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Your Gay Uncle posted:A Borrowed Man really takes a turn about halfway through doesn’t it? Didn’t see that coming. Is there any word about the supposed sequel? It's being published. When Gene died, editing wasn't done (I'm not sure how much had taken place). They're going to publish what they had without making further changes, as with Wolfe you can't be sure any apparent mistakes aren't intentional.
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Jun 6, 2019 10:09
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Just finished sword of the lictor and probably won't be back until I finish book 4 but I just needed a place to say: what the fuuuuuuck
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Jul 30, 2019 04:15
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StashAugustine posted:Just finished sword of the lictor and probably won't be back until I finish book 4 but I just needed a place to say: what the fuuuuuuck Don't worry, Citadel explains everything and wraps things up rather neatly.
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Jul 31, 2019 05:12
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Snowdog79 posted:Don't worry, Citadel explains everything and wraps things up rather neatly. it almost makes sense Seriously, I did enjoy it and got just enough figured out that I can at least see the general overview of how the story goes. Really enjoyed the series. I do have two questions I didn't see people covering itt that much- one major, one minor: first, what was up with the bit near the end of book 3 where Severian admits to having executed Catherine at his initiation? I didn't pick up on any clues, its not referenced again and he seems to contradict it at later points. did I misread it? The other is I'm interested in BOTNS as political propaganda both in and out of universe. Taken at face value the ideology espoused is pretty straightforward monarchist, but obviously that needs to be filtered through the narration, writing, and charactet motivations; as well as allegorical senses- to a certain extent even in universe. I'm a practicing Catholic but also politically very left so I'm not really sure how much of it is face value
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Jul 31, 2019 21:32
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It's a symbolic execution, he didn't actually kill anyone.
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Jul 31, 2019 23:37
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StashAugustine posted:
Well if you're concerned about Wolfe advocating for monarchy or authoritarianism, that's probably not true. I believe early in his career he was considered libertarian, which he allegedly espouses in Operation Ares, which I have yet to read. Maybe he grew out of that. Either way, in later books he often paints monarchs or authoritarian states in rather negative colors. For example the king in the Wizard Knight is an extremely callous ruler as well as a literal monster. In Home Fires, which I'm rereading for the first time since release, the state is- again- cold and unsympathetic towards the individual. I think at the very least it is fair to say that Wolfe has been consistent throughout his career in the view that whatever authority is out there should be as unobtrusive as possible.
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Aug 1, 2019 00:13
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Autarch means self ruler, take from that what you will.
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Aug 1, 2019 02:35
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I've had this word on the tip of my tongue for weeks now for a written work, that's been used to describe some of Wolfe's writing, which is that they're sort of subliminally Christian or written with the intent to explain or convert but not overtly. C.S. Lewis as well, and whenever I search for it I get garbage results. Anyone know what I'm talking about?
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Aug 2, 2019 06:48
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Allegory, and/or apologetics?
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Aug 2, 2019 07:04
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papa horny michael posted:Allegory, and/or apologetics? Apologetics might be closest, I think.
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Aug 2, 2019 16:39
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Chichevache posted:Well if you're concerned about Wolfe advocating for monarchy or authoritarianism, that's probably not true. I believe early in his career he was considered libertarian, which he allegedly espouses in Operation Ares, which I have yet to read. Maybe he grew out of that. Either way, in later books he often paints monarchs or authoritarian states in rather negative colors. For example the king in the Wizard Knight is an extremely callous ruler as well as a literal monster. In Home Fires, which I'm rereading for the first time since release, the state is- again- cold and unsympathetic towards the individual. I do not think what is shown in the New Sun can be taken as any kind of endorsement. Wolfe is good at separating ought and is in his writings. Additionally, it's very rare for him to lecture directly through his work rather than using more subtle persuasion which can be appreciated even if you don't agree. I've read a lot of his work over the years, and I can think of three instances only where it's clear Wolfe is using a character as a mouthpiece to moralise - in every case it was mercifully brief. Neurosis fucked around with this message at 04:18 on Aug 3, 2019 |
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Aug 3, 2019 04:07
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Neurosis posted:I do not think what is shown in the New Sun can be taken as any kind of endorsement. Wolfe is good at separating ought and is in his writings. Additionally, it's very rare for him to lecture directly through his work rather than using more subtle persuasion which can be appreciated even if you don't agree. I've read a lot of his work over the years, and I can think of three instances only where it's clear Wolfe is using a character as a mouthpiece to moralise - in every case it was mercifully brief. I'm really curious to hear what those three instances are. Would you list them?
