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If nothing else it can be a small vignette to break up the main story action (and give everybody else a 2 minute break to stretch your legs, grab a drink, etc) Like anything else it’s a mechanic to introduce some novel scenario and possibly create some friction. Everybody can carry around sippy cups of blood or you can have fun with it
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Sep 9, 2019 22:06
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Make the system interesting to you, find a way to make it engaging. That’s where colorful writing comes into play. Wanting to remove an integral part of the moral dilemma of being a vampire screams laziness to me.
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Sep 9, 2019 22:07
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Yeah I have to say I like making feeding a big deal. It can be kind of annoying at times, but a lot of interesting situations have happened in our Vampire game as a result of (usually botched) feeding scenes.
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Sep 9, 2019 22:30
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Metapod posted:Ah its because it's a v5 mechanic not because it's a bad mechanic that you think it's bad I see No it's a stupid way to burn table time, and would be in any game because it's typically an uneventful individual activity. You don't make the Ranger describe how he shits in the woods in D&D, because it would be exactly as fun as watching a player talk about feeding. Maybe something goes wrong, and that's when you can focus on it. But otherwise? Sure, let's stop the game so Steve can narrate his sketchy craigslist predation fantasy or whatever.
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Sep 9, 2019 23:17
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Dawgstar posted:Go to the Rack, hit a crowded club. Jump in a crowded dance floor, take some sips while grinding all up ons your fellow dancers. It's not super hard. GNU Order posted:Agreed but the opposite. V5 asks you to base your vamp’s personality around their feeding habits. Sure it generally ends up being a solo scene but they’re usually relatively short and can be fun character-building moments (recently my atheist hedonist Toreador DJ has been going to a church group early and “confessing their sins” to the pastor). Plus, if you’re cultivating resonance you can get some RP bonuses for not just breezing over the neck drinky part.
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Sep 9, 2019 23:18
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Doesn't the Kiss muddle with the mortal's memory of how the situation went down? That's how I played it. Since my players were blood mages, they were using a lot of blood, and underlining the difficulty in aquiring it was a point of drama in our game.
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Sep 9, 2019 23:23
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Gobbeldygook posted:Have you ever been on the dance floor of a crowded nightclub? I don’t know who you’ve been playing with, but a character who can’t consistently feed or lacks the foresight to plan creatively in their attempts , AND is incapable of handling the consequences of botching a feed sounds like a player issue and maybe they should play a tabletop that doesn’t require you to completely cut out a core mechanic to what makes the game work. This isn’t a dig against you, it genuinely sounds like they just want to play “goth kids with superpowers “ and that’s valid, and in that case there are plenty of games out there that can facilitate that.
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Sep 9, 2019 23:31
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moths posted:No it's a stupid way to burn table time, and would be in any game because it's typically an uneventful individual activity. Not everything in a tabletop game is going to be a Michael Bay movie filled with action! Blood is very important for a vampire and you need to be able to get it! The feeding mechanic does a good job balancing getting blood easy and having a chance where poo poo goes crazy. I'm sorry your group has weird creeps who cant make feeding entertaining in the slightest.
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Sep 9, 2019 23:32
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Naoto Shirogane posted:I don’t know who you’ve been playing with, but a character who can’t consistently feed or lacks the foresight to plan creatively in their attempts , AND is incapable of handling the consequences of botching a feed sounds like a player issue and maybe they should play a tabletop that doesn’t require you to completely cut out a core mechanic to what makes the game work. I'd reverse this - if someone has made a vampire character, and that vampire character has survived as a vampire for more than a week, then it can't not be true that they don't have some kind of consistent feeding method that works nearly all of the time and allows them to coexist with their fellow vampires under normal conditions. They wouldn't be alive otherwise. So if someone sits down at your table with a vampire character, and you immediately challenge them to correctly and successfully play out some kind of feeding scenario, ready to leap in and punish them with Real Narrative Consequences for every mistake they make in their description, you aren't Storytelling in good faith. It's like playing D&D and challenging the fighter to describe how they strap themselves into their plate armor or the wizard to actually correctly pronounce their next spell's magic words - this is poo poo their character knows, even if they don't! Chill out! V5 makes this a little more explicit with its "predator types". For instance, there's one whose name I forget that basically entails being a mugger - a vampire that just fuckin' grabs people in alleyways and leaves them with a headache and maybe without a wallet. My character in a long-running VtR game from years ago operated like this, although he also did a fair amount of hunting down animals and backpackers. Now, an unkind ST could demand to play this out every time and have it always turns out that your mark is carrying a shotgun with dragonsbreath rounds or is a master mage or something, or at the very least get really weinery about you forgetting to check for streetlights or nearby police officers or whatever. But that's a lovely thing to do! In the World of Darkness, that actually is how some vampires feed on a consistent basis and if you've let a character make a character who operates in that mode you shouldn't be immediately setting up tripwires and pit traps in their path because deep down you don't believe that feeding method is legitimate, or you don't believe that they the player have thought it through with sufficient depth, or something. Ferrinus fucked around with this message at 23:46 on Sep 9, 2019 |
