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Ruzihm posted:hold up are you saying it's back??? the cspam one. someone kramered in to stan for landlords for the weekend
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Sep 16, 2019 19:25
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What's some good modern theory about imperialism? I don't mind if it's very situational as long as it expresses the theory behind itself rather than just yelling at a particular country being imperialist.
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Sep 16, 2019 23:09
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Frog Act posted:American Liberalism is defined by a misguided and technocratic faith in all checks and balances Idk if its misguided faith, the checks and balances against democracy and organizing work pretty well
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Sep 16, 2019 23:18
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THS posted:npr is such dogshit lmao. i think it might be one of the single most corrosive things to “well meaning” liberal minds. it’s beyond reproach and you’re crazy if you suggest it’s state department propaganda One of the BBC pieces they were playing on NPR recently on the Hong Kong protests had the posh Brit describing the water cannons that had the water dyed blue so "hopefully the police can find the protesters" or whatever Good ol bootlicking beeb
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Sep 16, 2019 23:19
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well the people who push these statements are being selective. aside from the cpp there are other communists who think differently. obviously in china there's the cpc but the cpi and cpi-m both defend china as socialist. maoists focus on these parties and pretend no other communist voices exist also that cpi (maoist) document has a lot of straight up false allegations in it. kind of funny that maoists rely on it as some kind of killshot
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Sep 17, 2019 01:54
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being a western Maoist is the new version of being a Ron Paul libertarian
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Sep 17, 2019 03:50
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I'm a Maoist Third Worldist
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Sep 17, 2019 03:51
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Plutonis posted:I'm a Maoist Third Worldist 
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Sep 17, 2019 04:01
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Plutonis posted:I'm a Maoist Third Worldist I'm a Moist Thirst Wquenchist
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Sep 17, 2019 04:57
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when you wish for a JDPON labor camp just to break up the monotony
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Sep 17, 2019 05:01
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my very limited experience with self-described MTWs is that it's like a weird, roundabout way to depoliticize yourself and justify "selling out" or just living a conventional, petit-bourgeois lifestyle while not only still calling yourself a communist but in fact positioning that as the most communist thing to do
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Sep 17, 2019 05:03
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plutonis and gradenko are actual third worlders though
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Sep 17, 2019 05:07
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yeah i should clarify -- in the U.S. that is. it's like pointing at all possible political activity and saying "imperialist!" so the only non-imperialist thing to do is -- in theory -- do violent poo poo and form a cell but that will get destroyed, inevitably enough, and the conditions do not exist for that kind of thing. so eh, what can you do? nothing. it's like fishook theory but leading to armchair left-communism
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Sep 17, 2019 05:08
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Yeah, I mean, you can totally believe that everyone else in your country is completely beyond help, beyond enlightenment (as you see it) if you want to, but that doesn't justify throwing your hands up. You could still sabotage things, reduce your country's economic output to help those other countries and accept the cigarette when you're put against the wall. But while I can agree that the majority of the population is kind of a hard sell to communism when they are enjoying the fruits of imperialism and exploitation, it's not impossible, otherwise how did you see the light? If you could, couldn't someone else? Same reason I don't really go in for the conspiracies about fluoride in the water. I drink more water than most people, straight from the tap, and I want to tear down the gates of heaven. It's not the water, people.
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Sep 17, 2019 05:10
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Maybe I should clarify that whenever I say a thing about other leftists I always specifically mean California leftists. It's just like, of course everyone seems beyond radicalizing when you and everyone you interact with is comfortable in their 3000 sq foot house working at daddy's company. But maybe just accept that you're liberal trash instead of telling me to stop wasting my time agitating at my lovely fast food job lol. (this was the same guy who was convinced that vaccines are a conspiracy because corporations produce them)
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Sep 17, 2019 05:28
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it seems to me that most marxist analyses of an individual's role in history + marxist analysis of how a state like the US works (in 2019) pushes one pretty far towards the direction of political fatalism. i'm left thinking that the MTWs are at least partially right in terms of their analysis of capitalism, or at least that they highlight useful things. i definitely agree with the following, tho: accepting some sort of political fatalism but then denouncing people actually doing stuff as being less leftist than oneself is lame as hell, especially if you're gonna call those people inflammatory things like imperialists. like, if you're a MTWist and you accept that the only kind of substantial change can come from third world countries--due to the labor aristocracy, or the inherently imperialist nature of the US state, etc--then that entails: 1) nothing any other first-worlder can conceivably do will alter the situation; so, 2) hectoring them, or even bothering to interact with them as a leftist is totally worthless in the final analysis, if the MTW world view is correct, it requires that anyone who believes it exit marxist discourse and leftist activism, so it's sort of a self-undermining theory
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Sep 17, 2019 09:51
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Everything valid about MTW is already covered by Third Worldist theory.
