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Someone in the last star wars gripe thread wrote some really good breakdowns of why the new movies suck on a structural level, for things like having inconsistent logic and stakes within individual scenes. Not gonna go find it, don't remember who posted it, but if you're out there reading this, do it again
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Sep 16, 2019 18:16
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Mooey Cow posted:That sounds like a way better movie. Some kind of art-house type movie about some teenage losers doing nothing, that just happen to live in a giant galactic society with spaceships everywhere, but they basically never leave their own backyards. Not a galactic space movie but teens wandering around messed-up stuff happening that's bigger than them...  Even down to the remote projection / peepshow angle. Dad/Snoke is into nazi memorabilia. Except in this universe Luke isn't a droll shut-in.
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Sep 16, 2019 18:17
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the new movies dont suck anymore than the old movies imo. they just dont have the appeal of nostalgia (for people my age) or the appeal of being the first time youve ever seen space ships blow each other up on a movie screen (for people who were utterly blown away when star wars first came out). if you took the original star wars and it was people with swords on pirate ships instead of people with laserswords on space ships it would just be an yet typical adventure movie, a generic "swashbuckler" Earwicker fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Sep 16, 2019 |
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Sep 16, 2019 18:18
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Kazak posted:Someone in the last star wars gripe thread wrote some really good breakdowns of why the new movies suck on a structural level, for things like having inconsistent logic and stakes within individual scenes. They aren't great about it. They're b movies
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Sep 16, 2019 18:18
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ikanreed posted:They aren't great about it. They're b movies I wish these were low budget movies, they'd be more enjoyable
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Sep 16, 2019 18:19
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Kazak posted:I wish these were low budget movies, they'd be more enjoyable Probably true.
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Sep 16, 2019 18:21
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Do space suits exist in star wars
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Sep 16, 2019 18:22
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Kazak posted:Someone in the last star wars gripe thread wrote some really good breakdowns of why the new movies suck on a structural level, for things like having inconsistent logic and stakes within individual scenes. Ivan Ortega's Last Jedi Re-Edit tries to use editing (and minimal redubbing) to demonstrate how flawed the movie was just on the level of editing. Errbuddy should see Ivan's cut of the opening X-Wing fight and see if you point at the screen on go oh yeah yeah THAT'S what was wrong with the movie. Earwicker posted:the new movies dont suck anymore than the old movies imo. they just dont have the appeal of nostalgia (for people my age) or the appeal of being the first time youve ever seen space ships blow each other up on a movie screen (for people who were utterly blown away when star wars first came out) Given how many people are only in it for nostalgia anymore - especially people who are just told this should be nostalgic for them even though they didn't really experience it themselves - I can understand how you'd get to that conclusion. But just staying within the realm of editing, "How Star Wars Was Saved In The Edit" is all you need to demonstrate that ANH is a Good Movie even just talking about a pure technical level. The prequels - outside of the big action scenes in Phantom - and the postquels can't even come close.
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Sep 16, 2019 18:26
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:Do space suits exist in star wars Did space suits made of leather exist in the old west?
