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Charles posted:Lowtax is going to come back and see all these replies that nobody's written 1000x before, read them, realize how to fix the forum and implement it. he will. he's good at running a forums
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Sep 8, 2019 23:18
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Imagine being thousands of dollars in debt with a broken back, children depending on you, and you wonder if making your website .5 seconds faster is worth 1,500 US dollars per month Goddamn it low tax
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Sep 9, 2019 00:23
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To be fair, it IS real fast 
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Sep 9, 2019 00:24
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If the forums went back to their original speed, I might finally be able to get some work done. Slow it down Tax!
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Sep 9, 2019 00:25
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Yes, it has been pretty drat fast, but it's really not worth it. 1500$ is bonkers.
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Sep 9, 2019 00:37
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spines forever forums never, unless there's some left over from the spine thing you know what I mean
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Sep 9, 2019 03:05
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Only speed it up for central prime time. Make it slower for every other timezone.
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Sep 9, 2019 03:11
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hey wait im the ideas guy here!
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Sep 9, 2019 03:35
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Wizzanthos posted:It'd be really great if we could have some kind of accounting of where all the donations are going. Knowing that the $11k from patreon is going to paying off Lowtax's medical debt first and any changes to the forums won't happen for another decade would at least reduce the number of posts asking about xenforo, and it'd probably help increase the donations if we knew that every extra dollar gets SA 1 day closer to being a less-antiquated forum. The current issue, if you could call it that because the forums are working fine they just aren't getting new features, seems to be a lack of documentation and no current coder. Switching to xenforo, which will take multiple coders and plenty of time, won't suddenly solve either of those issues. I'm pretty sure everyone with experience with applications at this scale or larger are firmly in the "don't switch" camp. I don't even see any tangible gains for end users, and from the perspective of running it the server costs should be the same because the bulk of the cost should be things that are relatively static between current SA and Xenforo. Some guy earlier in the thread volunteered to slowly document things. If Lowtax takes him up on the offer, I'd be willing to document with him. Getting a team of 2-3 people to slowly document things seems like a first step toward moving forward. But, this legitimately takes time. For large, legacy project it takes 3-12 months to get someone up to speed, and even then there's a pretty good chance they haven't been exposed to the entirety of the software. Thinking about it more I'm not even sure how practical it is for me to contribute because I have a job and stuff. I think cost-wise it probably makes more sense to just chip away at updates to the current software. But I haven't seen behind the curtain of SA ever. So it's impossible to say. If something like 3000 templates is the problem then working on refactoring the templating engine might be worthwhile, because that's significantly less effort than migrating to an entire new forum software. My earlier post in the thread touched on how big of a risk the migration would be. People flip out over 1px border changes and minor color changes. Heck, I flipped out when google changed the font's rendering on windows because the new one looked like garbage compared to the old one. A big migration without making it look and feel the same would likely lose tons of users along the way. I'd bet the extended down times ~5 years ago lost quite a few users, and nothing even changed there. Khorne fucked around with this message at 04:27 on Sep 9, 2019 |
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Sep 9, 2019 03:46
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Trying to change software would be insane. The user attrition alone would be immense even with account migration. And it'd probably just replace problems with different problems. If we want to have a dedicated set amount of money go directly to fixing backend issues just hire an actually qualified person/service not related to the site to do it.
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Sep 9, 2019 04:00
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:spines forever forums never, unless there's some left over from the spine thing you know what I mean There's got to be some way to leverage buying lowtax a new spine into more server infrastructure. Do you really need all the nerves to go to the brain? What if we used some of those lanes for a new network card?
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Sep 9, 2019 06:01
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We need to host SA within Lowtax's cyberspine.