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Aug 3, 2019 07:06
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I suspect it's more a testament to Wolfe's prowess as a short story writer than the analyses, but both Alzabo Soup and The Gene Wolfe Literary Podcast happen to be covering short stories, and it's a pleasure to hear recaps of things I completely missed whenever it was that I read them.Chichevache posted:I believe early in his career he was considered libertarian, which he allegedly espouses in Operation Ares, which I have yet to read. I haven't actually read that one, but the Gene Wolfe Literary Podcast covered it well enough that I don't feel I need to. Apparently he was espousing Universal Basic Income, which was a fairly right-leaning stance at the time. Funny, that. sebmojo posted:Autarch means self ruler, take from that what you will. Hoo. There's a loaded statement if I ever heard one. Though I did learn a number of things about the Keeper of the Bees thanks to the above podcasts. Which is somewhat shameful given that used to be one of my Guild Wars characters.
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Aug 4, 2019 04:08
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Hammer Bro. posted:
Yeah, I absolutely loved that. He really comes across as one of those Catholics who is serious about the sanctity of life for everyone. I respect that view.
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Aug 4, 2019 04:44
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Azram Legion posted:I'm really curious to hear what those three instances are. Would you list them? In An Evil Guest there's a bit where it's casually mentioned postpartum abortions were permitted in this future. I'd understand it as some feature Wolfe threw in which wasn't intended to say anything normatively, but it just didn't fit with the rest of the setting or contribute anything such that I found it tough to take it as anything other than a political statement. In one of his short stories (I can't remember the name, I think it's maybe the first one in Endangered Species) there's a guy who takes money in exchange for some kind of weird Most Dangerous Game contest he's in. There's this plot point about how the government views all money as its own, and wants to confiscate everything he has (guns have already been completely taken in by the government, of course). It seemed so much like conservative ultra-paranoia, again, I found it tough to take it as anything other than Wolfe making a political statement. Again, I couldn't see what he was doing with this other than being politically paranoid. The third.. Okay it's two; I had a third example in mind when I wrote the above post but it's slipped my mind.
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Aug 4, 2019 09:46
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Neurosis posted:In An Evil Guest there's a bit where it's casually mentioned postpartum abortions were permitted in this future. I'd understand it as some feature Wolfe threw in which wasn't intended to say anything normatively, but it just didn't fit with the rest of the setting or contribute anything such that I found it tough to take it as anything other than a political statement. In one of his short stories (I can't remember the name, I think it's maybe the first one in Endangered Species) there's a guy who takes money in exchange for some kind of weird Most Dangerous Game contest he's in. There's this plot point about how the government views all money as its own, and wants to confiscate everything he has (guns have already been completely taken in by the government, of course). It seemed so much like conservative ultra-paranoia, again, I found it tough to take it as anything other than Wolfe making a political statement. Again, I couldn't see what he was doing with this other than being politically paranoid. The third.. Okay it's two; I had a third example in mind when I wrote the above post but it's slipped my mind. Well, two interesting examples is infinitely better than zero examples, so thanks for sharing! I always find it difficult to read political or moral ideology in Wolfe's work, because of the many layers of uncertainty in interpreting his work. "The Eyeflash Miracles" certainly seems like an anti-authoritarian, anti-State story, especially as it has a Jesus analogue as its main character. But at the same time, the story is told from the perspective of a blind, apparently both hallucinating and supernaturally gifted boy, and most of his interactions are with two explicitly unstable men. How do we decide which parts of the story to even base our analysis on? That's why I often end up feeling more comfortable describing Wolfe's work as questioning, exploring and probing dominant aspects of human culture, religion, morality and political life, rather than describing it as advocating for particular positions. It is plainly obvious that Wolfe's beliefs influenced his writing greatly - but it is far less obvious to me how, and how he himself felt about it. For instance, Wolfe wrote a whole lot of Jesus analogues and a whole lot about faith, but somehow he never leaves the impression that saviors and salvation are things to wish for, or that divinity is inherently good. Both Severian and Silk seem almost like attempts at subverting his own belief, rather than reaffirm or mission for it. Azram Legion fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Aug 4, 2019 |
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Aug 4, 2019 11:12
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Neurosis posted:In An Evil Guest there's a bit where it's casually mentioned postpartum abortions were permitted in this future. I'd understand it as some feature Wolfe threw in which wasn't intended to say anything normatively, but it just didn't fit with the rest of the setting or contribute anything such that I found it tough to take it as anything other than a political statement. In one of his short stories (I can't remember the name, I think it's maybe the first one in Endangered Species) there's a guy who takes money in exchange for some kind of weird Most Dangerous Game contest he's in. There's this plot point about how the government views all money as its own, and wants to confiscate everything he has (guns have already been completely taken in by the government, of course). It seemed so much like conservative ultra-paranoia, again, I found it tough to take it as anything other than Wolfe making a political statement. Again, I couldn't see what he was doing with this other than being politically paranoid. The third.. Okay it's two; I had a third example in mind when I wrote the above post but it's slipped my mind. He mentions the EU being under Sharia law in Home Fires, but he also presents it without any comment at all. In that case I'm still taking it as worldbuilding until I see something else during this re-read.