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Sep 16, 2019 18:29
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revwinnebago posted:But just staying within the realm of editing, "How Star Wars Was Saved In The Edit" is all you need to demonstrate that ANH is a Good Movie even just talking about a pure technical level. The prequels - outside of the big action scenes in Phantom - and the postquels can't even come close. if you need to watch another movie about the editing of a movie in order to convince yourself that the movie is good, maybe its not that good. "well edited" maybe but thats not the same thing. i dont really seperate the "pure technical level" from everything else. theres lots of bad art with "technically good" elements in it im not denying that the prequels are worse of course Earwicker fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Sep 16, 2019 |
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Sep 16, 2019 18:29
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Big Beef City posted:I knew that was coming. I feel the same in that we see Rey become a super-powerful force user, hot-shot pilot, and superior light-saber expert in the span of 1-2 days with no previous experience with any of that. She starts bulls-eyeing stormtroopers the first time she holds a blaster, and the first time she sits in the Millennium Falcon's turret she scores 3 kills with one shot. At no point in the SW universe do we ever see anyone else displaying those kinds of abilities, expert of not. I don't know if I would say she's a Mary Sue character, but like you said, she seemed undeserving of the abilities she now has, which in turn cheapens her accomplishments. Like if you re-wrote the original Rocky move to have Stallone's character to be rich, smart, a ladies man, and the best fighter in the world, and then he easily defeats Apollo Creed in the first round without getting a single hit on himself and easily gets the gril, you'd rightly think that movie sucked, because he didn't (to the audience) "earn" that victory. While Rey isn't living the good life on Jaku and doesn't have everything going perfectly for her, her victories feel a little hollow/undeserved because she isn't really failing at any point. With the exception of being captured in TFA and TLJ, she doesn't ever really get bested. Luke on the other hand manages to suffer numerous defeats throughout the OT movies, yet overcomes them himself and as part of a group working together. Rey on the other hand just does everything by herself while most everyone else fucks up to no end. Kazak posted:I wish these were low budget movies, they'd be more enjoyable Probably would be. They'd have to put more emphasis on making a coherent story with likeable/interesting/compelling/believable characters instead of just dropping millions on the CGI-Bukakke we're getting now. Take a movie like Dredd. Low budget, used CGI sparingly and only to improve the sets/action, not to distract, and they had to create a tight, believable story with characters that we actually care about or affect characters we care about. Also they would probably have to be more original than what we are getting now. ANH: "Destroy the Death Star" ESB: "Escape the Empire" ROTJ: "Kill the Emperor" TFA: "Destroy Starkiller Base" TLJ: "Escape the First Order" ROS: "Kill the Emperor . . . Again?"
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Sep 16, 2019 18:44
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Earwicker posted:the new movies dont suck anymore than the old movies imo. 
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Sep 16, 2019 19:18
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i meant the newest ones with rea and kylo and whatnot and also rogue one. to me they seem roughly the same quality as the originals, at least the first two (jedi is a step down imo and when they became more focused on the merchandising) i hated the prequels
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Sep 16, 2019 19:29
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Why would you even need a spacesuit, if you get blown clear off your vessel just force pull yourself back in  Going on snoko
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Sep 16, 2019 19:47
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Now that you mention it, I can't think of anything other than the TIE pilot suits that look remotely like they could function as a space suit that appear in any of the films.
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Sep 16, 2019 19:49
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Why'd you even need a spacesuit when every spaceship blows up in a giant fireball leaving no debris behind.
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Sep 16, 2019 19:52
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Their spacesuits just inflate into giant explosions
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Sep 16, 2019 20:31
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poisonpill posted:Their spacesuits just inflate into giant explosions Haha wow I don't believe it, do you have any examples of this? Preferably hi-res.
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Sep 16, 2019 20:39
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Kazak posted:Haha wow I don't believe it, do you have any examples of this? Preferably hi-res. It's all part of the Bigger Luke theory...
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Sep 16, 2019 20:43
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IMO a bigger problem with Rey than her hypercompetence is her sluggish motivation. For the entire first half of TFA, she has no interest in the plot, she just wants to drop Finn and BB off and go back to her lovely slave labor home to wait for her parents. Then she decides that waiting for her parents isn’t worth it and she’d rather get a job with Han so he can be her dad. Then Kylo abducts her and points out to her that that’s dumb. She doesn’t actually decide to seek out Luke and become a Jedi until the very end of the movie, and she had to be pushed to that by Kylo putting himself forward as a teacher for her. So it takes an entire movie for her to make the same decision that Luke and Anakin both make inside like half an hour. Luke and Anakin are both very passionate and impulsive characters who strongly want things and take steps to make them happen. Rey strongly wants her parents, but she has no idea how to find them, nobody gives her any help, and so she just bumbles around being really good at everything else without really caring about it. There’s a disjoint between her motives and the actions she takes on screen, not helped by the weird hints in TLJ that she’s turning to the dark side that eventually build up to nothing at all.
