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I think Morrison's take, for me, descends below the various 90s "uh oh, Magneto is a bad guy again!" stories in that it makes specific allusions to Nazi Germany and casts Magneto, a Holocaust survivor, as Hitler. Like, he's marching humans into giant ovens and writing articles about how humans are incapable of feeling pain. Also doing Mengele-style torture experiments on humans, according to Toad. It's just a lot.
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Sep 6, 2019 08:47
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CubanMissile posted:Their primary goal right now is to protect omega level mutants. That being said, good luck to any of those clowns trying to take out Mags. I'm now picturing a "How it Should Have Ended" version of the story. Humans: The mutants are on their way. We must be prepared to do whatever is needed to repel them! (Shuttles flies up to the station. Then stops. We see some glowing purple energy. The clamps all release and the Strong Sad looking head is jettisoned into the Sun.) Mother Mold: I'm sad that I'm falling into the Sun. Scientist: No! That thing was so expensive! At least all our Sentinals will destroy their shuttle. (Que an iron asteroid veer off course and fly into the Sentinels causing a traffic pile up.) Scientist: Nuts! (Shuttle flies home.)
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Sep 6, 2019 11:12
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Android Blues posted:I think Morrison's take, for me, descends below the various 90s "uh oh, Magneto is a bad guy again!" stories in that it makes specific allusions to Nazi Germany and casts Magneto, a Holocaust survivor, as Hitler. Like, he's marching humans into giant ovens and writing articles about how humans are incapable of feeling pain. Also doing Mengele-style torture experiments on humans, according to Toad. It's just a lot. Yeah, this is the problem with it. Not only was turning Mags into a cliched super villain not the best- or most original- but that poo poo with the giant ovens is extremely problematic in ways that even crucifying Xavier can't touch. This poo poo was gross. One thing I got from this latest issue is that... it didn't seem like anymore of a "suicide mission" than about 400 other X-Men missions. How many times have they infiltrated a place and just loving wrecked poo poo? I understand that for story-telling purposes, this had to be harder or whatever but it still seemed a little weird. Billzasilver posted:My favorite laugh was when Wolverine finished his bit and he left about 10 corpses. Nightcrawler finishes his bit in the next panel and leaves two guys tied up. This was fantastic, though. Strange Poon posted:To come back to Magneto, I get the feeling Hickman isn't trying to reform Magento either but has a different take on him than Grant. The series so far has made me more sympathetic to Mageneto's extremism and I can say for the first time that, even though I think Apocalypse is a villain, I can kind of understand why he's doing what he's doing. Much like Moira, re-living these experiences over and over can radicalize you. And it seems- assuming certain things about the HoX story we're seeing- to have radicalized Xavier. "No more" is a pretty hardcore statement when it comes to all of this. How much of that radicalization is exposure to Moira? How much is it just from this Xavier's personal experience? What Hickman and Co. have managed to do is reinvigorate these discussions again, even though all of us have probably had them 100 times in our lives. After the death of Rahne fallout, I legitimately wondered what purpose the X-Men have anymore. If representation of marginalized characters increases- as it should- then why do we need fictional characters meant to take their place? What's the point of having characters that POCs, LBGTQ+, etc. "relate" to when really we should just have more characters directly representing those groups. But these books have done a good job of reframing all of this. Hickman is obviously relying on the Jewish experience as a guide for his interpretation (Mags in Jerusalum in HoX 1 was not a subtle thing; nor is Krakoa's obvious Israel comparison), but focusing on the inevitability of oppression is pretty unique. That in itself is a good metaphor for mutantdom: if they're meant to represent any or all marginalized groups, then there will always be someone under the boot.
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Sep 6, 2019 13:16
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I wanna say the Magneto age reversion was a pre-Claremont thing
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Sep 6, 2019 17:20
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Ate My Balls Redux posted:I wanna say the Magneto age reversion was a pre-Claremont thing Yeah, he was turned into a baby before Claremont started writing X-Men.
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Sep 6, 2019 17:55
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Skwirl posted:Yeah, he was turned into a baby before Claremont started writing X-Men. Yeah I actually went back and skimmed real quick, the entire reason Magneto infantalizes the X-Men with the Nanny robot is "revenge" for his having been de-aged. Claremont has a lot of weird fetishy stuff pop up in his books, but that one was genuinely a good callback
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Sep 6, 2019 18:08
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gently caress man, the brood saga is so drat weird. Glad I'm through it finally but what a trip.
