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Oh, that reminds me. gently caress gantries. You think "hey, it lets me build it so that I could have my dupes jump from the tip to another ladder on the other side of the rocket, let's do it that way!" And then your rocket snaps the gantry anyway because it is one block too close even when it's disengaged. Rocketry in ONI is a clusterfuck of weird decisions and ambiguity.
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Sep 17, 2019 13:54
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Sage Grimm posted:ONI is a clusterfuck of weird decisions and ambiguity. 
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Sep 17, 2019 14:26
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The whole steam then petro rocket is weird to me. Making and handling steam for me atleast is 10x harder than making and handling petro yet I have to have a few steam launches before i can unlock petro
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Sep 17, 2019 20:27
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Beccara posted:The whole steam then petro rocket is weird to me. Making and handling steam for me atleast is 10x harder than making and handling petro yet I have to have a few steam launches before i can unlock petro ... put a bunker tile cube somewhere regolith can hit it, fill it with water, have a pump inside?
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Sep 17, 2019 22:32
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endlessmonotony posted:... put a bunker tile cube somewhere regolith can hit it, fill it with water, have a pump inside? My steam box is 2 tall 2 wide room surrounded by diamond tiles in space. The room itself needs tempshift plates, enough water to fuel space exploration, and a steel gas pump. I use a dispenser to sweep/drop hot regolith on top of the diamond tiles which will boil the water. I think most people who have done rocketry have probably used regolith to make the steam.
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Sep 18, 2019 01:20
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I decided to aquatune the contents of a salt water geyser down to ~20C since it was near the top of the asteroid for my steam rockets. What did I do with the result? It sat around for a while because I didn't need more water. Then it became a quick way to cool down the 9 Electrolyzers/Pumps on the surface for the other salt water geyser on the complete opposite side that I was desalinating for liquidizing hydrogen/oxygen! 
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Sep 18, 2019 01:28
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I used a metal foundry with oil coolant to boil water in a room then used a pump to pump it into my rocket. Metal foundry was used to make all the steel I needed to build a rocket.
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Sep 18, 2019 02:23
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Welp, paused yesterday evening on cycle 620ish to go outside and smoke, then wound up going to bed with the computer on and the game paused. I don't like to do that but will occasionally from laziness. Woke up, got kids ready and sent to school, then sat down to put the finishing touches on the installation of the containment/pump room for my second natural gas geyser. Turns out I did not pause, it's cycle 738, 34/35 of my dupes are dead, so are the 8 ranches of various Hatch mutations, coal and petroleum are exhausted, and the colony has dropped from 1.3 million kcal of food available to 4,200 kcal of meal lice. There's one dupe still left, research tree is done except for space stuff (I had just tunneled up to visual range of the surface when I found the extra natty g pocket elsewhere and went to focus on that since petroleum power was using fuel slightly faster than I was making it), gas and fluid handling systems are established, and other than the petro generators being destroyed after having been fed crude until they died power infrastructure is in place. I kiiiiind of want to try salvaging it from that point. Kind of. There is a non-autosave file, as well, but it is from the night before last and wound wind up with the colony needing to repeat a good 6-10 play hours of progress. I could also opt to restart on the seed; it would let me beeline to the two natural gas pockets, for one, which are both near small single-reservoir oil biomes; could break into steel and plastic by cycle 200 instead of 400. Mostly I'm just frustrated at being foolish enough to have done this.
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Sep 18, 2019 16:51
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I found a hydrogen vent on my map yesterday and it has blown my mind in terms of power output and future rocket fuel. Only problem is the output is 300 Celsius so you have to wear a suit anywhere near it. Also found 3 cool steam vents and a salt water geyser, so my water, oxygen, and power needs are all met. Now I just need to figure out meaningful long term cooling for my base and I'm set to move onto rockets.
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Sep 18, 2019 18:19
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It's not too hard to set up a 3-room turbine/aquatuner/heat exchanger setup. Just try to set it up before you need it, because it takes a good while to cool down a room packed with polluted water or whatever medium you want to use.
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Sep 18, 2019 19:01
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I need to figure out how to make steel first. I have lime from egg shells, iron but I'm not sure what machine makes it. I guess probably the more heat expensive "automated" smelter? I haven't used it before because of the heat and such.
