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yeah, the scale length and tuning determine the tension required for a given string gauge, so a set of 9s will sound different on a short scale vs a long scale if you change the gauge, that has its own effect on tone
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Sep 3, 2019 11:32
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I think people are overall more skeptical of the idea that you should avoid 24.75" scale guitars over 25.5" scale if you plan on playing open chords as a beginner. The hums are going to be a much bigger factor than the scale length, especially at that price point. The kid should see what guitar they're interested in and what makes them want to play. That should be the #1 factor, if seeing an sg drives this kid batshit crazy about wanting to play guitar, try to find a cheap sg.
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Sep 3, 2019 12:29
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Helianthus Annuus posted:i’m surprised that other posters are skeptical that scale length has a noticeable effect on tone. although i do acknowledge that it’s one factor among many it is, but primarily at the longer end of things. a 28 or 30" scale guitar will be noticeably more twangy than a 25.5" neck quote:the point is that it’s not really feasible to change your scale length while keeping the other parameters of your guitar the same. sure it is
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Sep 3, 2019 13:09
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when i was just starting out, i didn’t know that gibsons and fenders had different scale lengths, and i certainly couldn’t have imagined that it might produce differences in tone. i think it’s a useful thing to be aware of when buying your first electric guitar. that’s why i’m sharing this. is it possible to get a bright enough tone out of a les paul to play open chords, scale length notwithstanding? sure, it can be done, but it might take some know-how to get there. what i’m trying to get across is that a beginner will have a much easier time getting that bright tone out of a full scale length guitar without having to gently caress around. that’s why i’m cautioning against accidentally getting a short scale guitar if you are shopping for a beginner’s first electric guitar sight-unseen.
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Sep 3, 2019 18:34
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Helianthus Annuus posted:
bass 0 mid 6 treble 10 (presence 2:00)
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Sep 3, 2019 18:40
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Just play everything through a metal zone
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Sep 3, 2019 20:39
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Scale length does influence things as the string depends on tension (how tight or loose you make it from the tuning machine), sounding length, and mass (string gauge more or less). If you have a 25.5" scale guitar and want to see how it might sound as a shorter scale, you can actually approximate this. Detune one half step (so from E standard to Eb standard) and then capo the first fret. This will effectively give you a scale length of ~24.1". I don’t think that scale length is differences between the standard Fender or Gibson lengths for beginner guitarists though. I'd recommend something that is comfortable to hold and have a good setup so that the guitar is easier to play. From there, just find something that inspires playing.
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Sep 3, 2019 20:51
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Any guitar that a kid is excited about is the correct guitar, but all thing being equal, I think the reduced string tension from a shorter scale length would be easier on a beginner. I've been trying to design the perfect beginner guitar in my head. I've settled on a T-style body with Strat countours. A Strat pickup in the neck and a humbucker in the bridge. 24.75" scale. 10-16 compound radius on an ultra thin neck. Recessed input jack. One volume, one tone, 3-way switch where a Les Paul's is. Ibanez-style neck joint and a 4+2 peghead. 
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Sep 3, 2019 22:12
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Lester Shy posted:Any guitar that a kid is excited about is the correct guitar, but all thing being equal, I think the reduced string tension from a shorter scale length would be easier on a beginner. You had me until "4+2".
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Sep 3, 2019 22:32
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I don’t mind it on my Music Man one bit when I don’t have to have flashbacks about string trees and Squier vibratos.
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Sep 4, 2019 04:19
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Lester Shy posted:a 4+2 peghead. 
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Sep 4, 2019 14:07
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Lester Shy posted:a 4+2 peghead. 😬
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Sep 4, 2019 14:41
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gently caress it, let's do 5+1, get real weird with it.
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Sep 4, 2019 17:45
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Baron von Eevl posted:gently caress it, let's do 5+1, get real weird with it. 3+2+1. Three on the bass side, two on the treble side, one on the top.
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Sep 4, 2019 17:49
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2+1+1+2, EB on the outside, G on the inside of the treble side, D on the inside of the bass side, AE on the outside.
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Sep 4, 2019 17:53
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4+2 is good! And very low-maintenance for beginners; straight string pull for solid tuning stability and no string trees to plink every time you tune up. The Music Man headstock starts to grow on you if you stare at it long enough.
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Sep 4, 2019 18:12
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why don’t more guitars have the tuning pegs in the body?
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Sep 4, 2019 18:13
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doesn't look as cool when you tune up in the middle of a song
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Sep 4, 2019 18:44
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Helianthus Annuus posted:why don’t more guitars have the tuning pegs in the body? Well technically every headless guitar has the pegs on the body...
