|
eq had several different types of pvp servers which was cool. since one of the pvp servers was at the top of the list i made my first character there and didn't realize i was getting stomped by players when someone asked me in freeport if i wanted to hunt dark elves.
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2019 16:34
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 21:55 |
|
|
Kaysette posted:Is there a thread for that? I haven't gotten in the alpha yet but it was on my radar of things to look forward to. What's bad about it? I know Perfect World was kind of a red flag for me... The game is split up into different zones, these are the "Frontiers" from its name. Different frontiers have different enemies, in the goblin frontier you kill goblins, in the bug (hyvid) frontier you kill bugs. You better enjoy killing the same types of enemies over and over in slightly different variations of the same environment because you're going to be doing it for the equivalent of around 30 levels, and if by golly you haven't had your fill of killing the same goblins in the same villages by then, don't worry, you can do it infinity more times in the mapworks. You can also pay infinity real life money to have a higher chance of getting better drops from them, fun stuff. If you get bored of killing goblins and decide to break up the monotony by killing bugs instead, your gear scales down to the level of the zone. Just kidding, it scales down below that level because any gear that didn't drop in the frontier you're in gets a level penalty. Also gear is specific to the zone; goblins do fire damage, so gear that drops in the goblin zones has fire resist, bugs do poison damage so that gear has poison resist, and so you need to accumulate a different gear set for each frontier. You have a fort that you can decorate with various items, or more like you have to decorate it. The fort is tied to a bunch of game mechanics, so without certain buildings you can't train skills for example. Fort decorations and buildings are crafted. You gather wood by cutting down trees and refining it into crafting materials at your fort's saw mill. Refining involves waiting real world time. You can randomly find other players' forts in the world while adventuring, says their marketing material, but it's not as interesting as it sounds. Each frontier is made up from a bunch of major areas, which are all completely linear. When you reach the end of an area, you enter a subarea that leads to the next area. These subareas are all entirely identical, they have waypoint and a fort, always in the same place. To find a player's fort you enter the subzone and go to the fort and a random player's fort will be there, they're not something you can just happen across in the world. Training skills requires an exponentially increasing amount of skill points, which drop as a currency from mobs just like gold. You spend the skill points by building the appropriate building for your class in your fort, and then "buying" the skill you want to unlock. There's no skill tree or level requirements, instead skills are gated behind the upgrade level of the skill building. Upgrading the skill building requires an ever increasing amount of crafting materials. On top of this you have a gear skill level which determines what level of gear you can equip, this level is frontier specific, if you have Goblin weapon level 5 you can use level 5 goblin weapons, and if you have Goblin armour level 5 you can wear level 5 goblin items, but you will need to spend skill points on the hyvid weapon skill and the hyvid armour skill to use items from the bug frontier. Your gear level is upgraded by spending skill points, so you have to choose if you want to learn a new skill or upgrade your item level. Characters have a relic weapon, in addition to normal weapons, which is designed to be a sort of "ultimate." It's stronger than regular weapons and has special abilities or other effects. You can switch to your relic for a short period of time and then it goes onto a long cooldown before you can switch to it again. Relics gain XP and level up, and if you want to change relics you will have to start levelling the new one up again. Relics are crafted using a significant amount of the same crafting materials that you use to make and upgrade your skill buildings, so you'll be deciding if you want to create a relic to replace the starter relic, or unlock new skills. If you decide to unlock skills first, all the XP your start relic gains in the meantime will be for nothing when you replace it. What a conundrum. Don't worry though, the stated plan is to sell relics as microtransactions, so that solves that problem. Going through dungeons is a tedious slog. You take a step, a gong plays, and there's goblins falling from the ceiling, or climbing out of the floor, or crawling out of a crack in the wall. You have to wait for the animation spawning them to finish and then you can start fighting them. You finish off that pack, take another step, and GONG, waiting for more animations to finish. It's like someone thought an ARPG should feel like fighting zubats in Mt Moon. It's already a pretty mediocre game and then you subtract the microtransactions. They did a whole song and dance about gambling bad, loot boxes bad, and then announced they'll be selling map scrolls that grant you access to dungeons with an increased luck modifier, and there will be no limit to how many you can buy or how many of these dungeons you can do. This is different from loot boxes because it has more steps. Granted it's still in alpha, but was supposed to be releasing this year which doesn't look like it's going to happen, but so little has improved since the alpha started last year so I don't have high hopes.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2019 18:08
|
|
|
that uhhhh all sounds pretty lovely. thanks for typing it up.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2019 18:26
|
|
|
Chomp8645 posted:This describes many game communities. I was around when learning skills got removed, Most of EVE felt it was a good idea since all new toons were useless for the first 4 months since the skills would reduce training by years at the time. For a newer game to take this model I'd add a catch up mechanism from launch such that a new player can catch up to the pack in so many months before slowing down. The elite guys who spend money on +5 implants and the like would still get their rewards, but the new guy would not be sitting in a frig while the entire universe is fighting in battleships, at least for not very long.
|
|
#
?