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Sep 18, 2019 19:17
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The smelter does, you just need to feed some liquid into it which will come out hotter than it went in. Be careful not to let whatever coolant you use get so hot it boils in the pipes.
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Sep 18, 2019 19:42
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The Failures of Pisswater Gulch WALL OF TEXT INCOMING I bought this game after launch, and have devoured this thread over a couple of weeks after rapidly becoming TOTALLY OBSESSED. Seriously, I'm pretty sure my wife thinks I'm having an affair with little computer people. Anyway, there's loads of great builds in this thread, but I thought I'd show off some of my failures in a colony originally named The Super Duper Colony but since renamed the above as that might prove instructive to new players too - plus I have a whole lot more failures than successes. Firstly, my attempt to upgrade the heat coming out of a cool steam geyser in order to power a steam turbine:  Or, as it turned out, the Sauna Room. My intent here was to run the condensed water from the geyser through an aqua tuner, output chilled water to my water tank and use the additional heat the tuner produced to upgrade the 120c steam to 125c and power the turbine. It would produce 95c water which would go back through the tuner loop and to the tank. What I didn't do was any maths, which would've revealed that (a) I would never produce enough heat to get the turbine going, (b) that once I'd used up the existing water I'd have converted the rest to steam that wasn't hot enough to power the turbine and was therefore irrecoverable, and (c) using liquid water to cool steam is just asking for burst pipes. What I should've done is put the tuner and the turbine in a separate enclosure, used oil as the working fluid and focused on cooling the steam and then the condensed water. I’ll do this once I run out of other water supplies, or when I can no longer bear to look at it. Speaking of cooling, this was my post-sieve tank for chilling hot ex-pwater.  Having read this thread, I was terrified of heat buildup, and built a colossal cooling system stretching across most of the map, taking in all the AETNs and every Wheezewort. As a result of me doing this and not adding valves, much of my base froze while I was looking at another project. I added valves. Lots of valves:  My second attempt at harnessing a steam geyser was more sophisticated and involved a hot water geyser outfitting at 500c. I stole the port covering system I'd seen on YouTube for maximising output from a very hot source, and rigged a cooling loop to kick in when the steam fell to 125c.  I used pwater in the cooling loop, as that was what I'd used on the main circuit for my base, and as you can see above, had worked really really well. I forgot that pwater boils below 125c. I switched it on, extracted some energy really efficiently, then all the pipes burst and all of the kit overheated. I will start this back up again soon, now I have easy access to vast quantities of petroleum. This is due to my oil boiler, which has taken me hours of real-world time to get right. I decided I wanted to build one because oil refineries are really inefficient, rely on dupes and are just plain annoying. Below is one of the many intermediate versions I out together.  Let me walk you through the problem solving process. I based this off a half-remembered design posted in this thread a while back. My first few versions kept encountering problems with crude oil backing up at the heating plate, spilling over the lip and requiring me to stop the boiler to clean up. I couldn't figure out why this was happening: the boiler would go from instantly converting oil to petroleum to backing up for no particular reason. So, learning my lesson, I decided to do the maths on the heat conducted from the steel plate into the oil. It didn't make sense. The amount of heat coming from the steel plate wasn't enough to instantly convert oil to petroleum, but I'd seen that happen. It was then I realised that the plate wasn't the only thing heating up the oil: the previously made petroleum on top was also heating the oil up, and transferring much more heat on account of being liquid. Effectively, the chamber was charging with heat, discharging petroleum, and then recharging. However, I was adding oil at a rate faster than it could charge. I considered various complex arrays of temperature sensors to control the rate at which the oil was added, then realised I was overthinking it and added a Not Crude Oil sensor with a 3 second buffer, ensuring that the flow of oil would be continuous until the chamber needed to recharge, after which it would stop until petroleum was made again. This solved, I turned to the cooling system. It's entirely possible that I didn't need to cool the petroleum, but I wanted to ensure I wasn't adding much additional heat to my main base and, to be honest, had so much trouble getting it to work that I was determined to make it happen. I set up a standard two turbine/three aquatuner cooler with a hydrogen cooling loop for the generators. Rather than use pwater for which such a device is sized, I thought I'd learn my lesson and use oil as the working fluid. It had a much lower heat capacity than pwater, but given that the heat coming into the system from the steel plate was about 44kDTU and the heat deleted by an oil loop through the turbine/tuner combo was in the high hundreds of thousands, I thought it would be fine. It was not. Everything overheated and broke really quickly. I tried again, this time using pwater in the tuners going to a crude oil heat exchanger that transferred the heat to a cooling petroleum loop. It still didn’t do the trick. For the life of me, I couldn’t figure out why I couldn’t remove enough heat to make it work. Then I realised two things: Firstly, my cooling loop was going through the exit passages for the petroleum – where the crude oil also came in to receive some initial warmth. This meant I was spending some cooling on something to which I immediately added heat. This was silly, but by itself not enough to throw the system off. Secondly, however, because I needed to reduce the overall temperature below 100C in order for the the hydrogen cooling loop to actually keep the generators running, I also needed to remove some of the latent heat that was in the crude oil I’d been pumping in at about 150C. This massively increased the heat requirement, and so the finished article is this:  It may output only slightly more energy than it consumes, but it works dammit, and that makes it worthwhile. TL;DR - do the math, it'll save you time.
