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TheMaestroso posted:It works really well with the red Cavalier - pumps your guys AND gives them haste, so each subsequent creature creates a snowball effect. So play this on turn 4 plus any other spell you might like, then on turn 5 you play the cavalier and rummage your whole hand looking for the other two combo pieces, ilharg and end-raze forerunner. Double pump for well over 20 trampling damage, neat.
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Sep 15, 2019 00:31
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suicidesteve posted:The old rules were a disaster that I've never really understood, but I can tell you that at one point in the game if there was a Lightning Bolt and a Giant Growth targeting the same Grizzly Bear, that Grizzly Bear would not die regardless of the order in which they were cast. I recall being told at one point a real control deck win condition was to City of Brass yourself down to zero and then Mirror Universe your 0 life to your opponent. Other fun ones: getting down to 0 life in pros bloom and since your wincon was Drain Life you would eventually drain your way back up to a positive life total before the end of the phase. There's also Wall of Boom, which I'm not even going to attempt to describe because it goes past making no drat sense so here's a link
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Sep 15, 2019 00:47
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Whoever invented "put the spells in a stack and then resolve them starting with the one on top of the stack" deserves a nobel prize in gaming.
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Sep 15, 2019 00:57
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Elyv posted:There's also Wall of Boom, which I'm not even going to attempt to describe because it goes past making no drat sense so here's a link I actually was not aware that you needed Stasis in the combo; I thought that the magma mine could also be activated in the between-turns step. 
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Sep 15, 2019 01:00
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Owlbear Camus posted:Whoever invented "put the spells in a stack and then resolve them starting with the one on top of the stack" deserves a nobel prize in gaming. As I learned later that comes from lame computer poo poo for lame-os. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stack_(abstract_data_type) And what judge came up with the idea of an "in-between turns" phase?
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Sep 15, 2019 01:08
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Elyv posted:I recall being told at one point a real control deck win condition was to City of Brass yourself down to zero and then Mirror Universe your 0 life to your opponent. Other fun ones: getting down to 0 life in pros bloom and since your wincon was Drain Life you would eventually drain your way back up to a positive life total before the end of the phase. It wasn't even City of Brass, it was mana burn. Every one of your lands was a potential win condition with Mirror Universe back then!
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Sep 15, 2019 01:19
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GimmickMan posted:It wasn't even City of Brass, it was mana burn. Every one of your lands was a potential win condition with Mirror Universe back then! mana burn still only happened at end of phase so the last point needed to come from a City, I think
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Sep 15, 2019 01:38
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Fires seems like it has potential. You could tap some mana dorks, use a free spell to untap all creatures, and then use your lands + mana dorks + floating mana to do something big for your 2nd spell. Or maybe you could play a teferi + any other 4-5 drop, bounce your fires, and then play another 5-drop. Maybe you could mess your opponent up by flashing it on their turn somehow? A couple turns of you playing free 4 or 5 mana cards and your opponent having to tap lands like a goddamn idiot should put you pretty far ahead. What are some other good ways to return a permanent to your hand while advancing your game plan?
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Sep 15, 2019 01:58
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GoutPatrol posted:And what judge came up with the idea of an "in-between turns" phase? Time Vault is a broken rear end magic card and for years they used power level errata and strange rulings to keep it both technically functional and also keep it from breaking the game.
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Sep 15, 2019 01:59
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In-between turns phase is your opponent's endstep, when you play spells.
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Sep 15, 2019 02:09
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Hellsau posted:Time Vault is a broken rear end magic card and for years they used power level errata and strange rulings to keep it both technically functional and also keep it from breaking the game. Funnily enough it now basically has its as-printed functionality (at least, I don't see any cases where it'd be different) and it turns out that it just doesn't break the game, at least not any more so than other cards in the only format where it's legal anyway. Looking up the Alpha wording has made me realize that I want the two individuals depicted in the Alpha art, or at least recognizable representatives of their species/organizations, to come back in some form. That's some pretty drat good art for 1993 Magic.