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Sep 16, 2019 21:08
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Kazak posted:Someone in the last star wars gripe thread wrote some really good breakdowns of why the new movies suck on a structural level, for things like having inconsistent logic and stakes within individual scenes.  Earwicker posted:if you need to watch another movie about the editing of a movie in order to convince yourself that the movie is good, maybe its not that good. Have you actually watched the thing you're discounting here? It's not poo poo like "ah we will hold on Luke's face for 1.5 seconds here instead of 1.7 seconds." It's a direct comparison between the theatrical version and the original cut, and the original cut's editing choices result in a colossal piece of poo poo whereas the theatrical version just fuckin rips. It's worth checking out just to gaze in awe at what a bullet they dodged Earwicker posted:i meant the newest ones with rea and kylo and whatnot and also rogue one. to me they seem roughly the same quality as the originals, at least the first two (jedi is a step down imo and when they became more focused on the merchandising) Nope. The Disney Star Warses are very good at aping the tone of the originals(especially relative to the prequels which often didn't feel like Star Wars movies at all for a lot of people) but they are simply inferior in terms of construction despite how hard everyone involved appears to be trying. Who we should blame for this is a lot harder to answer, because there are a whole bunch of cooks in the kitchen with this poo poo right now
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Sep 16, 2019 21:20
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Not liking cheap cash grab movies is lazy
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Sep 16, 2019 21:23
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TheIncredulousHulk posted:Have you actually watched the thing you're discounting here? no i havent watcherd it. i dont think star wars was a very good movie and im not really interested in watching another movie about editing to try to convince me that it was. could it have been worse? absolutely, no argument there TheIncredulousHulk posted:The Disney Star Warses are very good at aping the tone of the originals(especially relative to the prequels which often didn't feel like Star Wars movies at all for a lot of people) but they are simply inferior in terms of construction when i talk about whether a movie is "good" in my opinion that is based primarily on my personal emotional reaction to the acting, writing and things like aesthetic and tone, not so much things like editing. its subjective and probably not going to apply to other people but thats fine. to me the most recent movies feel more like a cynical cash crab than any of the others but at the same time the actors are all a lot more compelling to watch than just about anyone in the prequels and while the stories arent great (like i said they are about the same level as the originals to me) they aren't as horrible to sit through as the prequel stories were. they do have more of that "star wars feeling" because disney knows how to do nostalgia and lucas did not get it
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Sep 16, 2019 21:32
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 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVNMOKIUrgw
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Sep 16, 2019 21:39
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All those mini-Death Stars lost like Snokes in the rain...
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Sep 16, 2019 21:40
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snoke'em if you got'em
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Sep 16, 2019 21:49
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Love how the new Star Destroyers are such bland, uninteresting pieces of poo poo, that they have to bring back the ISD MKI to get anyone to give a crap, and even then they have to (yet again) lean with all their weight on the nostalgia factor to get people to care.
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Sep 16, 2019 21:50
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Lock, Stock, and Two Snoking Barrels
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Sep 16, 2019 21:50
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*Palpatine finishes turning a wrench, leans back, and wipes the sweat from brow* "Not bad for 20 years work alone here in the force-ghost-resurrection-garage"
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Sep 16, 2019 21:58
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I still don't know how much that is, lol. Is that bigger than the rebel army? Who loving knows.
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Sep 16, 2019 22:01
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Cat Army
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dudeness posted:I still don't know how much that is, lol. Is that bigger than the rebel army? Who loving knows. Is there a resistance army at this point? I thought that at the end of TLJ basically everyone left alive escapes on the Falcon
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Sep 16, 2019 22:03
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dudeness posted:I still don't know how much that is, lol. Is that bigger than the rebel army? Who loving knows. Probably. The Resistance sent Poe to recruit at a couple of college job fairs but that only got them four hundred thousand soldiers and about 30 capital warships. Palpy's "Chrome N' Clone Space Garage" was able to pump out a little more.