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Sep 18, 2019 20:01
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I also ran into issues with my petroleum boiler, but my simple solution was to make a cold box next to the final petroleum product so that heat would rapidly transfer into it, and on the other side was a steam turbine to delete heat. Because it's sealed, even if it heats up enough to flash into steam, it has nowhere to go and won't damage anything on it's own, so it is effectively a thermal heat sink.
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Sep 19, 2019 02:39
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The big dig LonsomeSon posted:Turns out I did not pause This is remarkably ironic and bad timing for this considering your post but I'm leaving the above dig on overnight to see what happens. I did it during work today but I didn't plan for my jetpack dupes somehow submerging themselves in pools of water like idiots, gonna see if I can pull it off with some planning for that this time. I've gotten to the point I can walk away from the game and so long as they don't die to dumb pathing like the above it just runs sustainably indefinitely. Mazz fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Sep 19, 2019 |
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Sep 19, 2019 04:12
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What kind of fps are you getting endgame? I get around 14 at 3x speed once I've dug out the map. I'm spending most of my time now in cycle ~1400 trying to make performance improvements like cleaning everything up and bricking up pathways so dupes have limited pathfinding, while my rockets go collect space materials for... something. I have no idea what to use insulation or thermium for once you have your hands on them, it feels like they're so lategame that all the vents and volcanoes are solved or unnecessary once you have them and they're not necessary for rockets.
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Sep 19, 2019 05:25
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Joiny posted:What kind of fps are you getting endgame? I get around 14 at 3x speed once I've dug out the map. I'm spending most of my time now in cycle ~1400 trying to make performance improvements like cleaning everything up and bricking up pathways so dupes have limited pathfinding, while my rockets go collect space materials for... something. They are only super lategame if you drag you feet on rockets. I like thermium for auto miners in space at least .
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Sep 19, 2019 06:07
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Joiny posted:What kind of fps are you getting endgame? I get around 14 at 3x speed once I've dug out the map. I'm spending most of my time now in cycle ~1400 trying to make performance improvements like cleaning everything up and bricking up pathways so dupes have limited pathfinding, while my rockets go collect space materials for... something. It can tank pretty hard at times; for me a lot of it is the jetpack pathing unfortunately. My plan is to set up pumps to clear out each big strip mined area to reduce the gas interactions along with sweeping the dropped poo poo into conveyor streams back to my storage. I only have about 2 kilotons of storage for each mineral though and I'm on track to blow right past that, so I'm going to have infinite item stacks hanging out for a little while. One big thing is the game seems to have a a very minor memory leak as you go on in playtime, it can help to close the game and restart once in a while. Especially if you try to load a save a long ways in. Using that weird little Xbox game bar Windows 10 has, my GPU or CPU never seem to rise above 50% utilization but my RAM will climb up to 80-90%, FWIW I have a Ryzen 2600, 2070 and 16 gigs of DDR4. Here's a little mp4 of 30 seconds of gameplay, got downsized a lot but you can see dupe movement enough to get a feel for FPS. https://i.imgur.com/o3oveEG.mp4 Also my experiment was again a failure at ~100 days in, dupes just find the most impressive ways to get themselves killed. You were wearing a loving jetpack Burt, how did you get yourself trapped on top of a steam geyser. Mazz fucked around with this message at 13:05 on Sep 19, 2019 |
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Sep 19, 2019 11:10
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Thermium for autominers could work, though I usually have them all set up with steel and a cooling loop by that point. I guess if you were using regolith cooling then thermium would be better than steel. As far as performance goes, it looks fairly similar. For reference, I have an i5, gtx 970, 32 gigs of ram. I've noticed the same about memory leaks, usually I go for 2 or 3 hours and give it a restart to recoup about 4-7fps on 3x speed which is a fair amount when it drags down to 7-10fps. At 1x speed everything is gravy at 30+ fps but man it would be nice to maintain that at 3x speed.