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Sep 15, 2019 02:14
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JerryLee posted:Funnily enough it now basically has its as-printed functionality (at least, I don't see any cases where it'd be different) and it turns out that it just doesn't break the game, at least not any more so than other cards in the only format where it's legal anyway. The one on the right looks kinda Neurok/Moriok, so maybe something like that will be on New Phyrexia the next time around. Production fucked around with this message at 03:43 on Sep 15, 2019 |
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Sep 15, 2019 03:41
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JerryLee posted:Funnily enough it now basically has its as-printed functionality (at least, I don't see any cases where it'd be different) and it turns out that it just doesn't break the game, at least not any more so than other cards in the only format where it's legal anyway. I mean, it kinda does, in that it’s one of the format-defining win conditions in the highest power format in the game. But that’s fine. That’s what vintage is about.
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Sep 15, 2019 03:53
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Did any successful deck ever use Time Vault “honestly”, by banking turns and spending them later? It’s hard to envision.
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Sep 15, 2019 04:55
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nrook posted:Did any successful deck ever use Time Vault “honestly”, by banking turns and spending them later? It’s hard to envision. I could see a winter orb/stasis kind of shell getting away with it, but when you've frozen the game out with that sort of thing it seems immaterial whether or not you skip a turn or bank a turn to take two in a row when your opponent's turns don't do anything but draw them another card.
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Sep 15, 2019 04:58
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nrook posted:Did any successful deck ever use Time Vault “honestly”, by banking turns and spending them later? It’s hard to envision. People have taken extra turns with it in a fair way, but no deck has ever put it in the deck to be used fairly.
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Sep 15, 2019 05:01
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Time Vault has also had fucktons of errata over the years. The only one I remember offhand is for a while it had functional errata similar to the extra turn text on Magosi, the Waterveil to stop the Voltaic Key shenanigans.
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Sep 15, 2019 05:12
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Is there an effect like The Abyss but more crippling, where it's symmetrical but you could dodge it by banking a turn and make it hit your opponent twice in a row, then bouncing it or something...? IDK doesn't seem like a lot of "fair" timevault ideas that don't rely on you having the game on lock without it.
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Sep 15, 2019 05:32
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Owlbear Camus posted:Is there an effect like The Abyss but more crippling, where it's symmetrical but you could dodge it by banking a turn and make it hit your opponent twice in a row, then bouncing it or something...? IDK doesn't seem like a lot of "fair" timevault ideas that don't rely on you having the game on lock without it. Stasis + Kismet + Chronatog. All their lands, dudes, and fast mana come in tapped, they never untap, and you never take a turn so you don't have to pay any Stasis upkeep. Nothing to do with Time Vault, but if you want to win by loving your opponent over and skipping turns, that is the deck.
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Sep 15, 2019 06:09
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Elyv posted:Time Vault has also had fucktons of errata over the years. The only one I remember offhand is for a while it had functional errata similar to the extra turn text on Magosi, the Waterveil to stop the Voltaic Key shenanigans. And then that version of time vault created another two card win condition because you could keep skipping additional turns to untap Time Vault as many times as you wanted and burn your opponent out with a machine gun time vault thanks to Flame Fusillade. For some reason it was right around this time that Wizards decided that power level erta weren't worth the trouble and abandoned the practice.
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Sep 15, 2019 09:47
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I guess I should post this in the main thread too - I won the weekly MTGO Pauper Challenge last week, and did an interview with my thoughts on the format. https://audioboom.com/posts/7369311-tron-makes-fools-of-us-all-ft-hellsau
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Sep 15, 2019 10:45
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Toshimo posted:Dude I love you but I really need that Duelist scan with the OG trade sharking article like you would not believe. Oh poo poo sorry I knew there was something I was planning to do.
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Sep 15, 2019 12:42
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Hellsau posted:I guess I should post this in the main thread too - I won the weekly MTGO Pauper Challenge last week, and did an interview with my thoughts on the format. I like your sliver.