Sep 11, 2019 18:31
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:Wow having a hard faction split is interesting. Its true to the lore and keeps sides separate, although that may build toxicity. I'd say it reduced toxicity more than anything. You can't gank your own faction members, and if an opposing faction member ganks you, there's nothing personal about it since that's just war (and you get honor for it). And usually, if you say "hey these dudes are ganking me" in general chat, you'll usually get some help and you'll have some fun skirmishes. I mean, if there's PvP in a open-world RPG, some people are always going to take it too seriously and there's not much you can do about that besides go the carebear route and ruin it for everyone Edit: Oh yeah, the honor thing doesn't really apply when it's a level 60 rogue ganking level 20s in Redridge or whatever. But still I think a faction setting makes it less vitriolic overall Minorkos fucked around with this message at 02:40 on Sep 12, 2019 |
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 02:31
|
|
|
Truga posted:sad to hear new torchlight is bad.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 04:19
|
|
|
Faction splits in MMOs are generally a bad idea because you have to make double the content and a lot of your players won't see half of it, but WoW has basically unlimited budget so go hog wild It is funny that they put the undead and tauren in the same faction though
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 11:28
|
|
|
i want to be able to kill anyone who is in my way because i'm better than 99% of video gamers and that should count for something
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 13:19
|
|
|
1001 Arabian dicks posted:i want to be able to kill anyone who is in my way because i'm better than 99% of video gamers and that should count for something It's the fundamental flaw of the genre.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 14:06
|
|
|
Gort posted:Faction splits in MMOs are generally a bad idea because you have to make double the content No you don't. Neither WoW nor any other faction MMO has. It's more work, but it ain't even close to double. And that's obvious if you've ever played one.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 14:36
|
|
|
Minorkos posted:I'd say it reduced toxicity more than anything. You can't gank your own faction members, and if an opposing faction member ganks you, there's nothing personal about it since that's just war (and you get honor for it). And usually, if you say "hey these dudes are ganking me" in general chat, you'll usually get some help and you'll have some fun skirmishes. Yeah that's a fair point, I was kinda thinking about that too. I think intentionally limiting player communication can actually do wonders for toxicity. Consider Dark Souls where all you can do is use gestures. Nobody ever tells you to gently caress your mother on dark souls, because they can't. Chomp8645 posted:And that's obvious if you've ever played one. Chill.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 17:00
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:I think intentionally limiting player communication can actually do wonders for toxicity. Consider Dark Souls where all you can do is use gestures. Nobody ever tells you to gently caress your mother on dark souls, because they can't. *Points down at u*
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 17:02
|
|
|
Try tongue, but hole
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 17:04
|
|
|
Glenn Quebec posted:Try tongue, but hole Horse, but hole
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 17:21
|
|
|
Don’t give up! Skeleton! The encouraging skeleton messages were always my favourite.
|
|
#
?