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Sep 19, 2019 14:26
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Old i7 3770k, 16GB, GTX 1070 and Sata SSD started chugging at 3x when the doomed colony hit late mid- early late stage. Currently running i9 9900k, 32GB, GTX 1070 and NVMe SSDs and the game simply does not slow down.
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Sep 19, 2019 16:32
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Does dumping every solid into a single tile storage help with FPS?
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Sep 19, 2019 17:08
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beyonder posted:Old i7 3770k, 16GB, GTX 1070 and Sata SSD started chugging at 3x when the doomed colony hit late mid- early late stage. You're running the Intel/NVidia version of my build, which I put together specifically for this stupid game (GPU is in anticipation for another FO / ES game, hopefully)
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Sep 19, 2019 17:50
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Joiny posted:What kind of fps are you getting endgame? I get around 14 at 3x speed once I've dug out the map. I'm spending most of my time now in cycle ~1400 trying to make performance improvements like cleaning everything up and bricking up pathways so dupes have limited pathfinding, while my rockets go collect space materials for... something. Insulation is expensive enough that there is only one thing to even consider it for: insulated pipes for making liquid hydrogen. Thermium can be used for some high temperature things not otherwise achievable, such as space based machines that actually use falling regolilth as their coolant or aquatuners that heat past the 375C limit of steel.
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Sep 19, 2019 23:47
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Smiling Demon posted:Insulation is expensive enough that there is only one thing to even consider it for: insulated pipes for making liquid hydrogen. Just use regular pipes with Insulation, it's got so little heat transfer naturally that quadrupling the materials for actual insulated piping is overkill.
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Sep 20, 2019 00:11
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After some cleaning (everything in one tile stacking) and bricking the bottom of the map up I've improved my fps significantly. Not sure which part made everything run smoother but I'm getting 20+ fps at 3x speed now. Was even able to add 8 more dupes for a total of 32.
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Sep 20, 2019 01:55
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Is there a good way to remodel and move portions of my base? I want to make it more compact because I'm tired of seeing the "long commutes" warning.
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Sep 20, 2019 02:46
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Azuth0667 posted:Is there a good way to remodel and move portions of my base? I want to make it more compact because I'm tired of seeing the "long commutes" warning. I don't know about a "good" way; everything needs to be deconstructed, reconstructed, and then swept. I had vague plans to construct a brand-new, swanky residential section built around shortening travel times and maximizing decor bonuses while minimizing the volume which needs oxygenation and climate control, on the game I left unpaused overnight. In terms of fitting fluid and gas handling infrastructure for it, going to a place with zero pipes or ducts instead of trying to thread them through existing chaos makes sense to me. I was planning on deconstructing the contents of the old rooms but leaving the structure intact; a single or small number of suit-equipped exits would make everywhere not in the new living area a suit-only zone with no habitability reason to juggle temperatures and gases. The Mazz-es of the thread report very good results if this approach can be managed.
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Sep 20, 2019 03:58
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You cant get rid of the commutes thing, it’s >40% of time spent travelling which is drat near unavoidable. Just get the mod that removes the long commutes message.
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Sep 20, 2019 04:05
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I get that message even though there's one exit from my base through a travel tube that can take dupes wherever they want to go on the map. It's still not enough. 
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Sep 20, 2019 09:54
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Tenebrais posted:Just use regular pipes with Insulation, it's got so little heat transfer naturally that quadrupling the materials for actual insulated piping is overkill. This actually does not work at all. Regular pipes use average rather than lowest thermal conductivity, meaning there will be lots of heat exchange.