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Sep 9, 2019 23:40
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I think that feeding mechanics have a role in Vampire, in part because it's a careful risk the Kindred must perform in order to survive but has the very real risk of exposure and violating the Masquerade. However, I think that waiving a feeding scene is fine if the PC invests dots in Herds, Ghoul Retainers, etc which can grant them a steady stream of vitae. More so if they're not using blood point intensive powers between nights. I'd totes call for feeding rolls in the aftermath of a brutal combat where an injured vamp needs to find some blood to heal, or drained themselves of vitae, or are cut off from their normal sources of nourishment. Granted, I won't ask to roll for initiative if a vampire tries to grapple a mark and fails (unless they're in view of a cop or in a drug den or place where violence is reciprocated), but I may go "okay you drain the fella but now cops are on the lookout for an assault/mugging which will make future hunting harder/someone in the future may recognize your description/you resorted to feeding in a rival vamp's territory who tries to use that as leverage" and the like.
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Sep 10, 2019 00:01
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So what I'm taking away from this discussion is that you do feeding scenes when it will further the story of the game and be interesting and skip over them as necessary when they aren't.
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Sep 10, 2019 00:11
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Omnicrom posted:So what I'm taking away from this discussion is that you do feeding scenes when it will further the story of the game and be interesting and skip over them as necessary when they aren't. The Traditional Method
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Sep 10, 2019 00:30
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Omnicrom posted:So what I'm taking away from this discussion is that you do feeding scenes when it will further the story of the game and be interesting and skip over them as necessary when they aren't. Exactly. "I'm kinda low so I want to hit the Rack." "Okay, roll <preferred feeding Attribute+Skill with assumed Discipline use>." or "The fight with the Sabbat's shovelheads have left you bloody, bruised and injured and right now the only place you look like you fit into is the local emergency room, and you're sitting on one Blood Point. What do you do?"
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Sep 10, 2019 01:36
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Dawgstar posted:Exactly. "I'm kinda low so I want to hit the Rack." "Okay, roll <preferred feeding Attribute+Skill with assumed Discipline use>." or "The fight with the Sabbat's shovelheads have left you bloody, bruised and injured and right now the only place you look like you fit into is the local emergency room, and you're sitting on one Blood Point. What do you do?" Yup, obtaining your splat's power resource shouldn't be a problem unless it's beyond a routine top off or an increased difficulty in obtaining it is part of your ongoing story.
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Sep 10, 2019 01:44
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Also depending on who the vampire is that is important. Not all vampire have a herd, or a retainer. Especially in games where they are younger vampires without that luxury. Yes sometimes you can skip over a feed and it’s fine if you have a steady stream you can safely use, but my issue is omitting it entirely and how it misses the point of being a vampire in a vampire role playing game.
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Sep 10, 2019 01:46
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Metapod posted:Not everything in a tabletop game is going to be a Michael Bay movie filled with action! Blood is very important for a vampire and you need to be able to get it! The feeding mechanic does a good job balancing getting blood easy and having a chance where poo poo goes crazy. I'm sorry your group has weird creeps who cant make feeding entertaining in the slightest. Exactly nobody is saying any of this! As a group activity, you want the activity to center on the group. It turns out that individually narrating how they each spend their separate lunch breaks is not that.
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Sep 10, 2019 02:38
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A good DM is able to establish compelling and interesting individual character growth that an entire group can enjoy while also weaving it in between group activities.
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Sep 10, 2019 03:06
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^^^ exactly moths st is badmoths posted:Exactly nobody is saying any of this! How are there any individual character growths if there are no individual narrations?
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Sep 10, 2019 03:07
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With posts like that it makes me wonder if you've ever actually played in a game. Especially if you're tying it into individual feeding scenes as last I checked the lunch break was not where most people stick their character growth.