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Sep 6, 2019 22:52
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Kingtheninja posted:gently caress man, the brood saga is so drat weird. Glad I'm through it finally but what a trip. And it gets referenced for ages after.
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Sep 6, 2019 23:39
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One of the first X-Men arcs I ever owned was the one shot miniseries Day of Wrath where an extremely 90s X-Men team was fighting the brood and Bishop was even implying that there would be divergent brood species in the future, and I've always waited for Hannah Connover to make a comeback somehow and she never has (of course, a lot of that got co-opted for Broo's story ac).
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Sep 7, 2019 01:25
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I remember that one. With the church infecting people with the Brood. My X-Men figures had a lot of battles with my Alien figures.
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Sep 7, 2019 02:07
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I remember when Ghost Rider got infected with a brood and everyone poo poo their pants, and then I think Betsy just hit him with her psychic knife and it severed the link between the brood and Danny Ketch and it was just a big nothingburger. I need to sit down and read the whole Wolverine and the X-men series cause that brood kid was adorable.
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Sep 7, 2019 09:36
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CubanMissile posted:I remember when Ghost Rider got infected with a brood and everyone poo poo their pants, and then I think Betsy just hit him with her psychic knife and it severed the link between the brood and Danny Ketch and it was just a big nothingburger. It was really off the wall but an overall fun read, if I remember.
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Sep 7, 2019 11:21
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He hasn’t shown up much, but Broo is an official Avengers support staff member.
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Sep 7, 2019 11:28
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Open Marriage Night posted:He hasn’t shown up much, but Broo is an official Avengers support staff member. Hell yeah.
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Sep 7, 2019 12:28
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BrianWilly posted:I will say that if there's one thing Hickman's run has done so far, it's to make me think twice about the plight of humans in a future run by mutants. It might be partially because he's making Xavier such a big dick and Krakoa really bizarrely antagonistic, but I'm actually a bit more interested in the human side of the argument this time around instead of just brushing it off like every other time someone has tried establish to these sorts of anti-mutant characters. I'm reminded of Francis Fukuyama writing a book about how transhumanism would undermine liberal democracy because it would mean the range of human capabilities would suddenly blow out to multiple times what it is now - and the genetic lottery already causes some huge disparities. A mutant world would be much the same in that regard, you're quite right.
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Sep 7, 2019 15:25
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BrianWilly posted:I will say that if there's one thing Hickman's run has done so far, it's to make me think twice about the plight of humans in a future run by mutants. It might be partially because he's making Xavier such a big dick and Krakoa really bizarrely antagonistic, but I'm actually a bit more interested in the human side of the argument this time around instead of just brushing it off like every other time someone has tried establish to these sorts of anti-mutant characters. Imagine a world where the super soldier serum costs 20k and is covered by your health insurance. Imagine a world where people have mostly forgot mutants are a thing because the capacity to choose your own genetic development rendered the random attributes of the x-gene totally irrelevant. Imagine a world where mutants died out and nobody noticed for decades because everyone just stopped caring. e: That is the future of the Marvel setting if they were allowed to actually not be close to our world, by the by. What was practically a miracle in WW2 would be trivial a hundred years later. And at that point you have a Steve Rogers as your baseline. Someone smarter, faster, stronger, that can potentially live for centuries. Mulva fucked around with this message at 18:43 on Sep 7, 2019 |
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Sep 7, 2019 15:57
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CubanMissile posted:I remember when Ghost Rider got infected with a brood and everyone poo poo their pants, and then I think Betsy just hit him with her psychic knife and it severed the link between the brood and Danny Ketch and it was just a big nothingburger. That was a weird time for Ghost Rider, too. Blackout had just torn out Danny's throat so he was stuck as Ghost Rider or else he'd, you know, die.
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Sep 7, 2019 18:11
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CubanMissile posted:I remember when Ghost Rider got infected with a brood and everyone poo poo their pants, and then I think Betsy just hit him with her psychic knife and it severed the link between the brood and Danny Ketch and it was just a big nothingburger. I remember that. Mostly because Ghost Rider tore out the Brood Queens skeleton. And then she got up from that.