Sep 12, 2019 17:45
|
|
|
Glenn Quebec posted:Anyone remember that awful game FACES OF MANKIND? Face of mankind was legit good on release (to 14 year old me), I was a rank 6 in the FDC (the army basically) and it was fun leading hundreds of nerds into war against the mercs or the cops. It was basically planetside but with 8 factions and a bit of politics thrown in
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 00:58
|
|
|
Degs posted:To add on, as far as tab targeting gear-based PVP goes, I don't think I've ever had a better time. Boats and gliders, weird combos, fairly unique spells, very fluid movement, mmm. Just so good. Well that sounds awful. RNG crafting can suck me right off.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 03:29
|
|
|
Khorne posted:yeah but MMOs that do this make it so levels and gear completely invalidate your skill and then add endless money/time sinks into improving gear gear and items should give a bonus, but not so much that personal skill is irrelevant. it's a balancing act
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 06:29
|
|
|
Khorne posted:yeah but MMOs that do this make it so levels and gear completely invalidate your skill and then add endless money/time sinks into improving gear I think this is one of those things that the current MMORPG fanbase just doesn't want to change. The idea that a level 30 character would be able to outskill and defeat a level 60 character is not only a failure of game design to them, it's morally wrong as the level 30 hasn't spent as much time and effort on the game and doesn't deserve to win. So when you suggest that the game should be largely skill-based rather than effort-based, you tend to get a lot of angry responses from MMORPG players who tend to view the genre as more like a job or a religion than a game. The endless money/time sink in regards to gear is another MMORPG holdover that normal people tend to despise, but MMORPG players consider integral to the genre. What I'd like to see is an actual action game with actually decent gameplay like Mordhau or Battlefield, but with open world RPG mechanics. You could get better gear, but it would only scale up to a certain point, and it would also drop on death (or rather you'd pay to spawn with your loadout). Gear wouldn't be too expensive even if you were buying endgame gear, but there would still be somewhat of a risk-reward mechanic, meaning you could be buying cheap and reliable guns and risk to lose little, or you could be buying expensive guns with extra features and risk to lose a lot. But in a PvP battle, the good player with a cheap gun would still have a decent chance against a guy with the expensive gun. But for that to work, the point of the game would have to be something other than an endless number-increasing treadmill and it'd take more effort and skill to design something like that. Minorkos fucked around with this message at 08:02 on Sep 13, 2019 |
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 07:58
|
|
|
For the current fanbase, yes. But I think we've also seen that WoW and FFXIV don't completely satisfy the entire market for mmos. There are definitely other crowds that would like to see more balance. Games like Division, Destiny, Anthem, Warframe, etc. come close to being an MMO and all have a good bit more skill than WoW/FFXIV do, although varying levels of stats mattering. (In Division stats are still pretty huge, In Destiny it depends heavily on which mode, etc.) I really think if Destiny didn't keep loving up they could be the amazing mmo in a lot of ways. But Bungie keeps repeating mistakes and developing throw-away content so they can't make long-term design progress.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 08:08
|
|
|
Yeah I think there will eventually be a good MMORPG, it just won't brand itself as such. At this point, the MMORPG brand is so poisoned that I can't imagine it helping a game's marketing unless it's specifically another "WoW killer". Instead it'll likely just be something from a dev looking to make a Division or Destiny styled game, except in a more open world setting with dedicated servers. And it probably won't have 4000 players on a server but rather more like 200.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 08:21
|
|
|
idk all my friends are thirsting for an MMO, a properly executed open world sandbox MMO would make a killing right now with the right polish and mechanics look how crazy atlas blew up even with the loving trash launch and and change in direction
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 08:49
|
|
|
when i read the thread title that's the kind of thing that would make the first actually good mmo. it's what i wanted back in the late 90s/early 00s bad.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 13:10
|
|
|
Give it a proper modern graphics overhaul and Minecraft is the good MMO people are looking for. No I don't just mean "God Rays". It needs that too obviously but all those character sliders from Black Desert et al and stuff like that.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 15:55
|
|
|
DancingShade posted:Give it a proper modern graphics overhaul and Minecraft is the good MMO people are looking for. Nah, Minecraft is a pure sandbox. There's zero content other than what you build yourself. EVE Online has more content than Minecraft. People do want more freedom than WoW gives them, but Minecraft is all freedom, no game. I had a lot of fun playing with legos but legos aren't an MMO. Everquest Next / Landmark was gonna be Minecraft + MMO but that flopped hard.
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 23:31
|
|
|
2004: World of Wacraft is the best MMO 2019: 
|
|
#
?
