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Free Market Mambo posted:Wasn't there a Heavens Gate guy posting on SA? I remember someone making a lot of references to Bo and Peep. McDowell or something? Yeah, he had a couple names along those lines. He definitely knew their philosophy inside and out, but it's an open question whether he was actually into that stuff or just attention seeking. Regardless, he was nuttier than squirrel poop and was banned multiple times as a result.
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Sep 10, 2019 20:07
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One More Fat Nerd posted:You also run into the thorny issue that people with NPD or other disruptive personality disorders genuinely did not choose to be like they are. In an organization dedicated to inclusiveness and accessibility, its arguable that efforts should be made to accommodate them. But how do you accommodate someone whose reason they arent comfortable with a group is "everything isnt about me all the time" Or "the other people in the group expect me to experience empathy"? There’s a good two-fold response to such behaviors, whether it’s a narcissist wanting attention or a sociopath lacking compassion or an autistic person missing social cues, which is: First, you’re not responsible for your condition, but you are responsible for your behavior. Second, the consequences of your actions outweigh the intent behind them. It seems like there will forever be bad-faith individuals attempting to “infiltrate” egalitarian spaces by pretending to be the most marginalized identity they can think of and demanding obeisance. Unfortunately, when you have an inexperienced leader or one who is more interested in looking ~woke~ than making progress, they will act like it’s oppressive to set healthy boundaries. Hence why it’s better for newly-educated white liberals to stop starting their own organizations and just put their time and money behind established orgs led by the people most affected. luxury handset posted:Post Your Favorite (or Request): Coldly Compiled Lists › PYF unnerving article or story: The highly publicized mass suicide gets them a bad rep, but Second.
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Sep 10, 2019 20:10
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I've seen this happen. A small community I was part of was basically exploded by someone who was basically a walking, talking Stasi Zersetzung effort. Going through that was among some of the worst I have ever felt. e: oh yeah pls do the name change
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Sep 10, 2019 20:20
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One More Fat Nerd posted:I, uh, have no idea how to fix any of this. I don't think anybody does, really. Narcs and psychos are notorious for being difficult to treat even in the off chance that they seek help in the first place. The other side of it is that most of them will never even do anything that would actually warrant a long jail sentence. Even then they tend to move around a lot and can't keep friends as it's not a matter of if they take advantage of you but when. They will. There's no way around it. Yeah you can in fact make the argument that they never chose to be that way and it's considered what is basically a hardware problem but...ugh. Anybody that's gotten close to a narcissist has found out how utterly destructive they are. Most of them manage to not be criminals but somebody doesn't necessarily have to do something that will land them in jail to gently caress up your life.
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Sep 10, 2019 20:23
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luxury handset posted:Post Your Favorite (or Request): Coldly Compiled Lists › PYF unnerving article or story: The highly publicized mass suicide gets them a bad rep, but It makes a pretty good sequel to the current one too, which came about because I got them and Jonestown confused.
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Sep 10, 2019 20:34
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Busket Posket posted:it’s better for newly-educated white liberals to stop starting their own organizations and just put their time and money behind established orgs led by the people most affected. This. A big part of the problem is that new organizations don't have the rules and structure to deal with actual conflict in a definitive way, so when there's some conflict that can't just be solved by talking it out, they have clearly defined mechanisms to say who wins and who loses. Boring poo poo like parliamentary procedure, rulebooks, charters, and constitutions, if structured properly, will make sure that everyone is heard and that, once it is decided, someone is empowered to enforce that the group has made a decision and is moving on. It's not fun to learn all those little details, but in my experience, those documents are written in blood and if a group has managed to survive multiple leadership and membership turnovers, they're equipped to handle intentional bad actors.
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Sep 10, 2019 21:58
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WaywardWoodwose posted:I was under the impression that Applewhites castration came from internal strife over closeted homosexuality, and isn't advocating castration in a group you have control of a form of sexual abuse? To me it feels like when the cult leader decides it's time for everyone to die, that's not really suicide, and when the leader starts telling people to fly down to Mexico to get their balls chopped off, it's probably not really a suggestion. I am more of your line of thinking here. A cool and good group to hang out with doesn’t pressure people into castration imo.