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Sep 7, 2019 18:25
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Mulva posted:Imagine a world where the super soldier serum costs 20k and is covered by your health insurance. Imagine a world where people have mostly forgot mutants are a thing because the capacity to choose your own genetic development rendered the random attributes of the x-gene totally irrelevant. Imagine a world where mutants died out and nobody noticed for decades because everyone just stopped caring. Ellis or Hickman would be the ones to show that, but only in elseworlds/timelines pretty clearly quarantined. I'm thinking of Steve Rogers jumping into the future in the lead-up to Secret Wars, and him meeting Franklin Richards in 500 years when there's pretty clearly been a Technological Singularity, with Franklin's presence implying it wasn't such a bad thing. We won't see that here, of course, since the focus is on mutants.
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Sep 8, 2019 06:09
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This is why, in spite of all appearances and how clumsily it was handled, I actually really liked the idea of Inhumans just popping up and becoming this unexpected rival species in the Marvel superhuman echelon. It just makes things more interesting that this planet has become a powder keg breeding ground of superpowers of all stripes, all having to share the same bathroom in the morning. So there's mutants claiming to be the future of the planet, yup, except then there's Inhumans over there who have the same genetic advantages, and then there's "ordinary" humans who still keep getting science-experimented into Hulks and Spider-Men and Ant-Men and at least a couple of cat people, and then sure why not apparently artificial intelligence is a valid singular evolving faction all on its own, and oops can't forget about the Eternals, whatever the heck their whole deal is...and apparently all of these weirdos are on a five-way footrace to see who can ascend to Celestial status first. What'll happen then? Who knows! Of all writers, Hickman is definitely the one who gets that the future of the Marvel universe, as it currently stands, should look a lot more interesting and bizarre than "just" everyone having flying cars, or the entire planet turning into Arizona.
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Sep 8, 2019 07:42
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danbanana posted:And it seems- assuming certain things about the HoX story we're seeing- to have radicalized Xavier. "No more" is a pretty hardcore statement when it comes to all of this. How much of that radicalization is exposure to Moira? How much is it just from this Xavier's personal experience? I've been thinking about this and even though the no eye / weird helmet design seems to be a Hickman staple, I realized Professor X's Cerebra helmet seems to echo Cyclops' mask from the Bendis run, after Cyclops has gone full-on mutant terrorist. I'm wondering if it's intentional or not.
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Sep 9, 2019 13:38
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You must be confused. Cyclops has never been a terrorist. He has fought terrorists, like SHIELD, numerous times though.
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Sep 9, 2019 14:02
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I have to say I think Paul Smith might be my favorite penciler during Claremonts run. He uses a lot of thin lines and really leaves a lot of open space for vibrant solid colors. His covers for 167 and 168 are some of my favorite simply because they have large chunks of color popping through (I think it works best with wolverines brown and gold costume).
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Sep 9, 2019 16:26
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Kingtheninja posted:I have to say I think Paul Smith might be my favorite penciler during Claremonts run. He uses a lot of thin lines and really leaves a lot of open space for vibrant solid colors. His covers for 167 and 168 are some of my favorite simply because they have large chunks of color popping through (I think it works best with wolverines brown and gold costume). People talked a lot of poo poo about the quality of the Essentials collections- reprinting on newsprint isn't going to be best for reproductions- but I loved the B&W presentation to see what the art without the 70s/80s quality color reproduction. Smith and BWS' work in those periods are obscenely good. Too bad I was lax in buying them and now some of the later editions go for obscene amounts of money...
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Sep 9, 2019 17:19
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danbanana posted:People talked a lot of poo poo about the quality of the Essentials collections- reprinting on newsprint isn't going to be best for reproductions- but I loved the B&W presentation to see what the art without the 70s/80s quality color reproduction. Smith and BWS' work in those periods are obscenely good. Too bad I was lax in buying them and now some of the later editions go for obscene amounts of money... I wish they would come out with a different paper stock for reprints of pre 90s stuff. That stuff on glossy paper just looks wrong. Whenever they try to color stuff to look like vintage stuff it still looks wrong on glossy paper.
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Sep 9, 2019 20:09
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 I really like the way he draws Cyclops. It reminds me of Elvis Costello, and "angry, repressed nerd" is a great read of Scott's character.