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Sep 9, 2019 06:29
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Resting Lich Face posted:We need to host SA within Lowtax's cyberspine. No thanks, this site is gay enough without it being literally inside a man Wizzanthos posted:It'd be really great if we could have some kind of accounting of where all the donations are going. Knowing that the $11k from patreon is going to paying off Lowtax's medical debt first and any changes to the forums won't happen for another decade would at least reduce the number of posts asking about xenforo, and it'd probably help increase the donations if we knew that every extra dollar gets SA 1 day closer to being a less-antiquated forum. Dude, do you know how "donations" work? We are not entitled to audit lowtax medical bills, and why the gently caress would we be? I'm donating to keep the site alive and at a bargain loving price per month compared to the value I've gotten out of it. If you don't like the way the money is spent, don't donate. Lowtax has kept this site alive at bargain bin prices for its users and has refused to monetize the user base and our personal info. That is so loving rare these days I trust lowtax more than I trust my own bank.
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Sep 9, 2019 06:59
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Nice piece of fish posted:Lowtax has kept this site alive at bargain bin prices for its users and has refused to monetize the user base and our personal info. That is so loving rare these days I trust lowtax more than I trust my own bank. This is true, I get 100% fewer emails whenever I update anything forums related compared to when I do anything bank/credit card related. I guess what I'm really saying is, we should be sending Lowtax all our money on the assumption of a small but guaranteed rate of return, with all additional proceeds to be annually distributed between forums members.
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Sep 9, 2019 14:23
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slow forum speed allows us time to cultivate inner patience
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Sep 9, 2019 14:37
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- hi
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Have you considered setting up the forums as a separate legal company which liscenses something awfuls propriety software and domain name for one dollar per year, while racking up huge company debts in hosting fees before finally declaring bankruptcy, before setting up an identical company to continue the forums with, ad infinitum? I mean poo poo it worked for trump like 5 times and he’s president now so how can it possibly be illegal
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Sep 9, 2019 15:23
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Khorne posted:
As a fellow computer toucher who exclusively works with legacy applications I'd also be happy to donate some time to documenting this place if there is a need for that
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Sep 9, 2019 15:37
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RepeatingMeme posted:As a fellow computer toucher who exclusively works with legacy applications I'd also be happy to donate some time to documenting this place if there is a need for that
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Sep 9, 2019 15:53
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Switch us to monthly subscriptions
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Sep 9, 2019 15:57
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Nice piece of fish posted:Lowtax has kept this site alive at bargain bin prices for its users and has refused to monetize the user base and our personal info. That is so loving rare these days I trust lowtax more than I trust my own bank. yeah this is actually really good imo and probably the main reason why this site doesn't suck rear end compared to the rest of the loving internet
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Sep 9, 2019 16:07
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Lowtax, just make it a subreddit. Let them foot the bill for hosting.
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Sep 9, 2019 17:54
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Are lowtax and lady A still together or did he split up with another wife?
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Sep 9, 2019 17:55
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Resting Lich Face posted:Trying to change software would be insane. The user attrition alone would be immense even with account migration. I used to be a strong proponent for changing the software, but this reasoning (from Lowtax in a previous thread) changed my mind and now I agree with this. There's no easy solution, but as slow and painful as it will be, this seems to be the best way to go.
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Sep 9, 2019 17:58
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not worth it. ban all foreign IPs. Keep it Americans only.
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Sep 9, 2019 17:59
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Captain Yossarian posted:Are lowtax and lady A still together or did he split up with another wife?
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Sep 9, 2019 18:00
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Can't we just use IRC or just take the forums to discord guys?
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Sep 9, 2019 19:53
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would it be possible to migrate to Gaia Online?
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Sep 9, 2019 20:28
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Khorne posted:I'm pretty sure everyone with experience with applications at this scale or larger are firmly in the "don't switch" camp. I don't even see any tangible gains for end users, and from the perspective of running it the server costs should be the same because the bulk of the cost should be things that are relatively static between current SA and Xenforo. If changing anything in the current software is so dangerous then why bother with any kind of update? And in that case why even bother with documentation if nothing is to be changed? Either greenfield or go the "if it aint broke dont fix it" route. The whole discussion was aimed to make it more cost efficient in the long run, but if no option is viable then just go with the "keep throwing more money at it" option and focus on the monetization. Anyway poo poo is hosed, because it's not the hosting which will do Lowtax in, it is the lovely american healthcare system. Goons can beat the former, but not the latter.