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Sep 10, 2019 22:33
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I was part of a nice little hippie farm commune until the landowner's age and recent stroke caught up with her. She lost her poo poo and started thinking everyone currently there was against her, that all the men were rapists, trying to "mutiny" etc. She ended up inviting new people onto the property that were shady, like some supposedly-ex-heroin addicts in tents and some guys with warrants (she felt bad they were having trouble finding apartments to rent) and kicked all the original members out. She went from absolutely adoring my fiance to thinking he was going to get violent/rapey with everyone, because he happened to look like her abusive husband from 40 years before and because he's bi. So yeah. Lasted a couple years and would have been great if she didn't end up with dementia from a stroke  Super angering, at first, and now just incredibly sad. I hear the farm is doing okay but drat.E: Something kinda weird-- the original group was like old style hippies and it was really nice. The farm worked great, we got stuff built, and raised, and slaughtered and generally had no problems. It was super chill. The new group she brought in after her symptoms started showing up were the new-age hippies and they were kinda freaky and all had serious issues-- serious drug use, alcoholism (one guy drove drunk, crashed his vehicle and broke both wrists, while the other dude left a bucket of poo poo on his step when he moved out!) and severe emotional issues. I work with people who suffer dementia and the landowner just had this huge switch of personality over the course of a year or so. I've never seen someone change their people preferences so severely, but I'm guessing that's part of how dementia sufferers are so easily scammed and whatnot. Scathach has a new favorite as of 23:04 on Sep 10, 2019 |
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Sep 10, 2019 22:59
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AlbieQuirky posted:I am more of your line of thinking here. A cool and good group to hang out with doesn’t pressure people into castration imo. Knowing nothing about the group, the way its phrased in the list makes no mention that voluntary castration was ever brought up or suggested to the members, only that the leader underwent it.
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Sep 11, 2019 00:08
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Probably a good call for a cult leader
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Sep 11, 2019 00:27
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Iran's 'Blue Girl', who faced jail for going to football games, dies after setting herself on fire outside court
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Sep 11, 2019 00:29
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Telsa Cola posted:Knowing nothing about the group, the way its phrased in the list makes no mention that voluntary castration was ever brought up or suggested to the members, only that the leader underwent it. It was, according to a number of sources. My guess is that the members would have identified it as a voluntary choice, but it was presented by Applewhite as an important step in advancing to the “Next Level,” so hard to say how much of it was free choice and how much of it was pressure within a tightly controlled group.
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Sep 11, 2019 03:22
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AlbieQuirky posted:It was, according to a number of sources. My guess is that the members would have identified it as a voluntary choice, but it was presented by Applewhite as an important step in advancing to the “Next Level,” so hard to say how much of it was free choice and how much of it was pressure within a tightly controlled group. Fair enough, thank you for the info!
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Sep 11, 2019 04:14
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Inceltown posted:Iran's 'Blue Girl', who faced jail for going to football games, dies after setting herself on fire outside court Told u I wuz hardcore  Poor woman. 
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Sep 11, 2019 19:09
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Azathoth posted:This. one of the reasons i stayed with the iww in my city was that they had pretty solid conflict resolution stuff in their bylaws and in a few instances where there was conflict it worked out ok no idea if this is the same across the board for everyone involved with the org or for all branches tho
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Sep 11, 2019 20:28
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atomicgeek posted:This. Jim Jones was a kid with some red flag behaviors long before he had a cult. When Jim Jones is mentioned, I have to inform everyone that as a youth he would dazzle his peers by pinching his dilz in such a way that he could arc his piss stream over a house. Who wouldn't join a cult led by someone who could piss over a house? Edit: This is only the third time I've mentioned Jones challenge pissing in this thread. Untrustable has a new favorite as of 11:18 on Sep 12, 2019 |
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Sep 12, 2019 10:52
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Untrustable posted:When Jim Jones is mentioned, I have to inform everyone that as a youth he would dazzle his peers by pinching his dilz in such a way that he could arc his piss stream over a house. Who wouldn't join a cult led by someone who could piss over a house? To be fair, that would've made a convert out of me when I was eight.
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Sep 12, 2019 14:37
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He was also a bit of a radical before the cult became a proper cult. He was anti-racist and anti-classist as hell, which makes it easier and sadder to understand how people got trapped with him.
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Sep 12, 2019 14:40
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Edgar Allen Ho posted:He was also a bit of a radical before the cult became a proper cult. He was anti-racist and anti-classist as hell, which makes it easier and sadder to understand how people got trapped with him. But looking at how it ended you have to ask; was he actually, or did he just use it to get desperate people?
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Sep 12, 2019 16:03
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Azathoth posted:This. All of this. I've seen so many LGBT+, mental health and other political/support groups taken down by bad actors and a lack of experience in the leadership, with people too afraid of being seen as unwoke to put their foot down and say "regardless of the reasons for your behaviour, it either stops or you are no longer welcome here." It's way, way too easy for someone with a good grasp of the correct language to gain total control and turn the group into their own personal ego supply. And because those groups can be incredibly important especially for younger people who might have been disowned or have a bad relationship with their family since coming out, people are reluctant to make themselves a target even if they see things going wrong. It's an easy trap for people to fall into and tends to snag the people newest to social activism and running groups. It's an extension of the old Geek Social Fallacies in a lot of ways; specifically the parts about accepting other marginalised people purely because they are marginalised regardless of what else they're like, because there's a moral value attached to acceptance that outweighs self preservation. Especially on the internet, where people can just straight up lie about themselves and their lives, but also in real life, where whole communal squats are torn apart because of one shithead who is being enabled by people worried about not being compassionate or understanding enough. This is why the most important self-regulatory device for any LGBT+ group is a minimum of two salty old timers who've seen it all and aren't afraid of losing their whole support network if they bring the hurt on bad actors.