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Sep 4, 2019 21:51
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Comparing my Epi SG with my G&L Fallout, there's definitely the contrast between easy tension/middy tone (sg) and tauter tension/twangy tone (fallout) and that's unamplified. It also helps that the sg is rosewood neck and the fallout is maple neck (both mahogany body). When I started playing guitar again, I started on the SG but the Fallout really isn't that much of a stretch, if you enjoy the noise, you'll manage. Short scales are fun machines, even the basses are great.
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Sep 5, 2019 01:44
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2 + 2 banjo + 2
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Sep 5, 2019 05:19
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I bounce back and forth between 25.5" and 24.75" scale lengths all the time (my #1 is a tele and my #2 a LP). On my 25.5" guitars I use .10-.46 strings (D'addario NYXL Regular Light Balanced Tension) and on my Gibsons/Epis/Fireflies I use .11-.50 (NYXL Medium Balanced Tension). The feel on bends is similar enough that I don't notice a difference. If they sound different, I've always chalked it up to single coil vs humbuckers more than scale length/string gauge. Not saying that scale length doesn't make any difference to the sound, I'm sure it does. But it should be pretty far down the list of considerations when buying a guitar for a new player, IMO. Heck, Fender's "Student" guitars have traditionally been 24" and they're great guitars for kids or people with smaller hands, even with fairly light (.09+) strings. Now I kind of want to 1:1 compare a 24.75" Jaguar or Mustang or Cyclone against a 24" Jag/Mustang/Cyclone to see how dissimilar they sound and how much messing with string gauge can get them closer in feel and sound.
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Sep 5, 2019 16:15
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Speaking of string tension, on my classical guitar i use daddario EJ-45 normal tension, but the intonation has always been bad higher up the frets. Now after not changing the strings for like a year the intonation is perfect (but the tone is not great obviously). Does this mean I should restring with a lower tension set? e: I should mention that like most classical guitars it doesn't have a truss rod WorldIndustries fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Sep 6, 2019 |
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Sep 5, 2019 19:39
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I don't know if this is better in the effects thread but- does anybody here using a Helix like its fuzz effects? I can't remember trying them when I demoed Helix Native.
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Sep 6, 2019 16:52
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In case you missed it, Tommy Emmanuel was featured on "The Captain Meets..." a few days back. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lP8PFZDznBE
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Sep 6, 2019 20:53
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Death Panel Czar posted:I don't know if this is better in the effects thread but- does anybody here using a Helix like its fuzz effects? I can't remember trying them when I demoed Helix Native. I do but I'm not that big on fuzz. They cant get super chaotic and dynamic because a lot of the way a fuzz responds is due to the way it reacts to your guitars impedance and a digital fuzz has trouble with that.
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Sep 7, 2019 23:08
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Death Panel Czar posted:I don't know if this is better in the effects thread but- does anybody here using a Helix like its fuzz effects? I can't remember trying them when I demoed Helix Native. I do like them and they have a good amount of different fuzzes that all sound pretty different. I'm sure you could find some videos of people A/B'ing the models against their original units. I love my Helix and generally it does an amazing job of getting really close to the original units it tries to model, in some times being impossible to distinguish. You could also Google what the different fuzz effects are on the Helix and find videos of people playing the original fuzz units to get an idea of what you'll have at your disposal. If you want to be sneaky you can probably just register a second email and get some more Native demo time. As of update 2.8, the Native plugin and hardware units are all running on a unified platform, so anything you make on Native should transfer 1:1 to a physical unit and sound identical.
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Sep 8, 2019 05:24
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Gibson gets poo poo on pretty heavily for many good reasons, but I was playing my LP for the first time in weeks today and I really don't think I could ever see myself getting rid of it. It's been in the case for a while because my ear only wants to hear single coils when I'm playing a lot of 7th chords, and that's all I've been about lately. I randomly get the urge to sell it so I can grab a nice strat because it seems to go for more than I paid for it on the used market. But what makes the LP stand above anything else I've played so far is the neck. When I pick this thing up, it just has the "home" feeling for me. It's stupid aesthetic poo poo, but the little binding nibs over the frets and the way they've rounded the edges - those little details I never noticed when I was completely new - they're really nice and appreciated now. I just wish I could have this exact neck and body, but with a single coil. Just figured I'd share something nice about the drat brand even though they've been aggressively self-sabotaging at every turn lately.
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Sep 8, 2019 21:43
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former glory posted:I just wish I could have this exact neck and body, but with a single coil. Have you looked into splittable pickups? They get a lot of flack but I'm personally quite happy with how my Charvel's Duncan Distortions sound in split mode: Nice sproingy chords and even a surprisingly credible surf sound.
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Sep 8, 2019 21:54
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Never tried one but that seems like a pretty reasonable mod. Put a tap pot on for the bridge and switch at will. Could be a nice project.