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Aug 4, 2019 15:44
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Chichevache posted:He mentions the EU being under Sharia law in Home Fires, but he also presents it without any comment at all. In that case I'm still taking it as worldbuilding until I see something else during this re-read.
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Aug 4, 2019 17:07
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Has anyone ever read the Russian novel Laurus? It tickled something in my mind that I hadn't felt since BotNS, and I want to believe the author has read Wolfe and been influenced by him.
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Aug 5, 2019 08:09
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Azram Legion posted:I'm really curious to hear what those three instances are. Would you list them? More than three surely. I've just been rereading Long Sun and there's a part in Calde when Incus starts talking about Chenille being naked in the tunnels. Wolfe, through Incus, is just stating what (hopefully) everyone knows - if someone is raped it's not their fault. But Wolfe explains this through such a long process that it's obvious he's trying to prove a point outside of the novel. And maybe it isn't so obvious a point for someone of his age / beliefs. life of lemons fucked around with this message at 14:08 on Aug 10, 2019 |
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Aug 10, 2019 14:05
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Neato, 'nother Wolfe podcast just startin' up: https://rereadingwolfe.podbean.com/ This one assumes that everyone has read the books at least once before. I suspect it'll take a little while before they fully find their feet but I enjoyed the first episode and a half.
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Aug 20, 2019 19:18
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Hammer Bro. posted:Neato, 'nother Wolfe podcast just startin' up: https://rereadingwolfe.podbean.com/ Thank god. My biggest complaint about Alzabo Soup is the blind reading technique. It's so pointless.
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Aug 20, 2019 19:22
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Chichevache posted:Thank god. My biggest complaint about Alzabo Soup is the blind reading technique. It's so pointless. I just can't listen to Alzabo Soup. It's two extremely unfunny dudes trying to be funny and failing spectacularly.
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Aug 21, 2019 01:15
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ElGroucho posted:I just can't listen to Alzabo Soup. It's two extremely unfunny dudes trying to be funny and failing spectacularly. You gotta turn your speakers on 😈
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Aug 22, 2019 01:48
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Is there any consensus on what the best of Wolfe's short story collections are?
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Aug 22, 2019 05:36
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The Best of Gene Wolfe is indeed pretty good. Covers his whole career and includes many of his strongest - Fifth Head of Cerberus, Seven American Nights, Eyeflash Miracles, and many more.
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Aug 22, 2019 07:36
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There are a couple it misses. Silhouette and the HORARS of War are both very worthy tales (the latter anticipated Blade Runner much more concisely). But yes it has no dross so is a good place to start
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Aug 22, 2019 12:26
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Best of is definitely great, if a little overwhelming. There's a lot of overlap with Island of Doctor Death which is a little more manageable. Really the main thing is to get a collection with Seven American Nights, which is one of (if not) his best shorts. Most of his 70s short stories are worth reading at least once though. Also yeah Alzabo Soup is not good.
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Aug 22, 2019 15:58
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Neurosis posted:There are a couple it misses. Silhouette and the HORARS of War are both very worthy tales (the latter anticipated Blade Runner much more concisely). But yes it has no dross so is a good place to start Tracking Song too. that one's great. I get that the collection needed to cover his late late stuff but some of his older are way better than "The Tree is My Hat" and some others I can't remember. Alzabo Soup's actual Gene Wolfe analysis is pretty good, they're sharp readers who often have interesting things to say. but yeah could do without the intros and attempts at humor.
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Aug 22, 2019 16:27
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Anyone able to help me track down a Folio Society edition of Book of the New Sun? I wish there were some kind of limited edition book website where users could post their stuff for sale, that isn't something like amazon.
