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Serf posted:i don't get the assad thing. dude's not a socialist, right? He defeated ISIS
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Sep 17, 2019 14:21
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Serf posted:i don't get the assad thing. dude's not a socialist, right? imo it's not an unreasonable expectation that "real leftists" wouldn't support regime change in Syria. plus it's just smart not to test The Assad Must Go Curse
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Sep 17, 2019 14:23
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:imo it's not an unreasonable expectation that "real leftists" wouldn't support regime change in Syria. right, but opposing intervention is not the same thing as supporting the current power structure
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Sep 17, 2019 14:26
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Serf posted:right, but opposing intervention is not the same thing as supporting the current power structure In a strictly materialist sense, it is. The government is going to win the war, and being against intervention guarantees their eventual triumph.
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Sep 17, 2019 14:28
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:In a strictly materialist sense, it is. The government is going to win the war, and being against intervention guarantees their eventual triumph. are you reposting wasbappin tweets
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Sep 17, 2019 14:31
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Serf posted:are you reposting wasbappin tweets anybody with an unironic preoccupation with "tankies" is a Son of Wasbappin
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Sep 17, 2019 14:41
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lol every wasbappin meltdown is funnier than the last
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Sep 17, 2019 14:41
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:anybody with an unironic preoccupation with "tankies" is a Son of Wasbappin i mean, no argument there
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Sep 17, 2019 14:43
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:In a strictly materialist sense, it is. The government is going to win the war, and being against intervention guarantees their eventual triumph. I remember War Nerd did an interview with an American journalist (whose name escapes me) who was married to an Alawite woman and he talked about how all his in laws went from being very anti-government liberals to Assad supporters within a few months of the war breaking out once they realized who'd be in power if the rebels won
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Sep 17, 2019 14:45
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:In a strictly materialist sense, it is. The government is going to win the war, and being against intervention guarantees their eventual triumph. Halloween Jack has issued a correction as of 15:11 on Sep 17, 2019 |
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Sep 17, 2019 15:07
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Halloween Jack posted:I just oppose armed US intervention anywhere under any circumstances, for the same reason I oppose unsupervised children playing with guns anywhere under any circumstances. If that makes me a tankie, I'm cool with it. “armed intervention” is an extremely loaded term. we were already intervening by supplying weapons and money to the rebels. not to mention being the YPG’s Air Force when it came to fighting ISIS.
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Sep 17, 2019 15:18
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this is why i am calling for the immediate abandonment of all military operations and bases outside of the continental united states and the confinement of all military personnel and equipment to the lower 48
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Sep 17, 2019 15:25
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Yes. Grandpa's run over too many people and it's long past time we took the car keys away.
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Sep 17, 2019 15:26
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Serf posted:this is why i am calling for the immediate abandonment of all military operations and bases outside of the continental united states and the confinement of all military personnel and equipment to the lower 48 the host countries explore the abandoned US bases and find out they're just full of depleted uranium and some chemical we used to wash Humvees has leached into the ground and nothing can be grown there for a hundred years.
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Sep 17, 2019 15:34
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Serf posted:this is why i am calling for the immediate abandonment of all military operations and bases outside of the continental united states and the confinement of all military personnel and equipment to the lower 48 banish all MPs and non-prior enlisted commissioned officers to alaska
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Sep 17, 2019 15:40
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Very on topic, Rev Left just put out an episode about Rojava that opens with 13 solid minutes of disclaimers on why you shouldn't be mad about the episode. It's like a dollop intro for leftist sectarians
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Sep 17, 2019 15:57
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Marxalot posted:Not to interrupt tankchat but, lmao Hell yeah, give him loads of poo poo.
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Sep 17, 2019 16:10
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I don't understand why West Wing Thing has a 3 minute long ending theme song
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Sep 17, 2019 17:15
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Gripweed posted:I don't understand why West Wing Thing has a 3 minute long ending theme song
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Sep 17, 2019 17:29
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Goon Danton posted:Very on topic, Rev Left just put out an episode about Rojava that opens with 13 solid minutes of disclaimers on why you shouldn't be mad about the episode. It's like a dollop intro for leftist sectarians had never listened to this pod before but i'm listening to this ep now and goddamn this is super interesting.