Sep 13, 2019 23:32
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:Nah, Minecraft is a pure sandbox. There's zero content other than what you build yourself. EVE Online has more content than Minecraft. People don't actually want sandbox MMOs. Because the key aspect of MMOs is persistence. If you're in a sandbox, you build a castle. If the sandbox is persistent, someone will kick over your castle probably when you leave home for the night. Much like an actual sandbox, the joy of playing in one is often ruined by well, other people. Even if you're the kind of person that thrives on conflict and PvP, eventually you need to step away, and when you do so, you will find yourself greatly behind everyone else. That's why as far as I'm concerned, the only sandbox MMOs that really work, are ones that have frequent resets and wipes. EVE only being the exception, because of how much powerlevels are rubber-banded in it. Even then the cycle for these sandboxes is basically the same. The first month the server resets the population spikes, and by the end of the third month, the population is down to 10% of the server reset.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2019 03:12
|
|
|
there are different layers of sandbox, there needs to a form of permanence (character progression, for example) and a change (castles or someshit). you can build up your character knowing it's gonna be there in the longterm, but you can also complete [sandbox objectives] archeage was really good for a while, esp on the KR realms but then trion hosed it all up
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2019 03:24
|
|
|
SweetBro posted:People don't actually want sandbox MMOs. Because the key aspect of MMOs is persistence. If you're in a sandbox, you build a castle. If the sandbox is persistent, someone will kick over your castle probably when you leave home for the night. Much like an actual sandbox, the joy of playing in one is often ruined by well, other people. Even if you're the kind of person that thrives on conflict and PvP, eventually you need to step away, and when you do so, you will find yourself greatly behind everyone else. Yeah very true, and this is why Ark and Rust and DayZ don't remotely scratch the MMO itch. They're much closer to Battle Royale style games.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2019 03:25
|
|
|
I just want that co op fantasy minecraft thing they were coming out with that has Borderlands rando loot. I really don't give a poo poo about playing with unwashed plebeian masses in a game anymore. Most of them are just not worth my time and I already have met more than enough people that suit me to play video games with.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2019 04:48
|
|
|
Then you don't want an mmo. But other people do.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2019 04:56
|
|
|
Plenty of them out there, some worth playing even.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2019 05:44
|
|
|
Givin posted:Plenty of them out there, some worth playing even. no
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2019 09:33
|
|
|
DancingShade posted:Give it a proper modern graphics overhaul and Minecraft is the good MMO people are looking for. I was going to mention this but thought I'd be alone and get some crazy looks. You really don't need grindy leveling or 1% drop chance uber gear for a good PvP MMO, easily broken, easily replaced gear works great. During the early days of minecraft if you found the right PvP/Building/cities or faction server to settle on, it was essentially the levelless persistent online world people were looking for, all that mattered was your equipment and what little skill that could be brought to the spam click and knockback combat or what fiendish traps you could think up to catch raiders entering the city, there was just enough griefing that people could full loot each other and look for loot in chests in the cities but you wouldn't log on to find someone dumped lava and cobble all over your recreation of the sistine chapel. You had your PvE adventures of exploring new caves and areas with friends for more materials to use in PvP or construction, or the PvP side of trying to find someone else's city or mineshaft and trying to get in or marking down the coordinates to raid later. I personally have high hopes for Hytale to relive that with a competent developer behind it that knows what attracted people to their minecraft servers, and if it doesn't live up to that on release they are heavily focused on modding and giving people creation tools to create the sort of server they want, which could end up being a MMO type server with stats on loot and whatever else.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2019 17:05
|
|
|
That is not really a PvE experience, that's just a sandbox. Like I said before, if you think minecraft is an mmo, then you should be happy with all the DayZ, Rust, ARK, etc. etc. etc. etc. games out there. That's exactly what they are. Minecraft with better graphics.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2019 17:11
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:That is not really a PvE experience, that's just a sandbox. Like I said before, if you think minecraft is an mmo, then you should be happy with all the DayZ, Rust, ARK, etc. etc. etc. etc. games out there. You have persistence, grow in wealth, and all of that. Modded minecraft has a ton of things that would translate well into an MMO. It already almost is one. There are people who spend 1000+ hours to hit the "endgame", and the progression is very similar to an MMO but it's generally not focused on combat. Minecraft is coded kinda awful though so modded mc caps out at ~12-20 people online at once. Non-modded caps out in the three figure range. Khorne fucked around with this message at 17:32 on Sep 14, 2019 |
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2019 17:25
|
|
|
It is literally a Player vs Environment experience.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2019 17:30
|
|
|
Zaphod42 posted:That is not really a PvE experience lol what? have you played minecraft?
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2019 17:31
|
|
|
Khorne posted:Not at all. Minecraft, especially modded minecraft, is more like an MMO than DayZ/Rust. You have persistence in DayZ and Rust. You grow in wealth in DayZ and Rust. So how is it not at all? Kaysette posted:lol what? have you played minecraft? Have you? Creepers aren't exactly an intense and rewarding enemy. There's no story and no quests. Its a place to build castles and mine mines. Exploring the land is cool, but its all just basic procgen, its not that compelling on its own. Being able to build things with friends is what makes the game fun. They didn't even have the ender dragon for a long time, and he's like the worst boss fight in the history of videogames. If it wasn't for the ability to build treehouses and castles out of legos, the game would get boring very fast. Take wow, remove all quests, remove all skills, remove all classes, remove all raids and dungeons, and now you're approaching minecraft. But... those are the things that make an mmorpg. Ra Ra Rasputin posted:It is literally a Player vs Environment experience. Of course, if you're going to be pedantic and ignoring the context and meaning of what people are trying to communicate.
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2019 18:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 25, 2024 21:55 |
|
|
ah, the people who think mmorpg means something other than a wow/everquest type game with abilities have arrived
|
|
#
?
Sep 14, 2019 18:37
|
|