 8, 2019 21:21
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Blade_of_tyshalle posted:Like any random Canadian can name a single person beyond John MacDonald from that time. We like to obliviously praise ourselves, though, that much is true. There's uh also Georges-Étienne Cartier, which I guess something like a quarter of the population could name. Beyond that I recognise I think only like three names on this list so very fair.
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Sep 8, 2019 21:23
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How dare any Canadian not forever remember the lover of the universe, Amor de Cosmos.
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Sep 8, 2019 21:39
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Jimmy Cockburn's a good name.
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Sep 8, 2019 21:41
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As a kid I did not have the mental development necessary to understand that the pledge was hosed up e: hell by the time I understood what the words meant I was no longer in a school that did the pledge cheetah7071 fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Sep 8, 2019 |
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Sep 8, 2019 21:43
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HorseLord posted:England has never ever been a white monoculture. There was always "moors", going back to Roman times. Apartheid segregationist style of racism was never a thing here, beyond the efforts of certain extremists, which is why your men stationed here in WWII were so shocked and appalled to see us freely fraternize with black soldiers. While the 20th century saw the emergence of overtly fascist movements here, they've always been crushed, not by the state but by the people. The majority of the civil rights work that happened here was much more about trying to get grandma to remember that "coloured" isn't polite anymore, getting harmful stereotypes off the TV, rather than dismantling segregationism. Wow, it's like you're inside my head! How do you know me so well?!  MURICA!Did England have "moors"? Sure. I'm not saying there were never a few non Anglos in the UK 300 years ago. But nowhere near what Moffat portrays. I'll admit I don't know the nuances of middle ages and after European/English culture, but I've never head that racism didn't really exist there until the "fascism of the 20th century". It sounds like you're saying that Europe of the 1800s and before was a bastion of tolerance and enlightenment and only America can be racist cause of our Objectively Evil Founding Fathers that we worship as a cult because of our Constitutional KKK Programming. Also that England and Europe never had nationalism or patriotism which is pretty loving hilarious. So you don't have national anthems that are played at sports matches or the Olympics? You're equating our constitution to a religion--have you seen the over the top plans for when the Queen dies? The UK will literally stop for days. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CC5hzJNWIrY I was raised as an American to love my country, but that doesn't mean I don't want to examine the flaws. What I say about demonizing vs discussing is that there were good things and ideas that our founders had. They did some things that were bad too. There are some people who think that because they did anything bad, they need to be totally disregarded. I mean you yourself are saying we should basically start a new republic and write a new constitution. Just start over and pretend we're some new country and history started in 2000 or 1965 or maybe in 2020 if Trump loses! Why we could even rename the months of the calendar like the French did! A lot of this comes from people being offended too that history had any sort of unfairness or hatred and they want to erase it from our knowledge because they believe it teaches people HOW to hate and that if they think hate never existed they won't...hate or something? That's what Mosley is getting at. There is a school in California where they painted over a mural from the 1930s-destroyed a historical piece of artwork that can never be replaced. Why? Because it showed George Washington oppressing Indians and owning slaves. But not because they were some white supremacists trying to whitewash our past. No, it was because they felt that non white children would feel sad and offended being reminded of slavery and the history of that. In a school. Which teaches history. And to top it all off, the guy who painted it was a Russian immigrant artist and member of the Communist Party who got a grant under the WPA and put that image in there to make people see that America and George Washington had some historical flaws that should be examined.  Sorry, I don't agree with that. I think we can fix our problems without destroying our country and starting completely over.
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Sep 8, 2019 21:45
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America bad....but Star Trek...good???
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Sep 8, 2019 21:45
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Astroman posted:Sorry, I don't agree with that. I think we can fix our problems without destroying our country and starting completely over. Star Trek would disagree Snow Cone Capone posted:America bad....but Star Trek...good??? Let's all agree on this.
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Sep 8, 2019 21:50
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Epicurius posted:1943. West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette was the Supreme Court ruling that said that public schools couldn't make students say the pledge. This very seriously surprises me. Pleasantly, though, for what that's worth. I have to think that right was hardly ever exercised until the 60s, and when it was it probably got quite an expression out of the teacher, and got you picked on pretty badly. Althougggghhhh........ I'm basing this on the tone of media from those days. Leave it to Beaver, Bell System Science films, films for highschoolers about "dating" and other shorts like you'd see at the beginning of mst3k, what have you... and I know that the world never really was as it's portrayed in such things. So hmm.
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Sep 8, 2019 21:51
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Just because the courts said it, doesn't mean that the schools implemented it, or that society as a whole agreed with it. Often the freedom to not say the Pledge was won case by case, pointing to the SCOTUS decision and saying "How far up do you want to pay to take this before you lose, buddy?" Local and state politicians made plenty of political hay out of things like this. Same with Brown v. Board, it didn't stop segregation, just handed the Feds (and the people) a tool that they could use. Lots and lots of work still needed to be done. Still does, actually. Lemniscate Blue fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Sep 8, 2019 |
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Sep 8, 2019 22:01
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Just because the courts said it, doesn't mean that the schools implemented it, or that society as a whole agreed with it. Often the freedom to not say the Pledge was won case by case, pointing to the SCOTUS decision and saying "How far up do you want to pay to take this?" Pretty much this. It took decades for states to stop finding creative ways to avoid complying with Brown v. Board. Virginia, for example, shut down public schools so that there wouldn't have to be schools to integrate.
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Sep 8, 2019 22:03
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Star Trek...good??? Hey now, let's not paint with TOO broad a brush here. Perhaps one-third of Star Trek is good.