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Sep 17, 2019 17:33
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Rev Left is good
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Sep 17, 2019 18:04
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wasn't revleft a lovely politics forum like fifteen years ago
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Sep 17, 2019 19:06
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I like revleft's intro music.
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Sep 17, 2019 19:12
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Every time a Rev Left episode starts with a giant disclaimer, I strap in for a wild ride on the rollercoaster of credibility, and I've never been disappointed.
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Sep 17, 2019 19:41
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Terrorist Fistbump posted:Every time a Rev Left episode starts with a giant disclaimer, I strap in for a wild ride on the rollercoaster of credibility, and I've never been disappointed. Yeah pretty much. The guy he had on this episode had a habit of pivoting questions about Rojava to talk about bad poo poo other groups did, but he did correct Breht when he got things mixed up and said the ypg disarmed and abandoned that one Assyrian village. The woman he had on didn't seem to give a gently caress about any of that and send more directly concerned with the left's perception of middle Eastern Christian groups. Also I like that they always have full songs at the end of each episode, it's a nice little touch.
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Sep 17, 2019 20:04
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if a rev left episode is more than 1:10:00 long i delete it and move on
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Sep 17, 2019 20:10
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I enjoyed the history lesson in the first hour, the guests were right to point out it's often overlooked in accounts of the region. My big problem with this episode is that, in retrospect, the big controversial claim at the core of it, that democratic confederalism and women's rights are a smokescreen for a violent Kurdish nationalism, was never fully worked through or substantiated despite the two hour runtime. There were a bunch of secondary discussions that kept getting in the way. I don't care about the ignorant things posted online by nobodies about Christianity outside Europe. I'm open to hearing criticism of Rojava but drat put some effort in to present the case clearly. Rev Left has some great episodes in the back catalog, but the guy really has to be more selective when it comes to guests. I guess that's kind of at odds with presenting movements that are so marginal they don't get coverage elsewhere, but after the Stalin episode, I don't have patience for bad guests anymore.
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Sep 17, 2019 20:53
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Serf posted:i don't get the assad thing. dude's not a socialist, right? let me quote marxist theoretician i. jugashvilli: The same must be said of the revolutionary character of national movements in general. The unquestionably revolutionary character of the vast majority of national movements is as relative and peculiar as is the possible revolutionary character of certain particular national movements. The revolutionary character of a national movement under the conditions of imperialist oppression does not necessarily presuppose the existence of proletarian elements in the movement, the existence of a revolutionary or a republican programme of the movement, the existence of a democratic basis of the movement. The struggle that the Emir of Afghanistan is waging for the independence of Afghanistan is objectively a revolutionary struggle, despite the monarchist views of the Emir and his associates, for it weakens, disintegrates and undermines imperialism; whereas the struggle waged by such “desperate” democrats and “Socialists,” “revolutionaries” and republicans as, for example, Kerensky and Tsereteli, Renaudel and Scheidemann, Chernov and Dan, Henderson and Clynes, during the imperialist war was a reactionary struggle, for its results was the embellishment, the strengthening, the victory, of imperialism. For the same reasons, the struggle that the Egyptians merchants and bourgeois intellectuals are waging for the independence of Egypt is objectively a revolutionary struggle, despite the bourgeois origin and bourgeois title of the leaders of Egyptian national movement, despite the fact that they are opposed to socialism; whereas the struggle that the British “Labour” Government is waging to preserve Egypt’s dependent position is for the same reason a reactionary struggle, despite the proletarian origin and the proletarian title of the members of the government, despite the fact that they are “for” socialism. There is no need to mention the national movement in other, larger, colonial and dependent countries, such as India and China, every step of which along the road to liberation, even if it runs counter to the demands of formal democracy, is a steam-hammer blow at imperialism, i.e., is undoubtedly a revolutionary step. Lenin was right in saying that the national movement of the oppressed countries should be appraised not from the point of view of formal democracy, but from the point of view of the actual results, as shown by the general balance sheet of the struggle against imperialism, that is to say, “not in isolation, but on a world scale”
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Sep 17, 2019 21:43