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Sep 17, 2019 08:39
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Basch lives! posted:Anyone able to help me track down a Folio Society edition of Book of the New Sun? I wish there were some kind of limited edition book website where users could post their stuff for sale, that isn't something like amazon. What's your budget? Camelot Books has a consignment on sale, but it's extremely pricey https://camelotbooks.com/books/detail/the-book-of-the-new-sun Also you're thinking of Ebay. There are also some FB groups, like Small Press Limited Book Collectors. Ornamented Death fucked around with this message at 11:27 on Sep 17, 2019 |
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Sep 17, 2019 11:19
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not to be a downer but I don't think you're going to have much luck right now finding a set, unless it's absurdly priced. it came out so recently that I doubt many people will be trying to get rid of it. there do appear to be some on Ebay if you're willing to pay $1500+. your best bet is probably to set up alerts on Ebay, Thriftbooks, and Abebooks and hope you get very lucky. I've had some success finding rare/out of print fantasy stuff at local used bookstores too...nothing on the scale of the Folio New Sun, but you never know. go to bookstores a lot and if you're ever travelling go to bookstores there! particularly good for used sff is Chamblin's Bookmine in Florida, they had lots of Wolfe last time I was there (I got the 70s Ace paperback of Devil in a Forest).
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Sep 17, 2019 15:19
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Ornamented Death posted:What's your budget? Camelot Books has a consignment on sale, but it's extremely pricey Thanks for this, those are the kinds of resources I'm looking for. I know eBay has it occasionally, but sellers have to deal with ebay and paypal fees, so I'm hoping to find independent sellers that would only have to deal with a paypal fee. my bony fealty posted:not to be a downer but I don't think you're going to have much luck right now finding a set, unless it's absurdly priced. it came out so recently that I doubt many people will be trying to get rid of it. The eBay prices are too much, but I am keeping an eye out; Abebooks too. I'd be surprised to find something like this on Thriftbooks, due to cost, but I'll check there regularly too. I was thinking about book stores, and I have some near me in mind (Southern California) I could visit.
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Sep 17, 2019 20:39
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Bit jarring when Silk suddenly goes full libertarian 6 books into his storySolar Cycle novel 11 posted:"But some girls can run faster than the others, so they're bound to win. Don't you see how unfair that must seem to the losers? Mora, there is only one rule in life, and it applies to everyone equally – to me, to you, to all the girls at your palaestra, and even to Fava. It is that each of us is entitled to use everything we are given. Your father was given size and strength, and a good mind. He used them, as he was entitled to, and if anyone is the worse for it, he has no right to complain; your father played by the rule."
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Oct 3, 2019 14:23
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After randomly hearing about Gene Wolfe through an article about his death, I decided to take a chance and buy the compilation Book of the New Sun. It's certainly been interesting so far--I can see why it's been described as a difficult read. I've quickly learned to just accept the archaic words and just infer their meaning from the context, and I do appreciate Severian's unreliable narration. Even though he allegedly has eidetic memory, that doesn't mean everything he remembers, he deems worth telling. That finally really clicked in the botanic garden of sand, where he supposedly spent hours while it only felt like minutes, just a few lines of narration. I'm glad I haven't bounced off just yet, but I have to admit I'm getting a bit bothered by the female characters so far (Thecla, Agia, Dorcas) all but throwing themselves at Severian's feet. From the hints in the narration, it seems as though they play a longer role in the story. Do they get more complex as the story progresses, or am I going to be disappointed?
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Oct 18, 2019 16:59
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Dorcas does in the later books because of her resurrection depression, and Thecla is at some point revealed to have been co-narrator (or gestalt narrator, if you will) of the series since the first page. Agia just stays a comic book villain throughout.
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Oct 18, 2019 17:36
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less laughter posted:Agia just stays a comic book villain throughout. Ahh, that's not surprising. When I stopped reading yesterday, it was being revealed that she wasn't being completely honest to Severian, which isn't exactly surprising given how much she knows and how conveniently she appeared.
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Oct 18, 2019 18:20
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As Agia's original intention is to rob and murder Severian and her subsequent intention is just to murder Severian, her attentions aren't exactly to his advantage. As for her being a comic book villain, I think Wolfe intended her to play the role of something like a Fury, implacably pursuing vengence against Severian throughout the books. When it comes to women, Severian has a tendency to fall into: "And then we screwed and she totally loved it  ", which you really shouldn't take at face value.
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Oct 19, 2019 08:45
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Yeah you shouldn't take it too seriously. He's narrating his exploits from when he was like 16 or 17 and trying to show how cool he was.
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Oct 19, 2019 08:58
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Just finished Devil in a Forest and really enjoyed it. A very quick read and pretty straightforward compared to BotNS. A lot of the wanton cruelty and opportunism you see in BotNS is here but you're following a character who is totally powerless. It paints a pretty bleak picture of peasant life in the sense that everything outside your immediate vicinity is mysterious. I've seen this get billed as a fantasy novel and it really isn't. It's just a fairly simple story about the precarious life of a medieval peasant, and any fantastical elements are somewhere between superstition and reality. It would probably be a good book to recommend to someone who has never read Wolfe before.
MeatwadIsGod fucked around with this message at 06:03 on Oct 23, 2019 |
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Oct 22, 2019 21:17
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