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Sep 15, 2019 14:02
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jassi007 posted:Stasis + Kismet + Chronatog. All their lands, dudes, and fast mana come in tapped, they never untap, and you never take a turn so you don't have to pay any Stasis upkeep. Nothing to do with Time Vault, but if you want to win by loving your opponent over and skipping turns, that is the deck. Note that this was a tier 1 deck in Mirage block standard, alongside Prosbloom. You could probably do the combo in Modern with Chronatog Totem and some jank shenanigans to loop the turn skip.
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Sep 15, 2019 17:39
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nrook posted:Did any successful deck ever use Time Vault “honestly”, by banking turns and spending them later? It’s hard to envision. The predecessor of vintage Stax decks (discussed early in this article) used Time Vault about as "honestly" as I've ever seen it used. Namely, it played one along with a set of Meditates to force its opponents to sit and think about the choices in life that led them to the point where they were staring at Smokestacks and Tangle Wires across the table from them.
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Sep 15, 2019 18:14
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https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/187535331893/is-cleric-considered-a-spellcaster-type-are warlocks are the black wizards.
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Sep 15, 2019 18:17
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Kurtofan posted:https://markrosewater.tumblr.com/post/187535331893/is-cleric-considered-a-spellcaster-type-are Wow, racist
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Sep 15, 2019 18:22
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Silhouette posted:Note that this was a tier 1 deck in Mirage block standard, alongside Prosbloom. You could probably do the combo in Modern with Chronatog Totem and some jank shenanigans to loop the turn skip. Nah. This was never T1.
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Sep 15, 2019 18:23
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My basic understanding of how the most prominent RPG classes work: Wizards = Burst damage, 1HKO, nuke you from the sky out of nowhere, glass cannon Warlocks = Cripplers, debuffers, poisoners, disease Witches = Curses, gently caress with your RNG, slowly kill you and steal all your stuff Sorcerers = Wizards but less spell diversity offset by more individual spell power, every spell has a drawback Mages = Illusions, summons, creature buffs Clerics = Heal your rear end then go smack with a tiny hammer that usually does nothing and win by attrition Druids = Make mana to summon things stronger than druids
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Sep 15, 2019 18:29
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Tom Gorman posted:My basic understanding of how the most prominent RPG classes work: Wizards are Blue so they do everything the other classes do
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Sep 15, 2019 18:51
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you forgot shamans
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Sep 15, 2019 18:58
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Kurtofan posted:you forgot shamans totems
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Sep 15, 2019 19:23
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Shamans aren't in D&D
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Sep 15, 2019 19:39
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Sampatrick posted:Shamans aren't in D&D They were in 3.5 and 4th edition.
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Sep 15, 2019 19:49
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Sampatrick posted:Shamans aren't in D&D Fortunately mtg isn't D&D either Kurieg posted:They were in 3.5 and 4th edition. and 1st and 2nd
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Sep 15, 2019 19:59
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Would Fires of Invention and Bontu go hand-and-hand? You play Fires, then Bontu, you sack the lands for 4 card draws, play one more spell. If this can stay up, you can cast anything you need. Only downside I see is the crutch of 2 spells only on your turn and if they have Mortify...
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Sep 15, 2019 20:23
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still need the lands for CMC even if you aren't tapping them, though
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Sep 15, 2019 20:26
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Waffleopolis posted:Would Fires of Invention and Bontu go hand-and-hand? You play Fires, then Bontu, you sack the lands for 4 card draws, play one more spell. If this can stay up, you can cast anything you need. Only downside I see is the crutch of 2 spells only on your turn and if they have Mortify... (A) You still need lands (B) You only get one more spell after Fires, so if it's Bontu, that's all. (C) Enchantment destruction exists. So, no, this plan sucks.
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Sep 15, 2019 20:27
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Toshimo posted:(A) You still need lands Worst theorycraft ever.
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Sep 15, 2019 20:51
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Best idea is still red Cavalier, Big Pig, and Lots of Pigs (approx. 30-50)
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Sep 15, 2019 21:10
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