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Serf posted:if a rev left episode is more than 1:10:00 long i delete it and move on lol i'm guessing you missed out on the stalin episode my secret is i listen to everything around 3x speed e: Terrorist Fistbump posted:My big problem with this episode is that, in retrospect, the big controversial claim at the core of it,[ ... ] was never fully worked through or substantiated despite the two hour runtime. hello fellow stalin-episode listener
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Sep 18, 2019 02:15
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Doc Hawkins posted:lol i'm guessing you missed out on the stalin episode i didn't go that far back. i tried listening to the hong kong protests episode and 1:30:00 in i still had no idea what the gently caress was going on so i turned it off
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Sep 18, 2019 02:23
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Serf posted:i didn't go that far back. i tried listening to the hong kong protests episode and 1:30:00 in i still had no idea what the gently caress was going on so i turned it off good choices all around, i hope to one day learn from your example
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Sep 18, 2019 02:26
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the problematic aspect of Rojava is that it's only survived because of protection by NATO air forces. It has that protection because it allows the US and NATO to have another foothold in the middle east and it divides one of the most productive regions of Syria from the besieged central government this compromise was understandable when the YPG was holding off a genocidal ISIS advance, but its been years since that was a reality. the desire to paint Rojava as some sort of settler colonial project is weird. it seems to me that you maybe can make a case for Kurdish chauvinism, but if you want to criticize Rojava there's more than enough there without getting into any of that
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Sep 18, 2019 02:47
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Ferrinus posted:Lenin was right in saying that the national movement of the oppressed countries should be appraised not from the point of view of formal democracy, but from the point of view of the actual results, as shown by the general balance sheet of the struggle against imperialism, that is to say, “not in isolation, but on a world scale”
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Sep 18, 2019 02:57
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i like to think that i'm open to hearing what is bad about rojava, but i'd no more criticize kurdish people for taking aid from the US than i would cuban people for taking it from the USSR if other socialist states are given any credit for their lofty principles, then they absolutely should too
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Sep 18, 2019 03:18
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Halloween Jack posted:I think the problem most people understandably have with this viewpoint is that it's relatively easy to take this big-picture viewpoint with stuff that happened in the distant past, and much less so in the present day where a "blow against imperialism" may come packaged with, say, religious persecution. So? How hard it is to accept is completely besides the point. No amount of liberal moralising justifies imperialism. Nobody says you have to like the Islamic Republic of Iran, but if you accept that they're an illegitimate government and "have to go" then you're doing the bidding of imperial interests that only want a more pliant government in its place. The actually existing world powers aren't interested in spreading worldwide gangster computer god communism.
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Sep 18, 2019 03:26
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 how do you do fellow leftists. we absolutely need to do something about these morally abhorrent states: - cuba - venezuela - syria - china - iran - russia why these specific ones you ask? great question.
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Sep 18, 2019 04:07
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I listened to the latest Radio War Nerd about the Pueto Rican independence movement and I hope someone destroys this stupid loving devil country
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Sep 18, 2019 04:15
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AnEdgelord posted:I listened to the latest Radio War Nerd about the Pueto Rican independence movement and I hope someone destroys this stupid loving devil country Practically all of America's overseas colonial history is completely forgotten, and it's all mortifying.
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Sep 18, 2019 04:18
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AnEdgelord posted:I listened to the latest Radio War Nerd about the Pueto Rican independence movement and I hope someone destroys this stupid loving devil country I haven't listened to this episode but  regardless
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Sep 18, 2019 04:19
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Practically all of America's overseas colonial history is completely forgotten, and it's all mortifying. It really is amazing how much the narrative of "America is a positive actor on the world stage" relies on deliberate suppression of the historical record or even ongoing atrocities.
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Sep 18, 2019 04:22
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