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Sep 16, 2019 22:04
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skasion posted:IMO a bigger problem with Rey than her hypercompetence is her sluggish motivation. For the entire first half of TFA, she has no interest in the plot, she just wants to drop Finn and BB off and go back to her lovely slave labor home to wait for her parents. Then she decides that waiting for her parents isn’t worth it and she’d rather get a job with Han so he can be her dad. Then Kylo abducts her and points out to her that that’s dumb. She doesn’t actually decide to seek out Luke and become a Jedi until the very end of the movie, and she had to be pushed to that by Kylo putting himself forward as a teacher for her. I agree with this 100%. I'm gonna drill down specifically on the Force here for a minute, because it's something specific to Star Wars that the new movies just do not seem to get especially WRT Rey. Huge chunks of both Skywalkers' respective characterizations come from the Force, their views on it, and its relationship to their wants and needs. "Does this character learn to master their power" isn't an interesting question by itself if mastering(or failing to master) their power isn't in service of the character actualizing some other aspect of themselves. Neither of them earned Force potential, but they used it to do things. Mastery of the Force allows Luke to enter the larger world he dreams of in his lovely little farm, it gives Anakin a path toward the control over his situation he has never had before(this isn't an endorsement of the prequels or Anakin's execution as a character but the intent here was clear and makes sense). With Rey it's like... why does she even need the Force? How does growing in strength about this power tell you more about who she is? What goals does she have irrespective of having access to it that having access to it could allow her to achieve? I guess one could argue it delivers her to parental figures, but 1) I don't feel like either movie ever really spends the time to show her forming substantive emotional bonds with Han, Luke, or Leia to the point where that matters, and 2) she doesn't really use the Force to actually achieve her relationships with these characters either. Like she doesn't use the Force to find Luke--she's given a map for that. She could have had the exact same relationship with Han(and hell, it might have been more interesting) had she simply just been a really talented mechanic and pilot. Instead, Rey's more or less rendered as more McGuffin than character, as with no self-direction she's just kinda passed back and forth between other characters who do have personal needs Rey is useful for. It's actually pretty hosed up when I think about it. But yeah, I'm not convinced her hypercompetence is necessarily a problem(and to the degree that it is, it's a problem all the new characters have because they're all THE BEST at whatever) so much as it feels excessive because she doesn't have much personal use for it. Like just imagine for a second that Rey also had, I don't know, the ability to fly or some poo poo. It doesn't apply to who she is as a person at all so even if there was some plausible explanation of it presented, it would still seem gratuitous because why the gently caress does Rey need to fly. She has a space ship For the record, it's something of a minority opinion but I think Ridley gives a pretty strong performance with what she has. Like when I first saw TFA I was initially extremely interested in the character just by how she moves around in her intro scenes before she has even one line of dialogue. Sadly they didn't take her anywhere You know who is actually characterized by his relationship to the Force, though? That's right folks, it's Kylo Ren. The way he stands out in these movies isn't just because of Driver's performance. Kylo's the one new character who feels fully formed. Like it's kind of facile to reference but that RLM "describe this character without describing what they look like or what their role in the movie was" from the OG Plinkett review really highlights how flimsy everyone but him is
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Sep 16, 2019 22:15
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loving  that the only well-developed or interesting character in the diverse new Star War is the angry white nazi nerd boy
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Sep 16, 2019 22:52
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Kazak posted:Haha wow I don't believe it, do you have any examples of this? Preferably hi-res. Iirc TIE fighter pilot suits existed because the fighters didn't have life support systems. Also probably makes it easier to cast them as bad guys when you can't see their faces or eyes
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Sep 16, 2019 23:14
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Blistex posted:They'd have to put more emphasis on making a coherent story with likeable/interesting/compelling/believable characters instead of just dropping millions on the CGI-Bukakke we're getting now. Take a movie like Dredd. Low budget, used CGI sparingly and only to improve the sets/action, not to distract, and they had to create a tight, believable story with characters that we actually care about or affect characters we care about. Also they would probably have to be more original than what we are getting now. Did this post time travel from Reddit circa 2012?
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Sep 16, 2019 23:16
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Saint Drogo posted:loving Are you really surprised? Straight white males are the only ones allowed to be flawed anymore. Disney is terrified of offending every other “group,” which leaves their characters flat and uninteresting, because flaws are what make people people.
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Sep 16, 2019 23:19
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Disney should have just ripped off Korra or something
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Sep 16, 2019 23:24
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Colonel Cancer posted:Disney should have just ripped off Korra or something they did
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Sep 16, 2019 23:38
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Colonel Cancer posted:Disney should have just ripped off Korra or something They've been ripping off Star Wars, but it doesn't seem to have helped though.
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Sep 16, 2019 23:39
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