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Sep 17, 2019 14:06
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Finicums Wake posted:it seems to me that most marxist analyses of an individual's role in history + marxist analysis of how a state like the US works (in 2019) pushes one pretty far towards the direction of political fatalism. i'm left thinking that the MTWs are at least partially right in terms of their analysis of capitalism, or at least that they highlight useful things. yeah i've kind of thought of it as leftist blackpilling for westerners
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Sep 17, 2019 14:23
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Everything valid about MTW is already covered by Third Worldist theory. Serious q: whats the distinction?
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Sep 17, 2019 14:55
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StashAugustine posted:Serious q: whats the distinction? thirs worldism is a real thing if a bit reductive, mtw was created by a dutch dj in the late 2000s to make kickass youtube music videos and is only remembered because it became an lf meme
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Sep 17, 2019 15:06
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it's a good beat. it's easy to dance to
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Sep 17, 2019 15:52
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i just feel like a Marxist ideology that tells you 'nah dont bother trying' is just a complete failure at every level.
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Sep 17, 2019 16:51
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Larry Parrish posted:i just feel like a Marxist ideology that tells you 'nah dont bother trying' is just a complete failure at every level. I don't know, it successfully makes some people feel very self-satisfied
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Sep 17, 2019 18:18
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:thirs worldism is a real thing if a bit reductive, mtw was created by a dutch dj in the late 2000s to make kickass youtube music videos and is only remembered because it became an lf meme Was stuff like this by the same guy, or riffing off the meme? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hq2rOEwnIU
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Sep 17, 2019 18:32
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ATP_Power posted:Was stuff like this by the same guy, or riffing off the meme? love those videos i will always have a soft spot for maoist third worldism and that era of LF where i went from objectivist to communist in two years
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Sep 17, 2019 19:03
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ATP_Power posted:Was stuff like this by the same guy, or riffing off the meme? oh, I remember these videos specifically how every time I watched one of these I felt like my sanity measurably eroded
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Sep 17, 2019 19:03
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StashAugustine posted:Serious q: whats the distinction? Third Worldism grew out of the Cold War after being initially developed by non-aligned or socialist leaders. It's where the Global North vs. Global South distinction comes from. So now because the Second World doesn't exist, Third Worldism exists as a way to categorize how imperial relations between the First & Third Worlds perpetuate. MTW takes Third Worldism and layers on some Maoist peoples' war, where the only solution for global capitalism is a "Joint Dictatorship of the Proletariat of Oppressed Nations" that will rise up like one big Maoist supergroup and overthrow the First World. Then the international relations would be flipped for a while to make reparations until you have global communism. In an abstract way MTW makes sense, but it's really just another form of Ultraleftism. Most third world communist movements have enough problems trying to liberate themselves from neocolonialism, let alone trying to get together some kind of new Maoist international that can somehow wage global peoples' war.
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Sep 17, 2019 19:04
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Sep 17, 2019 19:32
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lmao
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Sep 17, 2019 19:44
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Sep 17, 2019 19:51
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Sep 17, 2019 20:24
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ATP_Power posted:Was stuff like this by the same guy, or riffing off the meme? thats from an lf thread where some dude was trying to " troll " the mtw people and succeeded, iirc they wrote a big long blog post about how he was a capitalist roader
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Sep 17, 2019 21:00
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namesake posted:What's some good modern theory about imperialism? I don't mind if it's very situational as long as it expresses the theory behind itself rather than just yelling at a particular country being imperialist. both of zak copes books
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Sep 17, 2019 21:04
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namesake posted:What's some good modern theory about imperialism? I don't mind if it's very situational as long as it expresses the theory behind itself rather than just yelling at a particular country being imperialist. check out the July / August double issue of Monthly Review, (Volume 71, Number 3)
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Sep 17, 2019 21:07
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seconding Cope, seconding MR (the july-august 2015 issue was also focused on the topic) would also add John Smith's book, which also looks at some of the micro with some concrete supply-chain examples (coffee, iphones, etc)
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Sep 17, 2019 21:18
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Sep 17, 2019 21:55
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you know it's that RCP https://twitter.com/ChrisVHolmstrom/status/1174133054085812224
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Sep 18, 2019 04:02
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people shouldn't stop protesting Beverly Hills imo
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Sep 18, 2019 04:04
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namesake posted:What's some good modern theory about imperialism? I don't mind if it's very situational as long as it expresses the theory behind itself rather than just yelling at a particular country being imperialist. China and the Third World are not "catching up" to the rich countries
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Sep 18, 2019 04:35
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Sep 18, 2019 05:50
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