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Sep 12, 2019 16:21
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https://twitter.com/onekade/status/1171875674224844800?s=19
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Sep 12, 2019 18:28
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Werong Bustope posted:It's an easy trap for people to fall into and tends to snag the people newest to social activism and running groups. It's an extension of the old Geek Social Fallacies in a lot of ways; specifically the parts about accepting other marginalised people purely because they are marginalised regardless of what else they're like, because there's a moral value attached to acceptance that outweighs self preservation. Especially on the internet, where people can just straight up lie about themselves and their lives, but also in real life, where whole communal squats are torn apart because of one shithead who is being enabled by people worried about not being compassionate or understanding enough. hence my frequent and loud requests for folks to read the second half of tyranny of structurelessness (really read it, don't just blindly throw out the article title like you assume the article agrees with you, bc lol: 75% of the time you do that bad faith poo poo, it doesn't) and to then take courses in restorative and transformative justice (or at least read the Creative Interventions Toolkit) (all of your leaders should do this, not just the person who gets assigned all the "interpersonal" jobs b/c when they burn out because of you, you're fuuuuuucked) and if you see a trotskyist or someone with a newspaper to sell to you, just turn and run the other way as fast as you can
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Sep 12, 2019 18:43
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oh and don't rely on women, cis women, and non-binary people to do all of your "soft skills" stuff, you men are going to need to learn to not be assholes and how to handle interpersonal work, so, deal with it
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Sep 12, 2019 18:48
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Ahh good to see that we're training for crystal night part II.
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Sep 12, 2019 18:57
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:oh and don't rely on women, cis women, and non-binary people weird phrasing
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Sep 12, 2019 19:15
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Google Maps shows sunken car where missing man’s body was found
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Sep 12, 2019 21:27
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Man imagine being the occupant of that house finding out there's been a body marinating out back for the past 20 years
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Sep 13, 2019 02:48
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LUBE UP YOUR BUTT posted:Man imagine being the occupant of that house finding out there's been a body marinating out back for the past 20 years And then again when realising you've gone swimming above the car.
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Sep 13, 2019 03:03
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if you swim in a catchment pond you're gonna contract something (or, since this is FL, get et by something). I'm trying to work out how he could have lost control and gone into the pond. Coming in from the upper left, maybe? ChickenOfTomorrow has a new favorite as of 04:18 on Sep 13, 2019 |
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Sep 13, 2019 03:14
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Tashilicious posted:But looking at how it ended you have to ask; Jones was a born charlatan, but he was legitimately interested in racial equality. Wikipedia posted:During this time, Jones also helped to racially integrate churches, restaurants, the telephone company, the Indianapolis police department, a theater, an amusement park, and the Indiana University Health Methodist Hospital.[16] Swastikas were painted on the homes of two black families, and Jones walked through the neighborhood comforting local black people and counseling white families not to move.[22] He set up sting operations to catch restaurants refusing to serve black customers[22] and wrote to American Nazi leaders and then passed their responses to the media.[23] He was accidentally placed in the black ward of a hospital after a collapse in 1961, and he refused to be moved; he began to make the beds and empty the bed pans of black patients. Political pressures resulting from Jones' actions caused hospital officials to desegregate the wards.[24] Jones could have bled white people for a whole lot more money than black early in his career. This was not an easy position for him to take in 1950s Indiana and could have easily gotten him killed. In 1961, the Joneses were the first white folks in Indiana to adopt a black baby. Jones did crib a ton from Father Divine, which helped him become a better charlatan.
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Sep 13, 2019 04:06
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ChickenOfTomorrow posted:oh and don't rely on women, cis women, and non-binary people to do all of your "soft skills" stuff, you men are going to need to learn to not be assholes and how to handle interpersonal work, so, deal with it What the gently caress are we even talking about anymore
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Sep 13, 2019 15:00
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Just recently a missing person's case in my city was solved when some people found a car full of corpses off the highway in a very developed and populated area. They must have gone off the highway and into a small but dense clump of bushes and just went unnoticed for so long. The car would have been meters away from a very busy cycle track.
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Sep 13, 2019 16:05
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InediblePenguin posted:weird phrasing There is nothing wrong with that phrasing.
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Sep 13, 2019 16:58
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOfGhIiGXgU Im so sorry its this band ans spike jonez but they did it right full video <--super important https://vimeo.com/36170225 immortalyawn has a new favorite as of 18:34 on Sep 13, 2019 |
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Sep 13, 2019 18:23
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farte
immortalyawn has a new favorite as of 18:43 on Sep 13, 2019 |
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Sep 13, 2019 18:41
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Queen Combat posted:There is nothing wrong with that phrasing. yeah upon further contemplation i realized weird isn't the word; unusual or thought-provoking at most
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Sep 13, 2019 19:11
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Jw why you need to say "women" twice?
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Sep 14, 2019 02:12
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Probably because communication is audience tailored. Really, "women" should mean all women, but sometimes you gotta say "trans women, cis women, and non-binary people" instead of "women and femme-presenting non-binary people." This is PYF on SA, after all.
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Sep 14, 2019 02:30
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