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Sep 10, 2019 03:10
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Is your group hunting in packs?
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Sep 10, 2019 03:11
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moths posted:Is your group hunting in packs? I like playing werewolf, yes
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Sep 10, 2019 03:11
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Rubix Squid posted:With posts like that it makes me wonder if you've ever actually played in a game. Especially if you're tying it into individual feeding scenes as last I checked the lunch break was not where most people stick their character growth. I’ve played in plenty of games where feeding has been used to grow characters either with it going wrong or a scenario being set up in the midst of feeding, but it’s not exclusively used for development. Is there a reason you think it cannot be done besides the fact that you might not like it?
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Sep 10, 2019 03:15
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moths posted:Is your group hunting in packs? If your coterie is not decked out in sleeveless shirts and sunglasses hitting da clubz for da licks, then you're not a real Vampire gamer. Regaining Humanity points by rocking out on the dance floor was canon in Bloodlines' metaplot. There everyone, I wrote your next feeding scene. Libertad! fucked around with this message at 03:19 on Sep 10, 2019 |
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Sep 10, 2019 03:16
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I don't mind using it occasionally but that sort of thing should be an outlier.
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Sep 10, 2019 03:18
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It can be an outlier, but that slim possibility will never exist if it’s simply skipped over. I think the element of surprise of surprise as a storyteller is immensely important and as people said there is a time and a place for it and doing feed scenes constantly is unreasonable, but in my eyes if they don’t have a herd or retainers or a reliable method of getting blood that won’t backfire, there should always be feed scenes. I’m confused as to why you insinuated that I’ve never played a game before, kind of a left field insult.
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Sep 10, 2019 03:23
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That wasn't aimed at you, sorry. It was Metapod that I was grumping at since he appears to be under the impression that Individual growth can't happen without individual scenes. Maybe should have quoted him but that felt iffy since it was the post right above mine.
Rubix Squid fucked around with this message at 03:29 on Sep 10, 2019 |
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Sep 10, 2019 03:26
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Rubix Squid posted:That wasn't aimed at you, sorry. It was Metapod that I was grumping at since he appears to be under the impression that Individual growth can't happen without individual scenes. Okay, just wanted to make sure!
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Sep 10, 2019 03:27
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Still not a fan of always playing out feeding scenes though. I find it takes away the momentum from whatever crazy gonzo shenanigans I'm getting up to at the moment since I generally don't take the intended tone of the game as anything more than a very loose suggestion.
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Sep 10, 2019 03:31
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Feeding scenes don't have to necessarily be about food. If your character isn't hungry then its a perfect time to maybe do a bit of character development, and it is built in to the time anyway. Like if your character is currently building up an armory and is only hungee 2 call your cool contact to see if you can get more weapons in exchange for a boon. Or maybe your character goes on the forums and trolls about "bein sexy". It really is limitless.
Top Hats Monthly fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Sep 10, 2019 |
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Sep 10, 2019 03:40
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Rubix Squid posted:That wasn't aimed at you, sorry. It was Metapod that I was grumping at since he appears to be under the impression that Individual growth can't happen without individual scenes. Maybe should have quoted him but that felt iffy since it was the post right above mine. Individual growth can happen in group scenes! But in individual scenes character growth tends to happen more and typically in more interesting fashion because players have more creative freedom with their character as they get to explore ideas that only pertain to the character!
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Sep 10, 2019 04:03
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Feeding scenes can break up the pace of a game, but well....that's sort of the point a lot of the time. It can be a way of defining who you are, defining them by who they want to be around or who they find disposable. It's also a way of loving with the players and reminding them who they are, for when that's needed. It's actually not that hard to not brutally murder folks while feeding....and pretty much every vampire has. Why? Because they screw up, because they stop caring, because they take it for granted and lose control. If you want to keep them on their toes for some reason [Because that's the tone you want for whats coming, as a warning shot in a game where it's absolutely fine to bust your players for screwing up, because it's fun to gently caress with your players just a little bit every so often] you can make them Actually Do The Hunt. And if it's generally the sort of game where you don't do that because it's trivial for a vampire that's been a vampire for any length of time? They are totally going to assume that there is some catch to the process. And maybe that's what you want. That sort of thing isn't for every game, and not every time, but it's a nice tool to have. Because people do check hospitals for a rise in cases of anemia, for bodies being dropped, they are watching the clubs and the alleys, there are people out there actively looking for you, personally, every night. And if you aren't careful, and maybe even if you are, they will find you. And the great thing about having a tool like that is it's there when you need it and completely ignorable when you don't. e: And it's also a last ditch way to buy time if you rapidly need to come up with Plan J because they expertly blew up everything you had cooking but hey, NOBODY NEEDS TO KNOW THAT HA HA HA. Mulva fucked around with this message at 08:00 on Sep 10, 2019 |
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Sep 10, 2019 07:56
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You can also probably use feeding scenes to highlight the age/class divide, because you have to struggle and suffer and go hungry and spend huge amounts of your waking time engaging in nightclub activities, battening upon the poor, or collecting rats -- meanwhile, Prince Classicname just calls for takeout. Dude can probably literally have a squad of cops come in, line up, and take a blood point off of each of them before blasting their minds and letting them go. Thinking about it, developing some kind of secured and enclosed feeding situation would probably be the best way a vampire could develop "property" they could then share with others to get boons. Strange that this didn't ever seem to get made explicit. The rack, tenements, convention hotels...