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Sep 8, 2019 22:24
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HorseLord posted:The KKK, american nazi party etc are the truest american patriots in the sense that their values are the foundational ones of the country. Just going to quote this again in order to point out that the only ones who believe this are (the remnants of) those same groups, and saying it with any degree of sincerity unduly legitimizes them.
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Sep 8, 2019 22:29
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Son of Sam-I-Am posted:Just going to quote this again in order to point out that the only ones who believe this are (the remnants of) those same groups, and saying it with any degree of sincerity unduly legitimizes them. Or people who believe that the founding principles of the US were at best deeply flawed and at worst deliberately designed to maintain race and class structures, and that the simplistic hagiography we are taught in grade school that idolizes the Founders and their principles straight up lies about the whole thing.
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Sep 8, 2019 22:34
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I think you want the Dr. Who thread a couple threads down, I'm not sure how any of that is relevant to this thread. There was that clip where Sisko got grumpy about romanticizing 60s (segregated) Las Vegas with Vic Fontaine, but otherwise I got nothing. At most points in history, just about everything rested on the suffering and oppression of those less fortunate, with which most people were somehow in history, and there's no getting around it.
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Sep 8, 2019 22:51
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When it comes to casting in a historical setting, it seems there are two routes you could take. One is to try and focus on genuine historical accuracy (which will probably not have a lot of prominent PoCs but will have more than you might think) and another is to try and make it resemble the viewers at home because this is an entertainment program and not a Serious Historical Examination. Doctor Who would seem to be the latter, some kind of more serious historical drama would be the former.
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Sep 8, 2019 23:02
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Tighclops posted:I went into this article expecting one thing and got something else His not understanding freedom of speech is immaterial, though, because the complaint is fuckin' bullshit. Context matters. He wasn't using it casually. He was talking about his experience being a black man. The Bloop posted:Oh my mistake Also delicious. We need to find a way to get the stink off it.
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Sep 8, 2019 23:25
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LividLiquid posted:
Nothing short of using it as a revolutionary symbol will work, I'm afraid
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Sep 8, 2019 23:33
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Powered Descent posted:Hey now, let's not paint with TOO broad a brush here. Perhaps one-third of Star Trek is good. All Star Trek is good. Even the bad Trek? Especially the bad Trek.
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Sep 8, 2019 23:39
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Grand Fromage posted:All Star Trek is good. You should have had faith in us to provide the appropriate response
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Sep 8, 2019 23:43
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Grand Fromage posted:All Star Trek is good.
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Sep 8, 2019 23:53
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Lemniscate Blue posted:Or people who believe that the founding principles of the US were at best deeply flawed and at worst deliberately designed to maintain race and class structures, and that the simplistic hagiography we are taught in grade school that idolizes the Founders and their principles straight up lies about the whole thing. Ah, still, close enough though.
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Sep 8, 2019 23:53
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The Bloop posted:You should have had faith in us to provide the appropriate response Ah my dear doctor. Faith is a luxury one can ill afford.
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Sep 8, 2019 23:57
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The Bloop posted:Nothing short of using it as a revolutionary symbol will work, I'm afraid Freedom juleps?
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Sep 9, 2019 00:36
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Historical racism, particularly in, say, the Tudor era, is vastly overstated to make "us" feel better about the state of play of things today. The traditional understanding of different skin colours was pretty much just "you live somewhere sunny you have dark skin", and working class racism was essentially non-existent. It's a ruling class thing. Yeah racism as we know it today is about 400 years old, coinciding with needing a rationale to enslave Africans for colonial ventures. Name Change fucked around with this message at 00:42 on Sep 9, 2019 |
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Sep 9, 2019 00:39
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I was once sent to the principal for not standing during the pledge, but this was Texas in the late 90s so YMMV. i was in high school from 2010-2014 in Connecticut and me+multiple other students were suspended multiple times for refusing to pledge allegiance
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Sep 9, 2019 01:02
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yeah if you went to an american public school any time after 9/11 and you refused to pledge allegiance you were going to be called a muslamic terrorist who hates america i will wholeheartedly admit i hate america lmao
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Sep 9, 2019 01:04
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I don't remember the pledge even being a thing in high school, but if it was then I somehow managed to go two years of post 9/11 without being called a muslamic terrorist.
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Sep 9, 2019 01:10
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Five years now I've been teaching 11th-12th graders at a school that never had a PA system installed, so school-wide announcements were done by a PowerPoint slide show at the start f 2nd period and teachers were expected to lead the class in the Pledge of Allegiance, the Texas Flag Pledge, and a moment of silence. Not once in five years did I do anything but set the announcements running and ignore them while I took roll. I talked to other teachers in my department, asked if they did the Pledge, always got the same answer: "Well, we're supposed to by state law." "Yeah, but do you?" "Hah, no." This year, as part of a campus security update, we had a PA system installed so that they can communicate lockdown drills etc more clearly. And Admin promised, swore, that's all it would be used for. Not calling students to the office, not announcements, not the Pledges, just drills and safety poo poo. Not a week into the school year they made both the Pledges and a moment of silence a regular thing over the PA. They're getting representatives from student clubs and teams to lead it. I'm wondering if it'll be this year or next that they start doing announcements that way, and calling students to the office. Because why the gently caress not? The Pledge of Allegiance in schools is stupid, and wastes everyone's time, and no student really understands or means what they're saying. It's a dumb sop to pearl-clutching appearance-is-everything assholes with no deeper surface-level understanding of anything and it needs to go away forever. I'll have a raktajino, double strong, double sweet.
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Sep 9, 2019 01:28
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Lemniscate Blue posted:the Texas Flag Pledge what
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Sep 9, 2019 02:10
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