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Sep 9, 2019 22:59
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Broken Bio Qlock posted:Anyway poo poo is hosed, because it's not the hosting which will do Lowtax in, it is the lovely american healthcare system. Goons can beat the former, but not the latter. Nonsense. We just need a goon in a country with actual healthcare to marry Lowtax so he can go live there. Doesn't even need to be a female goon. It's legal anywhere worth moving to and he already has experience with loveless marriages so any goon will work.
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Sep 9, 2019 23:04
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I'd say Canada but moving here is a bitch and a half even if you marry a citizen.
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Sep 9, 2019 23:24
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Are you suggesting we pimp Lowtax out for the sake for these forums?
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Sep 9, 2019 23:31
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Shut up Meg posted:Are you suggesting we pimp Lowtax out for the sake for these forums? I'm suggesting we all buy Sid a pizza
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Sep 9, 2019 23:49
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He's married to a Canadian but can't move there because he has children with an ex here in the U.S.
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Sep 10, 2019 00:28
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Dial it back to 2001 speed. Let’s do this.
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Sep 10, 2019 01:01
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yello posted:Dial it back to 2001 speed. Let’s do this.  
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Sep 10, 2019 01:05
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Close the forums between the hours of 3am and 9 so, and on holidays. Use the money saved on new spines or sex games on steam or just burn it or w/e
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Sep 10, 2019 01:09
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Khorne posted:What's antiquated about SA compared to a modern forum? Specifically xenforo, because most of the other forum software doesn't scale or sucks for discussions. And xenforo doesn't scale trivially. You're going to end up with a similar situation to current SA after investing a massive amount of development and devops effort into getting xenforo SA-ready. The SA forums' biggest problem (other than Lowtax losing feeling in his left arm and huge medical bills) is that the infrastructure and what Lowtax is paying bills on is sort of scattered around and needs an inventory and documentation. Figure out what is attached to what, that sort of thing. Moving to a new forum software has its own problems, and as is shown by any big migration project (eg Flickr -> Yahoo!, CDBaby, or even closer to home, Radium) there's a chance you will lose users and break the place in worse ways. There are a lot of good incremental changes that can be done and slowly refactoring and fixing the cruft, eg, the templating engine, and that can be done over time. Thank you to the person who earlier posted Joel Spolsky's thing about discarding software to make a new version. There is also Fred Brooks and the Mythical Man Month where he talks about big projects, how much of a mess they were, and how you build one system to throw away. Don't rebuild! Just fix this one.
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Sep 10, 2019 01:37
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bubblebee posted:I'd say Canada but moving here is a bitch and a half even if you marry a citizen. i will trade citizenships with lowtax
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Sep 10, 2019 13:29
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Nice piece of fish posted:Dude, do you know how "donations" work? We are not entitled to audit lowtax medical bills, and why the gently caress would we be? I'm donating to keep the site alive and at a bargain loving price per month compared to the value I've gotten out of it. If you don't like the way the money is spent, don't donate. quote:Lowtax has kept this site alive at bargain bin prices for its users and has refused to monetize the user base and our personal info. That is so loving rare these days I trust lowtax more than I trust my own bank.
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Oct 5, 2019 10:58
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Wizzanthos posted:It'd be really great if we could have some kind of accounting of where all the donations are going. Knowing that the $11k from patreon is going to paying off Lowtax's medical debt first and any changes to the forums won't happen for another decade would at least reduce the number of posts asking about xenforo, and it'd probably help increase the donations if we knew that every extra dollar gets SA 1 day closer to being a less-antiquated forum. Can't anything be simple anymore? Why does everybody need to know every detail about everybody else? Stop trying to control people's lives and just enjoy the forums.
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Oct 5, 2019 11:06
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