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Sep 8, 2019 22:20
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I'm the broken record on this one and I'll own that, but please allow me to reiterate something about splitting humbuckers: In my experience, one coil of any humbucker I've tried (think vintage gain to high gain) when played by itself just doesn't have enough oomph to substitute for a single coil Strat-like tone. There's just no bottom end at all, no body to speak of. Just treble. I'm not saying this is going to be true of all humbuckers and on the bridge pickup maybe the coil fartherest from the bridge should sound more full. Tapping one coil is really easy to do but it has always left me wanting due to this very thin and brittle character. I have another solution. My favorite pickups tend to be in the sort of "Les Paul" kind of gain range already: Pearly Gates, Custom Custom, JB (JB being the hottest). Each of those pickups sounds amazingly awesome in parallel. That's still fully hum-bucking, but 1/4 the gain of the two wired in series. There's bottom-end and body and all the treble/presence of a vintage gain pickup. Maybe not quite a single-coil-ish as you'd want when full-on. But... combine that series/parallel switch with a good treble-bleed cap on the volume pot (so that it remains bright as you roll your guitar volume knob down) and you're solidly in that territory. My home-built Strat, my old RG770, they have a Pearly Gates and a JB respectively in the bridge positions and if I could only be bothered to use one guitar I'd be perfectly happy taking one of those even if the menu called for hard rock/metal to texas blues or other hard music that relies mainly on single coils. Or in words inspired by the OP, from power chords to 7ths and back with a quick switch (I use a push-pull pot as the switch) and then roll the volume on the guitar to the desired gain level. I can explain the whole series/parallel thing and all that other stuff about switches and caps if needed, but I didn't want to go on any longer unless asked. Just food for thought. Coil-tapping has never sounded good enough to substitute for a single-coil toanz for me, but to be fair I only own a couple really hot humbuckers, and even the hottest (ToneZone) sounds great in parallel.
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Sep 8, 2019 23:03
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Dr. Faustus posted:Just food for thought. Coil-tapping has never sounded good enough to substitute for a single-coil toanz for me, but to be fair I only own a couple really hot humbuckers, and even the hottest (ToneZone) sounds great in parallel. This is my experience too and I really wish I would’ve realized it before I did.
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Sep 8, 2019 23:06
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I'm intrigued and want to subscribe to your pamphlet, but I'm a little out of my depth when it comes to putting pickups in parallel/series and the effect. I think my move is going to be to try a tap coil guitar next time I'm in a shop and see if I disagree with the tone as well.
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Sep 8, 2019 23:46
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Fair enough but two things you should know: 1) Series is how your humbuckers are now. In parallel, the total resistance of the pickup (higher resistance = higher output = more gain) is 1/4 of the output. That's the difference: Full output vs. 1/4 output. 1/4 output approximates a hot single coil much more closely (imo) than a coil tap will. 2) If you buy a DPDT push-pull pot to tap the coil, a pot like this one, then you can also wire it to switch between series/parallel, so it's essentially the same mod with the four pickup wires soldered to different places. No reason not to try the coil-tap first. It certainly has its uses.
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Sep 9, 2019 02:33
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Coil tapping and splitting are different things, they are not interchangeable. It's very obvious when you compare the two in action, my Epi SG bridge pups push-pull splits coil and the result is a big drop in dB, the inevitable hum and a thinner sound, it is clearly a split; my Fallout bridge pup's push-pull by contrast has no hum and no loss of dB but a much more usable "single coil" sound, it is clearly a tap. Whether this can be approximated by changing the resistance from series to parallel is doubtful, I would expect at least a drop in dB but it is not ever a tap.
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Sep 9, 2019 04:02
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Not that I play but I can't remember the last time I wore out a pick. I must have developed a softer touch somewhere along the line.
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Sep 9, 2019 05:26
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Sweaty IT Nerd posted:Not that I play but I can't remember the last time I wore out a pick. I must have developed a softer touch somewhere along the line. Or you started using the One True Pick Jazz III which, because they are made of pure goodness, cannot be worn away by mere mortals.
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Sep 9, 2019 13:38
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the rubbery grip Dava pick is the evolution of the jazz 3, wont fall out your hand unless you want it to
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Sep 9, 2019 13:48
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Lumpy posted:Or you started using the One True Pick Jazz III which, because they are made of pure goodness, cannot be worn away by mere mortals. I tear through red ones. However my idea of "tear through" is that the they'll last me a week before they're worn down in that weird "one edge on each side" pattern. So for mortal guitar players that didn't appeal to the thrash metal gods by dipping their right arms in the river Styx, jazz iiis should last nearly forever.
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Sep 9, 2019 13:58
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the carbon fiber jazz iiis last me about 2-3 weeks
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Sep 9, 2019 16:20
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