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Sep 10, 2019 08:18
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Nessus posted:You can also probably use feeding scenes to highlight the age/class divide, because you have to struggle and suffer and go hungry and spend huge amounts of your waking time engaging in nightclub activities, battening upon the poor, or collecting rats -- meanwhile, Prince Classicname just calls for takeout. Dude can probably literally have a squad of cops come in, line up, and take a blood point off of each of them before blasting their minds and letting them go.
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Sep 10, 2019 09:07
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If you want to play a vampire game where you gloss over where the blood is coming from and just focus on dealing with other vampires and having cool vampire powers, what you really want is to be playing a superhero game
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Sep 10, 2019 13:49
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Froghammer posted:If you want to play a vampire game  Is this some verisimilitude thing?
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Sep 10, 2019 14:04
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There's an interesting thought exercise in figuring out which OWoD splat has it hardest to get their chosen resource. I feel like either mages or changelings.
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Sep 10, 2019 14:05
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Dawgstar posted:There's an interesting thought exercise in figuring out which OWoD splat has it hardest to get their chosen resource. I feel like either mages or changelings. You know what game I like to play? Scarcity economics. I've always maintained that if you have cool things you should be able to do, but then time gate or otherwise lock them behind a door so that players spend more time trying to use them than actually using them, you should maybe change it or play a different game. That's not to say that dealing with refilling the tank scenes can't be interesting, but I would hate to spend an hour on it every session. It would lose any drama it might otherwise have at my table if we were to deal with it every week. I'd rather spend that time giving them opportunity to use the resource instead. It's a lot like encumbrance tracking in old school DnD. It was there, and it makes sense, but I don't want to pay attention to how much the gold you're carrying weighs because we're trying to deal with the plot to overthrow the Queen of Agratha or something. Basically, if it's not adding something to your table, don't use it. If it's fun for the people at your table, use it. Attempts to generalize to all tables are futile.
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Sep 10, 2019 14:32
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The worst part of feeding is that there's always one fucker that roleplays it like creepy foreplay, oh and Larpers, gently caress Larpers forever.
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Sep 10, 2019 14:41
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Angry Lobster posted:oh and Larpers, gently caress Larpers forever. -Spend 1 of your 3 downtime actions feeding or have a dot of herd And in-game feeding: -say you are feeding to an ST. Go hang out in the OOC only smoking area for 15 real minutes. You are now at full blood
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Sep 10, 2019 14:48
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Naoto Shirogane posted:A good DM is able to establish compelling and interesting individual character growth that an entire group can enjoy while also weaving it in between group activities. There's nothing a hypothetical good ST can't make compelling and interesting. But that's a meaningless metric because basically nobody has access to the hypothetical good ST who can make three-to-five average players' antics as captivating as a well-written, well-acted Netflix binge-phenomenon. You can always lay the blame at the ST for not being good enough, but it's unreasonable and has no limits. It's far more interesting to look at what the average ST can do with the game as written, because most tables are going to actually have access to an average ST and the written game. Can an average ST make feeding - a situation that VTM/VTR fiction and rules often portrays as individul, sometimes even as perfunctory as having a lunch break - interesting for everyone at the table? I'd say the answer here is far more likely to be "not really", because characters acting on their own just isn't very easy to make interesting in most games, and VTM/VTR doesn't really have all that many well-written tools to help make it interesting. (There are some but from what I can recall they're somewhat situational.)
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Sep 10, 2019 14:49
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