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Sep 10, 2019 07:21
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I was thinking today about what Krakoan regeneration might mean for depowered characters like Moonstar. If Krakoa could reboot the DNA or if Wanda completely excised the X-Gene.
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Sep 10, 2019 20:05
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Beerdeer posted:I was thinking today about what Krakoan regeneration might mean for depowered characters like Moonstar. If Krakoa could reboot the DNA or if Wanda completely excised the X-Gene. She's in the Hickman written New Mutants book were getting after HoxPox so I bet we find out.
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Sep 10, 2019 20:13
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Beerdeer posted:I was thinking today about what Krakoan regeneration might mean for depowered characters like Moonstar. If Krakoa could reboot the DNA or if Wanda completely excised the X-Gene. If you want a mindscrew, think what Krakoan regeneration means for Moira.
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Sep 10, 2019 20:54
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Is Krakoan regeneration actually a thing beyond a fan theory, Charles seemed pretty sure Cyclops, Jean and the rest of his X-Men were dead, dead at the end of the most recent issue.
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Sep 10, 2019 20:56
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So, one thing I've been thinking about, with the Powers of X, if we assume X1 is supposed to be ten years after the founding of the X-Men, when in comics do you actually think that is? Because it's definitely been more than 10 years since the events depicted in Uncanny X-Men happened, general Marvel sliding timescale is that it's slightly less than 15 years later than the Fantastic Four had their ill-fated flight, which is roughly the same time Peter Parker was bit by that spider and the X-Men stopped Magneto from stealing that missile. Typing this out, and knowing the events depicted in House of X are probably from a previous Moira life, X1 is probably when Moira "died" from the legacy virus, I didn't read X-Men in the 90's and my catching up has mostly been Claremont's stuff, what was the status quo then, had Magneto torn out Wolverine's adamantium yet? was this pre or post Onslaught, did people know the nice Magneto was actually a clone?
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Sep 10, 2019 21:07
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Skwirl posted:Is Krakoan regeneration actually a thing beyond a fan theory, Charles seemed pretty sure Cyclops, Jean and the rest of his X-Men were dead, dead at the end of the most recent issue. The first scene of the first issue shows them emerging from a pod.
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Sep 10, 2019 21:47
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Aphrodite posted:The first scene of the first issue shows them emerging from a pod. That could be a billion things, I think if they were just going to pop out of a pod Charles wouldn't be screaming NO MORE for four pages.
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Sep 10, 2019 21:52
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here I was thinking Xavier was probably the Maker in disguise or something I mean it seems kind of obvious?
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Sep 10, 2019 21:54
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Nodosaur posted:here I was thinking Xavier was probably the Maker in disguise or something Hickman has explicitly stated that he wants this to be standalone. Inexplicably making the book revolve around the Maker would make it very hard to be a standalone.
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Sep 10, 2019 22:09
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Nodosaur posted:here I was thinking Xavier was probably the Maker in disguise or something We're gonna have this discussion every issue, aren't we? 
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Sep 10, 2019 22:14
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Even this late in the game we aren't entirely sure about what Xavier is like under that Cerebro helmet. Both literally and figuratively speaking, mind you. I don't think he's another person altogether though.
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Sep 10, 2019 22:19
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I'm solidly on the idea that this is Moira's 6th life, it just tracks really well with what we know. Utopian co-existence, kill all the Trasks because gently caress Sentinels, Magneto's more radical approach to co-existence, full on nihilistic "Yeah, I'll work with Apocalypse."
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Sep 10, 2019 22:23
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Skwirl posted:I'm solidly on the idea that this is Moira's 6th life, it just tracks really well with what we know. Utopian co-existence, kill all the Trasks because gently caress Sentinels, Magneto's more radical approach to co-existence, full on nihilistic "Yeah, I'll work with Apocalypse." Except it isn't until after Moira's 7th life that she realizes Sentinels are inevitable, so knowing that they must target Nimrod specifically has to come after. It isn't until Moira's 9th that she learns what pivotal moment Nimrod is "conceived" at, hence the destroy Mother Mold at all costs suicide mission.
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Sep 11, 2019 01:13
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Aphrodite posted:The first scene of the first issue shows them emerging from a pod. What if that scene happens after the HoX stuff we've seen?
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Sep 11, 2019 01:24
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