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Sep 20, 2019 11:45
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Yeah, I'm pretty sure Insulated Pipes made of Ceramic have lower heat transfer than regular pipes made of space-age Insulation. Like, orders of magnitude lower. For liquid hydrogen, build everything in space, use radiant pipes in free atmosphere if you're just bulk-transferring fluids around, use insulated ceramic pipes through insulated ceramic tiles, and insulated Insulation when you're near the rocket exhaust. Radiant pipes simply because they'll change temperature quicker to match the contents, and by space you've got a lot of it. With this you can usually leave the liquid sitting idle in the pipes without incurring damage later.
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Sep 20, 2019 14:05
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Did you know petroleum will never overpressurize a liquid vent? Because I do now!
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Sep 22, 2019 16:23
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nrook posted:Did you know petroleum will never overpressurize a liquid vent? If the room is sealed it will, or if it's a sufficiently tall chamber (26 tiles for Petroleum should do it, +10kg on the bottom tile for every filled tile above it).
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Sep 22, 2019 16:34
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Why do power transformers sometimes stay at zero charge? Like I'll have 4 in a row all connected to the high watt cable and bringing energy to four different circuits, transformers 1 2 and 4 will be full charge and number 3 will be at zero. E: no automation on them. canepazzo fucked around with this message at 20:53 on Sep 22, 2019 |
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Sep 22, 2019 20:49
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canepazzo posted:Why do power transformers sometimes stay at zero charge? Like I'll have 4 in a row all connected to the high watt cable and bringing energy to four different circuits, transformers 1 2 and 4 will be full charge and number 3 will be at zero. If it's actually connected to the heavy watt, then you may need to save and reload so the game will recheck that it's in position to make the connection.
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Sep 23, 2019 01:17
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Sanguinaire posted:If it's actually connected to the heavy watt, then you may need to save and reload so the game will recheck that it's in position to make the connection. Load and save also didn't fix it permanently. What is weird is, it charges to 1-2k and then discharges, back and forth, and also the circuits rather than the transformers seem to be the problem: if I disconnect the circuit from one non-working transformer and connect it to one at full charge, it will rapidly discharge and stay at zero. Vice-versa, the non-working transformer now connected to a different circuit works fine. What gives? I've also checked power generation and am well in surplus.
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Sep 23, 2019 09:45
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canepazzo posted:Load and save also didn't fix it permanently. What is weird is, it charges to 1-2k and then discharges, back and forth, and also the circuits rather than the transformers seem to be the problem: if I disconnect the circuit from one non-working transformer and connect it to one at full charge, it will rapidly discharge and stay at zero. Vice-versa, the non-working transformer now connected to a different circuit works fine. What gives? Might be the nature of demand on that circuit. What's connected to it? If demand is high enough, the transformer might never charge.
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Sep 23, 2019 10:23
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Try attaching a smart battery to each transformer on the output side, then run automation to the transformer so it disables the transformer when said battery is full. This should take a couple of the transformers off the line load at any given time. This also has the added benefit of eliminating any heat produced by the transformer while disabled. My current setup as an example:    A bonus room screenshot I'm not really sure how I took: 
Mazz fucked around with this message at 12:40 on Sep 23, 2019 |
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Sep 23, 2019 12:25
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Aethernet posted:Might be the nature of demand on that circuit. What's connected to it? If demand is high enough, the transformer might never charge. Load is 1450, a shutoff, a pump and an aquatuner. All wire is conductive. There are transformers down the line attached to the same heavy watt wire with 1600-1800 load, who are constantly full. Mazz posted:Try attaching a smart battery to each transformer on the output side, then run automation to the transformer so it disables the transformer when said battery is full. This should take a couple of the transformers off the line load at any given time. This also has the added benefit of eliminating any heat produced by the transformer while disabled. E: actually, after a few seconds, that seems to have done the trick; transformer goes full charge till the battery is at 100%, then shuts off, battery drains to 20% as set up by automation then charges again. Cheers! canepazzo fucked around with this message at 15:11 on Sep 23, 2019 |
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Sep 23, 2019 14:55
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What is the progression on power production in the mid game? I've been using coal generators but my nearby reserves are drying up and I haven't been able to get hydrogen working with the tiny pockets nearby my base.
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Sep 24, 2019 21:26
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